Libertarian Party

[Tr0n]

I was wondering if there is anyone else here that supports the US Libertarian Party other then me? For those that don't know what the Libertarian Party is, check these links:

http://www.lp.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)
http://www.lpedia.org/index.php/Main_Page (they have their own wiki)

Note I said US Libertarian Party. Canada also has a Libertarian Party as well does Australia and a few other countries. Whether or not they're the same as the US one, I don't know.

Anyways, it's weird. I use to be a centrist now I'm slowly seeing my self support this party.

 

[Sulkdodds]

To be honest, I don't agree with their stance on charities and social security (nor do I agree with their apparent policy of letting corporations have completely free reign) - but I like that their political quiz doesn't criticize any of the answers you can get - there's no "you're a blah blah blah - a stupid and incoherent ideology - and they're a damn sight better than what their political compass defines as "conservative".

 

[Ikerous]

I was really close to registering libertarian but I just can't imagine a society without government back social policies
(No disability, unemployment, social security, medicare, minimum wage, safe work enviroments, 40 hour work weeks, etc)

Although the ideas of maximizing personal freedoms and limiting the governments involvement in personal affairs I couldn't agree with more

 

[delusional]

i'll probably register as libertarian when i turn 18

 

[Tr0n]

Yea I don't really agree with those things you both listed as well, but other then that I'm for everything else. Hell iccy, they even believe in legalizing marijauna.

 

[Ikerous]

Yea I don't really agree with those things you both listed as well, but other then that I'm for everything else. Hell iccy, they even believe in legalizing marijauna.

Ya that's one of the reasons I love the party
It's part of their 'What consenting adults do in their own homes is their own business' policy

I'm currently registered green. It was as close as I could come to finding a party that mixed civil libertarianism with strong social programs. Although a large portion of the democratic party is made up of strong civil libertarians as well. I'd be more than happy with a civil libertarian democratic candidate. (As a civil libertarian they would maximize personal freedoms, but being a democrat they'd hold onto the social programs that keep a society stable). The way I view myself switches between libertarian, green and democrat constantly :|

 

[CptStern]

I was wondering if there is anyone else here that supports the US Libertarian Party other then me? For those that don't know what the Libertarian Party is, check these links:

http://www.lp.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)
http://www.lpedia.org/index.php/Main_Page (they have their own wiki)

Note I said US Libertarian Party. Canada also has a Libertarian Party as well does Australia and a few other countries. Whether or not they're the same as the US one, I don't know.

Anyways, it's weird. I use to be a centrist now I'm slowly seeing my self support this party.

nays:

"Opposition to any efforts to restrict gun rights at any level of government."

yays:

"Abolition of laws against victimless crimes (prostitution, driving without a seatbelt, use of controlled substances, etc.)"


just put this guy in office

 

[Ikerous]

Wouldn't owning a gun fall under the category of a victemless crime?

 

[CptStern]

well there wouldnt be any laws against ownership

 

[Ikerous]

Exactly.. if there were laws against owning a gun it'd be a victemless crime
Hence why it'd be bad to have laws against it

 

[DeusExMachina]

I'm a big supporter of the Libertarian Party, considering myself something of a libertarian. I agree with all their social stances and most of their economic stances. They're the perfect party in my opinion.

 

[Tr0n]

I'm all for guns rights. As long as there is some resitrictions of course. Like having to be a certain age, checks of your criminal record (if you have one), and so on.

I'm a big supporter of the Libertarian Party, considering myself something of a libertarian. I agree with all their social stances and most of their economic stances. They're the perfect party in my opinion.

Yea, I wouldn't say they're perfect, but they sure are damn close. If they supported goverment backed social programs as iccy stated, then they would be perfect.

 

[CptStern]

Exactly.. if there were laws against owning a gun it'd be a victemless crime
Hence why it'd be bad to have laws against it

but owning a gun isnt a vctemless crime ..if I shoot my wife ..well there's a victem right there


disclaimer: Stern does not endorse spousal shootings

 

[Tr0n]

Well if you stab your wife with a knife (oooo rhyme) then they would have to ban knives as well. Many people use/shoot guns for sport or hunting.

 

[delusional]

guns dont kill people, people kill people. screwdrivers are used in many murders should we ban those?
i dont like social programs just because i dont like taxes much but i can live with minimal social programs.

 

[Ikerous]

but owning a gun isnt a vctemless crime ..if I shoot my wife ..well there's a victem right there

Owning a gun =/= shooting someone...

 

[Solaris]

Aye, Chomskys fantastic.

Wtf though at Liberation Party. Abolition of minimum wage!?! Privatising social security?!? It's basically allowing the corperations to get far to much power and to abuse their. workers even more

 

[No Limit]

I like what they are going for but I don't think they apply reason to everything they say. I mean from what I remember learning about them they want no taxes, no police, no firefighters, vritually no national defense, nothing. Pretty much throw out the government and let everyone be on their own, something that would clearly not work in todays society.

Tron, I see you as pretty much liking them because of the personal freedoms they support and you don't really agree with removing the federal government. Am I wrong in that?

 

[delusional]

if you truly believe in freedom then there should be economic freedom not just social. i personally admire hong kongs economic system since its easier to set up a business there due to minimal paperwork and government regulation. i support the laissez faire economic system which libertarians support too

 

[MiccyNarc]

I'm registering as either libertarian or independent in
December when I turn 18

 

[No Limit]

if you truly believe in freedom then there should be economic freedom not just social. i personally admire hong kongs economic system since its easier to set up a business there due to minimal paperwork and government regulation. i support the laissez faire economic system which libertarians support too

So you want to return to pre 1920 times when children worked in sweat shops, the working day was 16 hours, and you got paid almost nothing?

 

[Tr0n]

I like what they are going for but I don't think they apply reason to everything they say. I mean from what I remember learning about them they want no taxes, no police, no firefighters, vritually no national defense, nothing. Pretty much throw out the government and let everyone be on their own, something that would clearly not work in todays society.

Tron, I see you as pretty much liking them because of the personal freedoms they support and you don't really agree with removing the federal government. Am I wrong in that?

Yea pretty close. Also I think they do want those things, they just want the government scaled down some. They do believe in cutting of all taxes. Last I checked, they supported most of the things you listed. LP's just want fewer taxes and less spending on military defense. Which I believe we need to do. Are military budget is what, $437 billion?

Hell, if we was to cut that in half, we could build over 20,000 high schools each costing $5 mil. That's only $100,000,000,000 spent...another $100 bil could get you 20,000 more high schools.


Yea, ya'll get my point right?

 

[Raeven0]

It's great that there is a prominent third party, even if that third party seems a little misguided in how it views business.

A better choice than the Republicans, at any rate.

 

[No Limit]

Yea pretty close. Also I think they do want those things, they just want the government scaled down some. They do believe in cutting of all taxes. Last I checked, they supported most of the things you listed. LP's just want fewer taxes and less spending on military defense. Which I believe we need to do. Are military budget is what, $437 billion?

Hell, if we was to cut that in half, we could build over 20,000 high schools each costing $5 mil. That's only $100,000,000,000 spent...another $100 bil could get you 20,000 more high schools.


Yea, ya'll get my point right?

I don't know, maybe I need to relook at their platform. From what I heard they wanted all taxes gone, I could be confusing them with the consitution party. I'll educate my self and get back to you.

 

[DeusExMachina]

They'd like little to no taxes, yes. Constitution party wants that too, so do a lot of parties.

 

[Tr0n]

It's great that there is a prominent third party, even if that third party seems a little misguided in how it views business.

A better choice than the Republicans, at any rate.

Well every party has a negative about them. It's just what you feel (keyword) you fit best in.

I for one feel like this is the best party, even tho I also feel their business views are a bit misguided.

Right now I'm in hippie mode.

 

[Raeven0]

Well every party has a negative about them.

And so I don't do myself the injustice of party affiliation.

 

[Tr0n]

Oh great scotts, you owned my face in dear lad.

 

[delusional]

libertarians support school vouchers which privatizes schools and the government gives you a check and you choose what school you want to go to. its supposed to encourage schools to compete between one another and improve themselves. im a minarchist which means the government enforces the laws maintains streets and provides fire departments trash desposal among other things similar to that

 

[No Limit]

libertarians support school vouchers which privatizes schools and the government gives you a check and you choose what school you want to go to. its supposed to encourage schools to compete between one another and improve themselves. im a minarchist which means the government enforces the laws maintains streets and provides fire departments trash desposal among other things similar to that

Tron, looking at a number of sources I really wasn't mistaken, this is from their own platform:

We believe that all individuals have the right to dispose of the fruits of their labor as they see fit and that government has no right to take such wealth. We oppose government-enforced charity such as welfare programs and subsidies, but we heartily applaud those individuals and private charitable organizations that help the needy and contribute to a wide array of worthwhile causes through voluntary activities

I remember we had a speaker from that party back in my high school years (at first I thought he might have been from the constitution party, rereading their platform I know thats not the case). I pressed him on the issue of taxation and social services and he made it very clear, his party does not support any taxation by our government which means exactly what I posted above, removing any service our government, federal and local provides. That means police, fire fighters, EMS, everything.

Don't get me wrong, after rereading their platform I do support most of what they stand for but I have to apply common sense to everything they say. And when I do that I'm just a democrat that doesn't follow the democratic line word for word (mostly by supporting the right to bear arms). And I know you would hate to admit it but if you reread the democratic platform you are more of a democrat than a libertarian.

You want to cut military spending, this is a democratic issue.

You want people to be free to smoke pot, this is a democratic issue.

You want people to be free to do harder drugs such as coke and heroin, well that isn't fully in line with the democratic party but those people would not go to jail, they would get help. Something I support as I don't think those drugs that ruin so many lives should be legal, I just dont think there should be prison time for using them.

You want religion out of your government, again a democratic issue.

In fact in your spare time please look over the democratic platform and tell me what you disagree with them on. I think you will find that you don't disagree with them on much of anything.

 

[Tr0n]

Oh, well just because I believe they should tax, doesn't mean I shouldn't join this party.

Some republicans like the views of some democrats and some like the other way around. I believe there should be some taxes and some business restrictions, but just because I dislike only 2 of their views, does not mean this party is not right to me.

As I said, every party can't offer everything.

So shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Biatch.

 

[No Limit]

No it can't, but again I think you would be quite suprised if these people ever got a majority.

Do me a favor and read the democratic platform some time.

 

[delusional]

well i read it and all the things i agreed on is the same with libertarian beliefs. and anyway i dislike progressivism and welfare, i support gun rights unlike democrats. and why does everyone here dislike business, and no i dont think children should be working in factories

 

[Black_Wolf]

meh....this one sucks too.just like the other 2.

 

[theotherguy]

no.

Liberatarianism is basically an excuse for corporations to do whatever the hell they want. I dont like that facet of it at all.

It seems to me that liberatarians are just afraid of any government involvement at all, which gives them the air of backwater gun-nuts.

It's like all of the worst features of conservatism taken to the extreme with a few good liberal ideas thrown into the mix.

The only difference between a liberatarian state and a facist state is who is doing the controlling: For liberatarians, the disguise of freedoms and rights provides solace in a society that would ultimately be controlled by big monopolistic corporations that exploit their workers and the government can't do a damn thing about it.

 

[No Limit]

well i read it and all the things i agreed on is the same with libertarian beliefs. and anyway i dislike progressivism and welfare, i support gun rights unlike democrats. and why does everyone here dislike business, and no i dont think children should be working in factories

You don't think children should be working in factories? But you don't support goverment regulating that? Right? I'm just trying to get all of this straight.

What about rich people having the ability to do insider trading? How about making the work day 10 hours long and the work week 6 days and then moving up gradually from there? And those big oil companies, you are really saying they should be able to get together and price gas at 5, 6, 15 dollars a gallon? How about goverment regulations of the food that you eat. Should business be able to pack meat in dirty, disease infested, enviroments? I could go on but I'll stop right here, do you actally support any of the above? Because the party you claim you support does.

 

[DeusExMachina]

There'd have to be a form of compromise within the party regarding those issues. As much as we'd all like to think we're good people who want to do good, that just isn't it. We need limitations. That's the one of the few faults I see in their economic plans. They want everything to be too free which just isn't possible in this society now.

 

[delusional]

ummm most libertarians support anti-trust laws since monopolies stops competition
and libertarianism roots are in classical liberalism

 

[No Limit]

ummm most libertarians support anti-trust laws since monopolies stops competition
and libertarianism roots are in classical liberalism

Umm, are you reading the same platform I'm reading? Where did you get that from?

And you ignored everything I said except for one small point.

Delusional I suggest you educate yourself about your own party. You are directly contradicting what they are saying. In their own platform they mentioned they want to remove all antitrust laws.

 

[BaconIsGood4You]

I'm actually considering this right now. I'm not a liberterian, especially a Liberterian. I'm about 95% with them, but that 5% is the most critical point. I'm a classic liberal (not in today's FDR use, but liberal like it is used in the rest of the world and like Smith, Locke, etc.), and the point were we differ is that (from my perspective) libertarians do not believe in civic responsibility.

It is my belief, and Locke presents a strong case in his Second Treatise, that inorder to be a citizen, you must appreciate certain responsibilities. Really no one but the strongest anarchist will disagree because as citizens, we accept to not initiate force against another. What Locke says is that citizenship is derived from rational understanding (if not concious) of the rights of others. Thus the deranged, the young, and others are not granted the same privileges as full citizens (vote, etc.) since they cannot or will not grasp these crucial requirements.

The libertarians believe in full legalization of drugs, and this is my biggest disaggreement. While abortion is the more vile (women accepts responsibility to create child who is a unique living human; intelligence/feeling does not matter, babies are not as smart as dogs at birth), it is not based on theory. Drugs that basically create insanity render the user incapable of fufilling their responsibilities. Drugs (alcohol, maybe weed) that cannot be used in realistic moderation should be banned for consumption.

My rationale is not paternalism nor does it make any ethical judgement, it is based solely on a violation of a contract of citizenship.


Anyway, so I don't know if I want to join Republican or Libertarian or none. I would be nice to be able to vote in primaries and steer the parties towards what I would like, but I don't know. I don't like either and would not like to be associated with either (as they are now).