Lack of education

[bliink]

culled from /.

"This rather alarming article discusses a study of high-school students in which they were asked about censorship, protected speech, and other aspects of the first amendment. The results are extremely worrisome: "Only half of the students said newspapers should be allowed to publish freely without government approval of stories." and this "Three in four students said flag burning is illegal. It's not. About half the students said the government can restrict any indecent material on the Internet. It can't.".."

Article it links to is: http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/01/31/students.amendment.ap/index.html

Now, theres a real problem; as I've said before with that damn extract from Alexander Taylor's 1770 book "The cycle of democracy" Apathy and a general dulling of the populations mind is only one step away from totalitarian control.
Anyone read 1984?

I really think the US needs to put alot more effort into their education system rather than filling it with patriotic rhetoric.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Go UK school system!

 

[Tr0n]

Well back at my old high school there was bearly any "patriotic rehetoric"...hell most people didn't even give a damn about the goverment.

 

[bliink]

Well back at my old high school there was bearly any "patriotic rehetoric"...hell most people didn't even give a damn about the goverment.

heh.. well, i've gotta poke if i'm gonna get a discussion going

 

[ComradeBadger]

heh.. well, i've gotta poke if i'm gonna get a flamewar going

Ahhh the Politics forum.

 

[Tr0n]

heh.. well, i've gotta poke if i'm gonna get a discussion going

Yea yea...go on and bash our edu-ma-cation.

You people just love to bash things....it's like a damn contest.

 

[burner69]

Britain ain't much better. Lot's of people only watch soaps and read celeb mags - sometimes maybe The Sun. That's their education with regards politics and world issues.

The education system ain't too bad, I don't think.

But yes, dulling the population to just accept opinions is a very sly way to control them. Don't like it much.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Trust me, the education system sucks. General Studies. Pah.

 

[Tr0n]

Sooooooo....whose gonna start the flame war?Is it gonna have to be me?

 

[Gray Fox]

Britain ain't much better. Lot's of people only watch soaps and read celeb mags - sometimes maybe The Sun. That's their education with regards politics and world issues.

The education system ain't too bad, I don't think.

But yes, dulling the population to just accept opinions is a very sly way to control them. Don't like it much.

Same thing here in holland, it's not the US alone.

 

[bliink]

we're all heading that way I guess... its the natural progression of government.

 

[Tr0n]

Yep we are screwed....I can sense WW3 is coming soon.

Who wants to join me in my bunker?

 

[bliink]

Hmm.. do you have playstation?

 

[Tr0n]

Hmm.. do you have playstation?

Well I'll have one if you give me some money.

 

[Steve]

I've never been in an American school filled with "patriotic rhetoric", but I agree that our education system needs an overhaul, as I've already posted in several threads in the politics forum.

 

[Tr0n]

So...I guess we shut this thread down quickly.

Sowwy bliink.

 

[Steve]

A thread got derailed and I wasn't involved?

 

[seinfeldrules]

The article is a lie. The gov't can damn well censor child porn from the internet. Its not the kids' faults that they know more than the CNN pollster.

 

[The Mullinator]

Well I'll have one if you give me some money.

Bah! Once we actually need to get into bunkers do you really think money will be your main method of getting what you want?

I propose mass looting. Its good fun and it gets the blood going! :naughty:

 

[Steve]

Bah! Once we actually need to get into bunkers do you really think money will be your main method of getting what you want?

Yes! The system of exchange will be what it was always meant to be! Oral sex and fights!

 

[bliink]

The article is a lie. The gov't can damn well censor child porn from the internet. Its not the kids' faults that they know more than the CNN pollster.

Actually, the US can't. The only power they have is in shutting down servers on US soil that have illegal content (child porn) on them. They can't go and shut down sites in other countries (in any simple way) and they can't enforce any blocking/censoring of the internet on an ISP level (like China does, with its national firewall).

 

[seinfeldrules]

Actually, the US can't. The only power they have is in shutting down servers on US soil that have illegal content (child porn) on them.

So the US can shut down servers with obscene content. The pollster said the US had no right to do so. The statement seemed rather vague and I dont blame the students for taking advantage of that.

 

[Kangy]

Seinfeld, you're clearly not thinking sensibly here. Kids who don't know what their most basic of rights are extremely unlikely to hold an educated opinion on the censorship of the internet.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I disagree -- these kids probably knew more then any basic pollster. I mean, in the most usual case -- a pollster will delete his web cookies and will keep submitting a number.

I think thats a representation of someone, who knows his rights, and knows how to take advantage of them. Not cool.

 

[The Monkey]

You probably should spend more on you education. A swedish 12-year old knowns the US geaography better than an american 12 year-old. I've heard that from a lot of sources, but I can't swear that it's true.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Britain ain't much better. Lot's of people only watch soaps and read celeb mags - sometimes maybe The Sun. That's their education with regards politics and world issues.

The education system ain't too bad, I don't think.

But yes, dulling the population to just accept opinions is a very sly way to control them. Don't like it much.

i never watch soaps, nor get the papers like the sun or any other.
i hate the media, they all twist things, and make things out differently than they seem (eg. iraq war). The only news i read is on here.

the onlt other one i can trust is BBC News :angel:

definately not al jazeera, too biast.

 

[Kangy]

Kore, I don't want to make this seem like a personal attack or anything, because it isn't, but why do you seem to state that Al Jazeera is biased every time a media outlet is mentioned? There are others equally biased...

Anyway, back on topic. It's true. The most read newspaper in the UK is The Sun. What does The Sun contain? Celebrity news, a topless bird, a few coupons and some Murdoch friendly news.

Ah, how wonderful.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Kore, I don't want to make this seem like a personal attack or anything, because it isn't, but why do you seem to state that Al Jazeera is biased every time a media outlet is mentioned? There are others equally biased...

Anyway, back on topic. It's true. The most read newspaper in the UK is The Sun. What does The Sun contain? Celebrity news, a topless bird, a few coupons and some Murdoch friendly news.

Ah, how wonderful.

i understand completely, nothing i say is meant to offend anyone either.

but al jazeera stirs hatred agains the west.
damn.. i know FOX is biast, but it isnt half as bad as al jazeera, because of them, people (over-time) hate westerners, more and more, and that could ruin everything.

its gonna make the people of iraq turn from trying to make thier country free, to making them hate americans and rebel , causign many more innocent deaths...

 

[satch919]

I really think the US needs to put alot more effort into their education system rather than filling it with patriotic rhetoric.

Nah! We'd rather spend billions on developing things that kill people rather than educating the future of America. Who needs reasoning and logic when you have nukes and the strongest military force the world has known? A stupid populace is easier to control.

 

[Bodacious]

Nah! We'd rather spend billions on developing things that kill people rather than educating the future of America. Who needs reasoning and logic when you have nukes and the strongest military force the world has known? A stupid populace is easier to control.

We'd also rather scapegoat and pass the buck instead of acknowledging the problem for what it is.

Education is primarily a states issue, for one. Second, teachers and parents are responsible for their children's learning, not the government. Sure, the gov should aid impoverished and needy schools/children, but cash means nothing when the parents don't enforce morals, values, and doing what is right.

And last, who controls Acadamia? Liberals do. So who does your statement of, " a stupid populace is easy to control," apply to? Blame conservatives/republicans if you want, they aren't doing much at all, but liberals are the ones with the people on their ground passing on the knowledge.

 

[Steve]

We'd also rather scapegoat and pass the buck instead of acknowledging the problem for what it is.

Education is primarily a states issue, for one. Second, teachers and parents are responsible for their children's learning, not the government. Sure, the gov should aid impoverished and needy schools/children, but cash means nothing when the parents don't enforce morals, values, and doing what is right.

And last, who controls Acadamia? Liberals do. So who does your statement of, " a stupid populace is easy to control apply to." Blame conservatives/republicans if you want, they aren't doing much at all, but liberals are the ones with the people on their ground passing on the knowledge.

Yup. Actually, if I remember, the County/Parish government is responsible for establishing and controlling the schools. Your points are spot on, though.

 

[Bodacious]

if I remember, the County/Parish government is responsible for establishing and controlling the schools.

That is probaby the most correct statement that could be made about who has control over the schools. I am only educated on the Texas school system and I know the state has a say in making sure the publich schools get a fair stake in the taxes colleced.

 

[bliink]

So the US can shut down servers with obscene content. The pollster said the US had no right to do so. The statement seemed rather vague and I dont blame the students for taking advantage of that.

"Obscene content" is protected by the 1st ammendment, the content must be Illegal before it can be removed.
The govt has no right to remove any of those disgusting fetish pages (well, most of them) because they dont break any laws.
Child porn is illegal because it shows the exploitation/abuse of children, and therefore, the servers can be removed.

If the government decides one day that "obscene" content can be censored, then pick up a gun and start shooting- "obscene" would be the perfect fuzzy-word to label basically anything- first it would be stuff the people agree with (most of them), so all the nasty "philias" would go, then it might be bomb making stuff, then maybe violent content, then stuff thats "dangerous to national security" eg, foreign anti-us sites, news sites, etc, then "dangerous to national stability" eg, the homepage of the democrats P) hehe.. a bit extreme, yeah, but I'm trying to show how far they could go (gradually) with no 1st ammendment to stop them.

 

[The Dark Elf]

"Obscene content" is protected by the 1st ammendment, the content must be Illegal before it can be removed.
The govt has no right to remove any of those disgusting fetish pages (well, most of them) because they dont break any laws.
Child porn is illegal because it shows the exploitation/abuse of children, and therefore, the servers can be removed.

If the government decides one day that "obscene" content can be censored, then pick up a gun and start shooting- "obscene" would be the perfect fuzzy-word to label basically anything- first it would be stuff the people agree with (most of them), so all the nasty "philias" would go, then it might be bomb making stuff, then maybe violent content, then stuff thats "dangerous to national security" eg, foreign anti-us sites, news sites, etc, then "dangerous to national stability" eg, the homepage of the democrats P) hehe.. a bit extreme, yeah, but I'm trying to show how far they could go (gradually) with no 1st ammendment to stop them.

Sounds like its turning into something like those old witch hunts we used to have over here, ahhh I miss those days, burning witches or dropping them in the river to see if they'd float, then we'd all go have a big feast and get merry and drunk and sing songs of jollity.

 

[GiaOmerta]

The problem isnt the education system.

It's the parents.

 

[satch919]

We'd also rather scapegoat and pass the buck instead of acknowledging the problem for what it is.

Education is primarily a states issue, for one. Second, teachers and parents are responsible for their children's learning, not the government. Sure, the gov should aid impoverished and needy schools/children, but cash means nothing when the parents don't enforce morals, values, and doing what is right.

And last, who controls Acadamia? Liberals do. So who does your statement of, " a stupid populace is easy to control," apply to? Blame conservatives/republicans if you want, they aren't doing much at all, but liberals are the ones with the people on their ground passing on the knowledge.

Yes, I can agree with you on a few points. The states do have a lot of say in the education system and it does differ from state to state. However, our system is lacking the funds that it needs. I remember while I was in high school, I couldn't take the text books home because there wasn't enough to go around so we had to cover tons of material in one class period. We had to share books. One for every four kids. By the time i finally graduated, we had barely got some decent computers.

We need to train more qualified teachers. I swear, some of the teachers were just there to pick up a pay check and thats it. Other teachers were just terrible at teaching the material. Often times there would be 40+ students in one class. Thats not a suitable learning environment. The teacher has little control over the classroom.

I agree that just throwing money at it won't solve the problem. The parents have to be more responsible as well. More disciplinary action needs to be given to the teachers. There are too many kids who get away with whatever the hell they want because they know that the teacher has little power over them. However, lets face it some kids don't grow up in the greatest home environments. Morals and values aren't taught to them. If they don't get it from home, where are they going to get it from? The schools would be a good starting point, right?

Yeah, I suppose the liberals do control some aspects of the system. Im not a liberal nor am I a conservative so I have no problem saying that some changes need to be made if its being run by Democrats or Republicans. If the liberals are the ones to blame, fine. But i think it goes even further than just political parties. Just to be fair though, Bush hasn't supported his No Child Left Behind Act. Mr. Schwarzenegger, my governor, decided that he wants to cut some of the money thats going to schools to support some other plans of his. Not only that but he raised tuition at colleges. So its not just the liberals fault. Both parties are guilty.

My comment about a stupid populace encompasses everyone. Uneducated people are easy to sway. They might not pursue the facts and knowledge that normal educated people would. They might not have gained the necessary skills to determine what is true and what is false.

 

[Steve]

The problem isnt the education system.

It's the parents.

BullSHIT. Or down here in Louisiana, at least. The education system is crap. It's not the parent's responsibility to teach geography (etc.), now is it?