Kathaksung's Super Fun Happy Thread ^_^

[kathaksung]

1. Winner's gain is from loser's.

A farmer planted a seed. He sold the fruit The famer created a wealth.
A worker produced a car. He sold the car. He creates a wealth.

Investor A bought one hundred shares at 1.00/share. The company got one hundred dollars to pay rent, wage and material. Then the stock market rose to peak. Investor A sold the share at 1.10/share to investor B. A got 110 dollars. He made a 10% profit. But was that 10 dollars created? No. it was B's loss. When B bought the stock from A, he became a potential loser. What he bought was only a piece of paper. He couldn't cash the stock with the company which issued it. What B can do is hoping some one else to take over the potential loss.

Situation 1. If the stock is Enron, then when it went bankruptcy, B's stock worth nothing. Here Company got 100 dollars. A got 10 dollars. B is the loser. He lost 110 dollars. Winners' money is from loser's. It's evidenct.

Situation 2. If the stock is HP, then in trough, the share price may fall to 0.90/share. B sold it to C. B lost 20 dollars. C paid 90 dollars for 100 shares. C sold the stock in peak 2 at 1.20/share to D. Now D becomes a potential loser. If nobody has the will to buy his paper, then the stock worth zero. Now let's see, company got 100 dollars. A sold stock at 1.10/share. he made 10 dollars. B bought at 1.10/share, sold at 0.90/share. B lost 20 dollars. C bought at 0.90/share and sold at 1.20/share. C won 30 dollars. 10(A) + 30(C) + 100 (company) = 20(B loss) + 120 (D's potential loss)

The eqation: Winner's gain(profit) + Capital gain (Company issue the stock) = Losers' loss (loss) + Potential loss (Amount paid by the latest stock holder)

You can see there is no wealth created. How much winner got is how much loser and potential loser lost. And it doesn't include administration fee. (it's about 2 trillion in 10 years period, Re: San Jose Mercury News, 12/17/04) So when Bush say you may get better income in stock market, there must be some people bear the loss for the winner's gain. Whom do you think will be the loser and winner?

(I omit the dividend here. it's similar to interest paid by bank.)

 

[$kelet0r]

Capitalism FTW!!!!!!!

seriously dude bad things happen when you start threads.....like bannings :E

 

[CptStern]

you dont know who you're speaking to ...he's THE conspiracy nut on the internet ..the grandfather of all conspiracy theorists

he's signed up on thousands of forums always posting the same sort of thing ...you really should read some of his stuff ....it's weird to say the least

 

[$kelet0r]

oh but i do sterny i do
google ftw!
he's been banned from here before iirc

 

[kathaksung]

2. Stock is no other than a piece of paper

The value of stock market is supported by continue coming of investment fund. One thing you should know the people who hold the stock is no other then hold a piece of paper. That's a bubble. When no money came, then the bubble will break up.

When you deposit 100 dollars in the bank, you are guaranteed to get that deposit back, plus interest.

When you buy one hundred dollars of shares of a company, you are told you probably get some dividend sometime if business is good. The dividend is not guaranteed. And you can not cash the stock with the company. Because they have spent it to pay rent, wage and equipment already. If you liquidate the company, most time you may get a negative asset. e.g. if it's Microsoft, what they left for you is a program of Windows. UA may have some airplanes. But they always come with a huge debt. What kind of asset do Kodak and McDonald have for the stock they issued? What you hold finally could be a piece of paper. What you hope is someone else would buy that paper from you to take over your potential loss. When people put all their retirement fund in stock market, they are sitting on a big bubble. All they hold is a bunch of paper. One day when people wake up and refuse to behave like a fool, then there will be a collapse of stock market.

What Bush does is to persuade people put their retirement fund into the market to take over the hot potatoes.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Please, mods, don't ban him. Please, for the love of comedy.

So what's your point kathaksung? You don't like the stock market, **** it up the ass and cum all over it.

 

[Solaris]

Or Join Socilaism!!!

 

[kathaksung]

3. The stock price depends on the amount of investment fund.

3. The stock price depends on the amount of investment fund.

If monthly trade stock is 100 shares, ($1.00 each) the investment fund in that month is $110, then the share price will be 1.10 each, it's a 10% rising market. If there is only $90 fund go into the market, then the price will be $0.90 each. A falling of 10%.

More fund is needed to support a growing up market.
For decades, the index of US stock market went upwards. It created a fake phenominon that if you invest in long term, (e.g. 40 years) you got a good return. That's the justification someone like Bush used.

But if you know the above principle(a rising market depends on increasing investment fund) you must know that it was built up artificially. The US stock market growing up at public's pension fund. At first, Different pension fund push up the stock market. Then financial group created mutual fund in 1970s(?) which put your savings into the stock market. When it was not enough they invented "IRA" in 1980s which push another amount of retirement fund into the stock market. Further more, in 1990s, government allowed 401(k) to access the stock market. Wave after wave, Americans' retirement money were pushed into that gambling market. It became a big bubble.

But money was harvested by company and winners already. What public held are only a bunch of papers. When people want to cash their 40 years long savings, (they think they have a bunch of treasures, but that's only a paper value) Who has the ability to take over that big bubble? It needs a lot of new investment fund to support it.

That's why when government exhausted your money by "pension fund investment", "IRA", "401(k)" the last exit is your social security

 

[Stigmata]

So basically, stock wealth is essentially imaginary, and capitalism is unfair.

Agreed, but there are few alternatives.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

He's going to get banned soon.

 

[Beerdude26]

He's going to get banned soon.

Noes don't this guy is hilarious D:

BTW kathaksung did you hear the rumours that Jack Thompson is so angry at video games because he actually has to test certain games for the government, and his angryness is just a cover-up? (He needs to see what games desensitize most)

 

[CptStern]

He's going to get banned soon.

oh but he's so entertaining ..plus how often do we get a real live celebrity at HL2.net?

 

[Sulkdodds]

Noes don't this guy is hilarious D:

QFEDsemicolon D:

 

[15357]

I invest in the stock market in the school breaks, and I made enough money to buy me a copy of BF2 and a copy of BF2:SF.

Ok, thats not much to you people, but when you earn $8 a month w/o the SM, thats a lot.

So, hush you evil lefty conservatively liberal facistic commie.

 

[Pauly]

I get confused wiht his posts. Oh and don't ban him it is entertaining.
What did he do wrong that would ban him?

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Existence, mainly.

 

[dream431ca]

1. Winner's gain is from loser's.

A farmer planted a seed. He sold the fruit The famer created a wealth.
A worker produced a car. He sold the car. He creates a wealth.

Investor A bought one hundred shares at 1.00/share. The company got one hundred dollars to pay rent, wage and material. Then the stock market rose to peak. Investor A sold the share at 1.10/share to investor B. A got 110 dollars. He made a 10% profit. But was that 10 dollars created? No. it was B's loss. When B bought the stock from A, he became a potential loser. What he bought was only a piece of paper. He couldn't cash the stock with the company which issued it. What B can do is hoping some one else to take over the potential loss.

Situation 1. If the stock is Enron, then when it went bankruptcy, B's stock worth nothing. Here Company got 100 dollars. A got 10 dollars. B is the loser. He lost 110 dollars. Winners' money is from loser's. It's evidenct.

Situation 2. If the stock is HP, then in trough, the share price may fall to 0.90/share. B sold it to C. B lost 20 dollars. C paid 90 dollars for 100 shares. C sold the stock in peak 2 at 1.20/share to D. Now D becomes a potential loser. If nobody has the will to buy his paper, then the stock worth zero. Now let's see, company got 100 dollars. A sold stock at 1.10/share. he made 10 dollars. B bought at 1.10/share, sold at 0.90/share. B lost 20 dollars. C bought at 0.90/share and sold at 1.20/share. C won 30 dollars. 10(A) + 30(C) + 100 (company) = 20(B loss) + 120 (D's potential loss)

The eqation: Winner's gain(profit) + Capital gain (Company issue the stock) = Losers' loss (loss) + Potential loss (Amount paid by the latest stock holder)

You can see there is no wealth created. How much winner got is how much loser and potential loser lost. And it doesn't include administration fee. (it's about 2 trillion in 10 years period, Re: San Jose Mercury News, 12/17/04) So when Bush say you may get better income in stock market, there must be some people bear the loss for the winner's gain. Whom do you think will be the loser and winner?

(I omit the dividend here. it's similar to interest paid by bank.)

Well..you figured out how it works...great. How do you think it would work?

Someone has to lose for someone to win...like in hockey. You can't have both teams lose and both teams win..one must lose for the other one to win.

As for the stock market, look what happened to Bre-X. They lied about finding a massive gold mine, and lots of people got millions of dollars....that is, the people who were fortunate enough to sell their shares before Bre-X collapsed. Who was the winner there then? The people of course (who sold their shares).

I Don't see this as a very hard concept.

As for Bush and his stock market "smartness", He's just blurting out random things. I never listen to politicians anymore.

 

[kathaksung]

4. The reverse point

As I have said, a growing up stock market must be supported by increasing investment fund. A $100 market grew up 10% in first year with $110 investment.Next year, to support a $110 market growing another 10% up, you need $121 new investment fund. And $133 for the third year..... To blow a ballon bigger, you need more air.

That's what happened in past 40 years. It's a process of how babyboomers cast their retirement fund into the stock market. It's a process how babyboomers exchanged their treasure(retirement fund) with papers (stock shares). When I said potential losers hold a bunch of papers, I mean the stock paper may lose value any time. (Unlike the certificate of CD which banks guarantee to cash or Grand deed of a house that you have a house, no one has obligation to cash your stock certificate, the only interest(dividend) was often cancelled in the name of re-investment by company)

Now it goes to a reverse point. The first generation of babyboomers reach their retirement age, they will not put money in pension fund any more, instead they will cash the stock in their portfolio for their retirement spending. If the market was originally at 10% growing up step, ($100 stock with $110 new investment fund) now it will be a staggering market or a recess market. The new investment fund becomes 105,(due to less retirement fund) the stock for sale becomes $105 (more old people cash their portfolio), then the stock market stagerring with no growing up. Or a recess, $100 new investment fund with $110 selling stock. Market will fall at 10% rate. (depends on retirement rate)

The World War 2 ended in 1945. The first generation of babyboomers were born in 1946. If the legal retirement age was 63, 1946 + 63 = 2009, then starts from 2009, same problem face to Social Security will face to stock market. Less working people contribute to pension fund, more old people to cash portfolio. A long term growing up stock market will become a long term recess market. The fairy tale will break up.

That's why Bush set the date of his privitization of S.S. in 2008. To save the stock market from collapsing. And deliver the bubble at the cost of young people's retirement fund.

 

[Solaris]

Lol Youre back, THERE ALL AGAINST YOU!

 

[Sulkdodds]

I find the above post ironic. Sorry.

 

[Solaris]

I find the above post ironic. Sorry.

Nice one

 

[kathaksung]

5. Bush's privatization plan will endanger S.S. further (5/22/05)

(1) "In the year 2018, for the first time ever, Social Security will pay out more in benefits than the government collects in payroll taxes," Bush said.

So in 2018, it will be a break even year.

If the S.S. payroll tax is $100 in 2008, the actual benefits paid to old people are $90, then there will be $10 surplus fund go to save in current account of S.S. This trend will go on until 2018.

But when Bush's plan is carried out, about one third of S.S.tax will go to the privatization account instead of S.S.current account. The calculation is: 35/42 x 1/3 = 0.27. Here I suppose the working years of people are 42 years.(also the period they pay tax. If their work start from 20 years old to 62 when they retired.) the rate of people who enjoy privatization are 35. years. (20 years old to 55 years old which Bush said enjoying privatization)

So $27 would go to privatization instead of S.S.current account. There is only $73 left to pay retired people while they were promised $90. The $17 shortage will have to take from the S.S. saving portfolio. The break even year will be in 2008 instead of 2018.

Bush should say, "In the year 2008 when my privatization plan goes, for the first time ever, Social Security will pay out more in benefits than the government collects in payroll taxes,"

Bush's plan accelerates the collapse of Social Security and directly endanger the old people who depends on S.S. benefit.

(2) Administration fee. Estimated 2 trillion in ten years period. It will either come from S.S. tax or from an additional tax from all tax payers. One thing for sure is it won't come from the pocket of Bush and his group. Another thing for sure is it will go to the pocket of financial group.

Quote, "Economists opposed to Bush's plan say the 10-year, potential $2 trillion cost of shifting to individual investment accounts is reckless and would require such a huge increase in government borrowing that it could destabilize the nation's economy. " ("Social Security change pitched" Mercury News 12/17/04)

Quote, "Social Security spends 1 percent of its money on administration. But administrative costs for private insurance range between 12 and 14 percent, according to the American Council of Life Insurance. In Chile, which instituted a system of mandatory private savings accounts in the early 1980s, administrative costs exceed 20 percent. This is your money, going straight into the pockets of Wall Street. "

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/504620720?z00m=20239

Before you gamble in Casino, you lose first with a fee about 15% to 20%.

 

[Solaris]

LOL LOL LOL

YOure back, do you even read before you post.

I <3 You!

 

[Sulkdodds]

Well we all know Bush is stupid anyway.
HOLY SHIT DUDE YOU ARE EXPOSING THE CONSPIRACY
OPENING THE EYES OF THE MASSES TO oh wait a minute.

 

[kathaksung]

6. Average investor in stock market (6/2/05)

Everyday, in debate of Social Security privatization, I always encounter with the argument, "Historical, the stock market offered 10% returns over the long haul (40 years)."
Or "average S&P goes up 10.5% each year. In latest two years went up 50%."
It seems there is a strong reason to invest in stock market. 10% return each year, what a brilliant figure. Yet it's a gimmick.

The flaw for this theory is that high return from stock market doesn't mean high return to average investors. But Bush never talked about this. And seldom media talked about this too. One day I finally found a data about the return of average investors. And found why media and government avoid this topic, the most important topic. Read this:

Quote, "Over the past 20 years, the average investor in mutual funds that hold stocks earned almost nothing once inflation was taken into account, even though stocks enjoyed terrific gains.

These are among the results of the 12th annual study of investor behavior by Dalbar, a Boston financial-research firm.

The study found stock-fund investors had returns averaging just 3.7 percent a year from 1985 through 2004, while the Standard & Poor's 500 index returned 13.2 percent a year. Annual inflation averaged 3 percent, chewing up most of the investors' gains." ("Break the buy-high, sell-low pattern" S.J. Mercury News, 5/8/2005)

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/bu...26.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

There did is high grow up of S & P index, there was also a low return for average investors that almost was nothing if considering inflation.

Average people don't care about the high index of S&P. They care about thier return. Where did the money go? It went to the firms which control the market.
To my equation, (suppose the stock is S&P index, oringinal price at $100, in 10 years period)

37 (average investors gain in 10 years) + 95 (special interest group gain in 10 years) + 100 (capital gain of S&P company) = 232 (price paid by potential loser after 10 years)

One thing I should remind you that this is the result of mutual fund. Though there was little gain, the average investors haven't lost its capital because the fund was managed by expert. What if there is a real "privatization", average investor does it individually?

Here is a story again seldom to be reported.

Re: This is a problem that is beginning to be recognized. Since 1964 Nebraska offered state employees the chance to manage their 401(k)-type plan. Extensive employee education and training seminars were given, and everyone expected outstanding investment returns. But when the state audited the program in 2000, the results were incredibly discouraging: employees were making bad investment after bad investment. So in 2003, Nebraska eliminated employee choice from its 401(k) plan.

From: NewCartesian

http://forums.washingtonpost.com/wpforums/messages?msg=2800.351

Hardly a gain (with expert) or a loss (invest by yourself even being trained), that's average investors' encounter in stock market.

The most important thing is this happened in a grow-up market. That more and more pension fund were guided into the stock market. Yet, average investors had such a poor result. What if the trend reversed? (When the fund lured to support stock market is exhausted like what I said in "4. The reverse point"?)

Of course, Bush will never tell you this. Otherwise, how can his group get fatter without your fund joining in?

 

[kathaksung]

A myth about wealth

question, "I don't think your equation works very well at all.
It is like owning a house. If you do some landscaping and renovations, and keep up with repairs, your house will likely appreciate in value over time. This does not mean you have benefited at the expense of anyone else. Investing in stocks works the same way. The company reinvests most of its profits in expansion and improvements; if they do this wisely then the company will grow in value. It is not the zero sum game that you suggest it is."

-----------

Answer: You still haven't told us how the wealth created in winners' gain. The sample you given is a misleading of company's activity with stock trading. A company of course must work hard to earn a profit so it can distribute dividend to investors. They plant, produce, or do a house repair as you said. It doesn't related to stock trading. The wealth company created was used to distribute dividend. When you said company reinvested its profit in business, that means company diverted the dividend investor deserved to re-investment. You know there had been a period that Microsoft holding the profit and hadn't distribute the dividends to the stock holders. That is typical story fits your "company grow in value". But it belongs to the category of dividend distribution. I have said the dividend is the same thing like interest paid by bank to its investors. There is totally nothing related to the profit gain in stock trading. If you want to know where the profit of winners came from, go to my eqation. It is from the losers and potential losers. Or you show me where it came from.

My equation: Profit( stock winners gain)+ Capital gain(Company issued stock) = Loss(losers) + Potential loss (One who hold the stock)

Or to satisfy you: Profit(stock winners gain) + Capital gain (Company issued stock) + Capital gain 2 (Company re-invest with money originally should be used as dividend) = Loss (losers) + Potential loss (One who hold the stock) + Loss (Investor loss of dividend)

That Capital gain (company re-investment) is always equal to Investors' loss of dividend. It should belong to the category of dividend. (I omitted it because it is similare to interest)

 

[$kelet0r]

he's back \0/
but what the hell is his point (re above - yes i read it, its shorter than usual) - its like watching an episode of Lost and constantly wondering wtf is going on :|

 

[Sulkdodds]

It's far better than Lost.

 

[kirovman]

heh, just ban him. it's not as if he's an active participant in discussion.. :O

 

[CptStern]

he's back \0/
but what the hell is his point (re above - yes i read it, its shorter than usual) - its like watching an episode of Lost and constantly wondering wtf is going on :|

that's the thing with kathasung ..it's almost like he's writing a book and posting it one bit at a time, out of sequence and in a foreign language using a font that's only readable if you stand on your head on an 65 degree angle while facing east on a moonless night in the southern hemisphere during the summer soltice :E

 

[$kelet0r]

i never knew you were a poet too sterny :O

 

[CptStern]

only on the first monday in the second month of even numbered years

 

[Sulkdodds]

Ballad of the Running Man

*

Full fathom five your Bleistein lies
Under the flatfish and the squids.

Graves' Disease in a dead jew's eyes!
Where the crabs have eat the lids

- NAZI undertones in TS Elliot's The Waste Land.
Even poetry is not safe from Them.

*

The willow waved against the window on the day they came for me.
Wind-whipped and weathered by the wailing of uncommon storm.
I'd thought it strange when morning dawned with trails of sickly white and grey write large across a sky oft clearer than the clearest sea.

Commencing Operation Thunderflash. Open bomb-bay doors!
When steel blackbirds dropped their loads of rain like liquid death
I ran for cover as hails the size of grapefruits joined the pour
And struggled through my shattered porch as windows smashed, my breath
Now ragged, like my lungs were going to pop.
They're after me and they're not going to stop.

Stumbling through the stricken hall with colder napalm raining down
Than in my days in nam but just as deadly as the fire
My ferns and plants grasped at my clothes. The cheeseplant wore a frown.
Everything had turned against me and my plight, I knew, was dire.
Bounding down the basement stares a-hop
They're after me and they're not going to stop.

Not tinfoil because that quite plainly doesn't work at all.
The paranoid's wallpaper of choice but I knew better - yes.
'twas polymer and AMR that stretched across my wall.
But soon as I had slammed the door, the air began to hiss.
The phantom rays that nothing and no-one can hope to block.
They're after me and they're not going to stop.

Scalar waves. My greatest fear and THEM's most bastard ploy.
Malignant use of quantum fluctuations in the flow.
Non-symmetrical regauging void - it's not a toy.
Bullshit? Just be very glad you don't know what I know.
Faraday cages, eh? Christmas presents they are not.
They're after me and they're not going to stop.

My mind was being ripped apart by forces from within
And I knew there wasn't long before it popped like a balloon.
But struggling hard I grabbed and donned my safety-hat of tin
Somewhere above I heard the footsteps of the agents in my room.
My secret passage! That is how I will evade the cops.
They're after me and they're not going to stop.

And now, half-dead or dying in a sewer-smelling boat
Stuffed full of Mexicans and border-rats that reek of scrotal sweat,
I've dumped my every scrap of cash into a hobo's coat
They might activate the isotopes and kill me stone-cold dead.
In the local precinct men in suits have set up shop
They're after me and they're not going to stop.

(Have you seen what radiation from one dollar does a man?
In Soviet Russia workers called it 'Chernobyl Suntan'.)

Here now I lie listening to the roaring buzzing beat
The music of black helicopters circling overhead
I ponder fate. I've got no weapons 'gainst all their deceit.
And now I don't exist because I bit the hand that fed.
Night falls on my ghost. I want to go to sleep.
They've deleted me from databanks; shorn from the ranks of sheep.

*

I want to tell you all about the truth.
Now listen good.
It's rare indeed that I am understood.

To start with, take everything you think you know about society.
And stab it through the throat and cast it screaming to the sea.
The bullshit that they feed you (sometimes quite literally)
Has no relation to the truth of our reality.

Is beaty truth?
Is truth beaty?
They won't let you see.

To rhyme is not quite yet a crime
But they would like it be.

To start: Iraq is oil.
Israel has weapons, tesla coils the likes of which you've never seen
and Doctor Breen is real.

Japan is in secret ruled by a consortium
Of Godzilla and Mothra and a dozen more besides
And inside Mount Fuji the Iron Giant hides.

Russia sank a cargo ship off Estonia
Carrying a prototype satellite engine that utlised intersection magnetic fields for means of propulsion.
But the government hushed it up with the emulsion
of secrets and of lies.

The third world is how they want it
for purpose of control
And Reagan was responsible for the collapse of coal.

Conspiracy theories make me laugh
They're fiction; nothing more
than lies spread by the government to distract us from the war.

The war is being waged in every molecule and atom of our cities and our towns - but the truth is out of bounds. The war is being waged not for oil or for resource but for human minds and in due course they'll reap exactly what they've sown.

We're fuel; we're bombs; we're bits and cogs. To them we're nothing more
Than resources in their infernal war.

By using mark-ed money they can track us through their land.
Through mayors and cops and governments we're putty in their hands.
This thing is bigger than U.S. or even than the West.
And millions will do anything at their slightest behest.

The foods we eat contain all drugs to make us compliant.
Active trackers and poisons to stop our defiance.
Radio rays of a certain wave or certain frequency
Will bring every consumer of food stocks to their knees.

The alphabet was put in place to stifle abstract thought.
It is our natural talent but now it comes to naught.
Numbers too and maths as well stop our fertile brains
From figuring out their grand plan. They're keeping us insane.

Karl Marx. John F. Even Martin King.
Malcom X and Ghandi and Pinter and 'the bling'
They're all just plants or agents of the all-powerful Them.
Don't trust a word they've every said or anything again.

Like layers in an onion, like pages full of charts
Like veils or curtains billowing before a person part
Every time you think you've found the truth behind it all
They're something else behind it; that's where the shots are called.

No matter how deep you go
They'res always something more behind
Who really runs the show?

I don't think I'll ever know.

Behind the U.S. government is the Christian Church.
Behind that the Vatican; on and on I searched
Until I found the highest of the highest of the high
All governments doth answer to the Illuminati.

(the I is pronounced 'eye'. It's just one other thing
They lied to you about.)

Behind that still is something more; something not quite of here.
Aliens or maybe God or maybe something quite another world apart
All I know is cold and cruel intelligence. No heart.

*

I'm dying now.
And crying now.

The EM waves or SPECTRES round me fly
Disjointed-
-fractured. And killing me a piece by piece. Time
To die.

The threads of my mind are ripping apart from inside out
So here's my epitaph and let them scrall
- the truth will out
- I have no doubt.

(I've seen things you wouldn't believe.
perhaps not C-Beams glittering off the shoulder of orion
But worse than that and more besides.
E squared equals ION.)

Pull those tortured neurons into one last final push to say coherently what must be said -

If you find this message they're already after you.
And if you truly understand there's nothing you can do.
The forces ranged against you are nigh-on unstoppable
But fight we must. For if not you
Who else will heed the call?

This is your quest. This is your goal.
I cannot lust much longer but I'll sure as hell make sure my work
Is carried on in whole.

Crusade. Reveal the truth to all
It is the noblest cause.
The people must know the darkness waiting for the time to fall
The time to strike
Unsheath its claws.

Your greatest enemy is not the Vatican, St.Paul
Or aliens from zogon 5 - no that's not it at all
It is not the freemasons or giant monster clams
It's those who won't open their eyes
It is your fellow man
Those who will not hear or see.
who cannot see the sham
The blind who will in shallow lie
When we reach the promised land.

For great justice you must fight.
The closest thing to holy light
that still exists in this ****ed-up ball of rock and flame.

Here my words
hear my wors
and sure yuo mark tehm well
(my mind is breaking up now so
forgive me i cant spell

- Speak in fractured english and never make no sens
that's sure-fire way for satellits to show to governments
the codewords and the buzzowrds that they plucked from internet
instead just make up all yor worse or speak like some mad foreign guy
from china or tibet.

- Never stay on one IP for any time to long
nor stay on one website enough to hear the other's song
yours is a lonely quest you cannot intereact
with fools an heathens who might asks you to reveal to them your facts

- if somuyn1 bans you from a site upon the internits
it's not yor fault but governments
they want to see your tits
no that's not right I mean to say
THEY WANT YOU DAED DEAD DED.

one day the world might just be free
of this grand conspiracy
until then it's your holy cause to carry on what i have wrought in ym tortured time
upon this earth.

now I lie DYING
GHOSTS OF -------------------#
around me FLYING
you must carry on my work.
you must carry on my cause.
you must carry on my quest
truly tis the noblest more
so than any god can give
nor any government
just mark these words and burn the message
after you have spent
your eyes upon my wisdom
not alarmist odl bulsshit but
FACTS these are the FACTS
you cannot deny that
you can't deny m,e what ive done
to blow this whole thing wide opun
to try and take it one more step
into the lights
into the eyes
of millions who deserve to knoe my truth
the elite cannot remain aloof
for long.
must not remain above
for long
the net will not be free for long
SO GET THE WORD OUT WHILE YOU CAN
they'll tell you it's all bullshit but
they're WERONG.
they cannot take away rom you
they cannot take away from I
they cannot take away from us the light that's in our eyes
and in our hearts and minds
they can't stop or shut up us

So do not let them silence you.
The world will tremble
Before the Truth.
Of Everything

I race
I raccing towards it
i can see it now as my mind turns to dust and ashes to ashes to ashes to dust
spreading the atoms and coming one with all around me seeing now
I see the truth
i see it now
it's in front of me so close that i
could reach and touch it
reach and touch it
reach

i see it now in everything
i see it now
i see it
I see-
I see-
I-
-
!

 

[15357]

That was long.

D:

 

[kathaksung]

S.S. is Social security not Social risk

heh, just ban him. it's not as if he's an active participant in discussion.. :O

It fits you better. You don't have an opinion. You don't contribute anything with content. You only throw stones at others.

-------

S.S. is Social security not Social risk

BOOMERJEFF said,
"Your equation leaves out the human creativity/innovation/invention/management element.

For example, Cell phone Co may have invested $1 million on R&D to develop the ability to take pictures. They may invest $2 million in a factory to make the new phones that take pics.

.....

So, the $3 milion invested in the picture phones could generate much more profit than $3 million invested in phone-only phones, or $3 million invested in improved pots and pans, or $3 million invested in improved lawn mowers. Thus, the market value - not your theoretical book value - of the picture cell phone stock will rise many times as much as the market value of stock in the phone-only cell company, or stock in the pots & pans company or stock in the lawn mower co.

===========

When the debate starts, I always encounter with arguments like above one. It used to be:
1. They use unique sample to cover all.
2. Businees belong to dividend category but they mix it with stock trading.

My Answer

1. A new technique will make big money, that's true. It used to be invested by V.C. (venture capital). When one such technique succeeded, there may be 9 others failed. V.C. may invested in 10 companys with one million each. One company succeeded and 9 others failed. The average return is still flat.

Or in stock market, 10 people invested, one made high return like you said, the others suffer a lost you don't mention at. The average return you avoid to talk is still low.

As a matter of fact, it's like the propaganda of gamble business. They say every week there is a millionare prize winner. That the critics neglected the lucky element(in your word, "creativity/innovation/invention/management element.)

Here we talk about average return. Not a lottery. And that average return of stock market for ordinary people is almost nothing consider to inflation. I have that fact in message "6. Average investor in stock market" in this forum.

2. The profit still came from potential loser.

In your sample. If the stock price went up 5 times to the original one and you sold all the stock, then to my equation: 12 million (profit gain by original investor)+ 3 million ( Capital gain of phone company)= 15 million (potential loss of new investors who bought the stock)

Remember the profit gain in stock market is always from the buyer. Because however a company successful the money paid to stock trading is always from the stock buyer (potential loser) not the company.

Then you may ask where is the value created by "human creativity/innovation/invention/management element" goes?

It reflects in dividend distribution. And it used to be a flatened one because such success is always be in consideration when the stock was issued. In another word, the profit was gained by inventors and VC capitalist. (VC capitalist must average the profit with other failed cases) Have you ever heard a company paying dividend equal to its stock price, or even 50% of it? So far as I know, the average dividend is close to the rate of interest bank paid to its customers.

Of course, I always talk about average not lottery or unique accidence. Social Security is a system to guarantee most people have a minimum income when they retired. Not to put them in a risk life when they get old.

 

[kirovman]

It fits you better. You don't have an opinion. You don't contribute anything with content. You only throw stones at others.

I was turned off by the pompous and pretentious style in which you post on these forums. Granted, that reputation may have been fostered by other members here, and not yourself, however, I disagree with your style of posting, going away for weeks on end, and returning to resurrect your old posts without addressing anyone's points. Hence my accusation of your feeling of self-importance.

If that's not true, I apologise.

However, I am suprised to have recieved a reply, I feel honoured.

 

[kathaksung]

I was turned off by the pompous and pretentious style in which you post on these forums. Granted, that reputation may have been fostered by other members here, and not yourself, however, I disagree with your style of posting, going away for weeks on end, and returning to resurrect your old posts without addressing anyone's points. Hence my accusation of your feeling of self-importance.

If that's not true, I apologise.

However, I am suprised to have recieved a reply, I feel honoured.

I am sorry my posting style bother you that much. But do I have to come everyday to favour you? I think it is absurd to make such a censure. Everybody has the freedom to post in his way. That's their basic right. Until you create a new law to rule the posting style, I reserve the right to post in my way.

I wish to see your contribution to discuss instead of these ridiculous censure.

----------

7. The point is they need fund to save stock market (6/20/05)

In my illustration equation in message 6: (based on fact that the return of average investor was 3.7%, and average return of S&P was 13.2% each year)

37 (average investors gain in 10 years) + 95 (special interest group gain in 10 years) + 100 (capital gain of S&P company) = 232 (price paid by potential loser after 10 years)

to maintain a high return rate in stock market, special interest group needs more and more fund. In that equation, it's the amount 232 paid by potential losers. Next year, to maintain a 13.2% grow up rate, they need 262 new fund from potential losers. So far it works well becasue they successfully guided the pension fund, then IRA, then 401(k) into the market. But once those who invested in stock market with their pension fund want to cash their portfolio who has that big money to take over the stock papers? They turn on to your social security.

2018 is the year when paid S.S. tax will be less than the benefit paid to retirees. That's 13 years away. 2042 is the insolvent year for S.S. That's 37 years away. Why Bush is so eager on this issue? Because the stock market will have problem in 2009. That's 4 years away. Bush's privatization plan is not to save Social Security, (on the contrary, it endangers S.S.. See message 5. Bush's privatization plan will endanger S.S. further (5/22/05)) It is to save the stock market. The sacrifice is young people's retirement fund.

Back to my equation, when potential loser paid 232 for a stock paper, the money has gone to the winners' profit gain and company's capital gain already. When potential loser wants to cash his stock paper, who has the money to take it over?

That's why Bush and his accessaries bang the drum to propaganda on "high return in stock market" (it's a gimmick, see message 6. Average investor in stock market) to lure people to invest their money into the stock market to take over the hot potato.

Bush's plan is opposed by majority people. But he tries to play with tricks. whatever the new plan he proposed, one thing is for sure: 1. He needs money(fund). 2. The money is from Social Security fund. 3. And that fund will be put into the stock market to save it from collapsing.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The entire concept of "money" is that we give things imaginary value and then trade them.
So, other that describing how capitalism works, what is your argument?

I guess I don't understand because I gave up after the third paragraph, two pages back.

Could you repeat yourself?


I'm not a moderator, but I can tell you that you will be banned if you don't start actually interacting with other people in this thread.

Edit:

I google image'd kathkasung and the results may surprise you!
http://www.h6.dion.ne.jp/~yuebing/031102/twins.jpg

 

[kathaksung]

The entire concept of "money" is that we give things imaginary value and then trade them.
So, other that describing how capitalism works, what is your argument?

I guess I don't understand because I gave up after the third paragraph, two pages back.

Could you repeat yourself?


I'm not a moderator, but I can tell you that you will be banned if you don't start actually interacting with other people in this thread.

Edit:

I google image'd kathkasung and the results may surprise you!
http://www.h6.dion.ne.jp/~yuebing/031102/twins.jpg

It's ridiculous how can you come back again if you don't understand and gave it up?

It seems you try to distract or harass by different issue. This thread is about social security not the vague "money".

I say so because you worked to track other's posting and to provoke to ban me. Is that because my comment too true to hurt you or your master Bush? One of his target is to privatize the social security.

 

[CptStern]

mecha is canadian he is not a pawn of bush ..no one is planning to ban you, you yourself will cause it unless you do as mecha suggests