Low energy water fuel cell replication.

clarky003

clarky003

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An electrolysis process using plain tap water, and low electrical inputs to split water into hydrogen and oxygen seems to have the same if not better effects as standard electrolysis.

1997, original inventor Stan Meyers.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JagAv2nUE[/YOUTUBE]

August 2007.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSFpBW8_v8o[/YOUTUBE]

Water Fuel Cell with concentric tubes and using 36 watts. Tap water and no electrolytes. Using pulsed DC impulses.
Click to expand...
 
clarky003 said:
An electrolysis process using plain tap water, and low electrical inputs to split water into hydrogen and oxygen seems to have the same if not better effects as standard electrolysis.

1997, original inventor Stan Meyers.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9JagAv2nUE[/YOUTUBE]

August 2007.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSFpBW8_v8o[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...


at least it's way more plausible than those other things...you know.

on never mind...am i hearing wrong or is he's using zero point energy to split the water?
 
Howcome you keep posting perpetual motion machines or magical energy creators and yet nothing ever comes of any of them and none of them ever stand up to a scientific panel?
 
or because perpetual energy isn't possible and these people are all crackpots. The tap water hydrogen seperator IS perpetual energy, because he claims that he can seperate hydrogen from water using less than the bonding energy of hydrogen. That means if you put the hydrogen through a fuel cell and turn it back into water you have a net energy gain on a closed loop cycle. Therefore magic energy, this guy can't even explain the logic of it except for saying zero point energy.
 
Better to give them a chance, if the claims are true, bingo, free energy. If they are false, point and laugh.

Doing neither and flatly refusing to even give them a chance will only stall progress.
 
When I was reading about the whole Steorn thing, there was a link to common perpetual energy machines and why they don't work. I can't remember a link, but it definately was what Dan's saying.

-Angry Lawyer
 
It's impossible for the same reason everyone can't have a positive kill death ratio on a closed server.
 
Solaris said:
It's impossible for the same reason everyone can't have a positive kill death ratio on a closed server.
Click to expand...

Except in TFC where you get frags for capping. I guess the analogy would be that tapping vacuum energy is like capturing the flag on 2forts. Usually you have to pull some cheap tricks like conc jumps to do it though.
 
Dan said:
Howcome you keep posting perpetual motion machines or magical energy creators and yet nothing ever comes of any of them and none of them ever stand up to a scientific panel?
Click to expand...
I feel ya, it's annoying as **** that all this stuff we're hearing sounds so awesome and shit but in the end its just more crap spewed out of a retard's anus.
 
Everyone who tries to rubbish this always calls it perpetual energy/motion, but it's not. It's akin to a water wheel in a river, aslong as there is flowing water you always have a natural external input, that system is an overunity system like wind turbines are.

The difference here is what we don't understand, the natural energy source that imparts energy into the electron, which has an impact on the energy relationships within the atom. So don't try and distort these discussions with this idea of perpetual motion, because it is just an ignorant response to something that needs to be understood.

To put it in Tesla's words, one day we will attach machinery to the very wheel works of nature. In part that is what could be happening here.
 
clarky003 said:
Everyone who tries to rubbish this always calls it perpetual energy/motion, but it's not. It's akin to a water wheel in a river, aslong as there is flowing water you always have a natural external input, that system is an overunity system like wind turbines are.

The difference here is what we don't understand, the natural energy source that imparts energy into the electron, which has an impact on the energy relationships within the atom. So don't try and distort these discussions with this idea of perpetual motion, because it is just an ignorant response to something that needs to be understood.

To put it in Tesla's words, one day we will attach machinery to the very wheel works of nature. In part that is what could be happening here.
Click to expand...

so you're saying that guy does?

the electron gets it's energy form somewhere else and that keeps it continuously spinning? that's just speculation
 
Oh dear, whip out a university quantum physics book, they always call it 'intrinsic' energy from the quantum vacuum. So it's scientific fact the electron spin is facilitated by the vacuum.

You also have the Casimir effect which relates to the natural quantum energy levels, It's conclusive this universe wouldn't exist if the vacuum wasn't constantly manifesting this energy in the form of what we call virtual particles.
 
clarky003 said:
Everyone who tries to rubbish this always calls it perpetual energy/motion, but it's not. It's akin to a water wheel in a river, aslong as there is flowing water you always have a natural external input, that system is an overunity system like wind turbines are.

The difference here is what we don't understand, the natural energy source that imparts energy into the electron, which has an impact on the energy relationships within the atom. So don't try and distort these discussions with this idea of perpetual motion, because it is just an ignorant response to something that needs to be understood.

To put it in Tesla's words, one day we will attach machinery to the very wheel works of nature. In part that is what could be happening here.
Click to expand...

So basically you're saying that there is an unknown extrenal source of natural energy that Meyer is tapping into by pulsing low current electricity through water. Well, I suppose the car he's building will be the judge of that. If it works, and it really does only need tap water to run, then he's discovered something much bigger that a free source of energy - either an exception to the Conservation of Energy Law, or a new source of free energy. Probably something involving quantum.
 
Well that's the idea anyway, and it certainly would explain alot of the presently unexplainable questions about the universe. The conservation of energy law as we know it never factored in vacuum because it was created at a point in time when everyone thought aether/vacuum was static, but that was proven false with phenomenon like the Casimir effect. What has happened for some reason is laws havn't been updated to include these phenomenon.

So naturally alot of classical 'laws' are not truly applicable to nature as a whole because it's obvious from quantum physics and particle physics that nature doesn't energetically operate in just 3 dimensions. What is presently know is that every electron and potential in the universe right now, all the atoms in the keyboard under your fingers, are supplied with an energy source that maintains the forcefields that constitute what our senses interpret as physical matter, even a rock is 'alive' with energy.
 
clarky003 said:
Oh dear, whip out a university quantum physics book, they always call it 'intrinsic' energy from the quantum vacuum. So it's scientific fact the electron spin is facilitated by the vacuum.

You also have the Casimir effect which relates to the natural quantum energy levels, It's conclusive this universe wouldn't exist if the vacuum wasn't constantly manifesting this energy in the form of what we call virtual particles.
Click to expand...

the Casmir effect and the existence of virtual particles still needs to be verified, and i haven't found the data that an atom gets its intristic energy from vacuum.

but despite this i'm not a quantum physicist, and surely that guy isn't either. Even if this theory is proven true.
 
Do people never actually wonder where all theswe quirky inventions actually go? Look up the whole recent Steorn thing - that's what mostly happens (although, usually with lots more people getting scammed) - they go on and on about it working, and then, push comes to shove, they can't prove it and never try to refute it, or get called out and shown how they've gone wrong. The thing is, that doesn't make a good news story, so never gets reported on - the device just fades away.

Edit: Clarky, with the Casimir effect, there isn't infinite energy being popped out of nowhere - the overall energy in the system still remains the same.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Well it makes sense mathmatically, so there is something there. If you want physical proof just keep an eye on the experiments with that huge particle accelerator. If they find Higgs Bosons it will physically verify a particle that would otherwise be considered virtual, and would verify the existance of a vacuum energy field.

But there's no doubt in my mind that vacuum has to be energetic anyway, to facilitate the quantum and particle phenomena observed it needs to be. It's a conclusion based on logic, for example imagine having no concept of wind and watching a wind mill blade turn from a room kept out of the wind, logically some kind of energy input is there.

With Steorn apparently the bearings were wrist watch bearings and very fragile, and somehow broke from all the testing, so they had to reschedule.
 
There's always been talk about actually using what's at the zero-point energy bit, but actually taking energu out of it would have really bad consequences. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

With Steorn, don't you find it quite amazing that the component that broke - the bearings - could have easily been replaced on the spot, and that instead, Steorn have postponed it INDEFINATELY?

-Angry Lawyer
 
I did a presentation on Quantam theory to my Alevel physics set the other week, it's very interesting, it would appear, everything is ultimately a wave.
 
They don't know what taking extra energy out of the vacuum would be like, but just think of it this way.. the universe appears to naturally extract this energy to keep it functioning, so in essence that energy is constantly being fed into the system, naturally ordering itself.

So you would assume if you were able to take more out locally in pulses it would give time for it to reorder itself. But if it's truely real the source of the energy may have completely different rules to how we understand 'energy' in 3 dimensions.

And the problem here is it appears as if the universe itself is naturally having what we would call a 'free lunch', but only because we don't understand it we label it as that.

We'll just have to wait and see with Steorn, I think they are managing it poorly that's for sure.
 
clarky003 said:
They don't know what taking extra energy out of the vacuum would be like, but just think of it this way.. the universe appears to naturally extract this energy to keep it functioning, so in essence that energy is constantly being fed into the system, naturally ordering itself.
Click to expand...

Actually, the energy started off in the system, and constantly returns to the system. If you took energy out of it, chances are it'd get the energy back from surrounding stuff, resulting in no net gain.

Steorn went to the media with their "findings" before they went to a scientific journal. That says alot about their practices.

-Angry Lawyer
 
Angry Lawyer said:
(although, usually with lots more people getting scammed)
Click to expand...
http://www.steorn.com/orbo/validation/jury_contract.aspx

Steorn asks you to pay 2000? before you can review their machine. Or am I wrong and does Steorn pay them? Goddamn confusing contracts :|

The water fuel cell thingy really interested me, because I showed that first video to my physics teacher last year and he was amazed with the speed that the hydrogen and oxygen was created. He said that in lab conditions (he made his thesis or whatever you call it, your final paper on it), those speeds are unheard of, let alone in a garage :p
 
I remember someone made a thread on this a long time ago:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rb_rDkwGnU[/YOUTUBE]

Is this pretty much the same thing? Whatever happened to this guy?
 
There just arn't that many scientists who talk about it in the mainstream. If it means financial stability most people never rock the boat, especially if your paycheck is coming from people with a vested interest in this kindof tech not reaching the market, which seems to be the case.

Unfortunately money speaks the loudest in all of this. It's not hard to imagine, bankers, inudtrialists, oil cartels, whoever these people are they don't really see energy independance as a desirable outcome to continuing and securing their empire.
 
Godron said:
So basically you're saying that there is an unknown extrenal source of natural energy that Meyer is tapping into by pulsing low current electricity through water. Well, I suppose the car he's building will be the judge of that. If it works, and it really does only need tap water to run, then he's discovered something much bigger that a free source of energy - either an exception to the Conservation of Energy Law, or a new source of free energy. Probably something involving quantum.
Click to expand...
That last sentence reminds me of a Discworld book. Anything unexplainable is down to quantum :p
 
I can guarantee you that nothing will come of this invention, just like nothing comes of water powered cars or spinning magnetic discs which generate extra energy or all of the other crazy too good to be true inventions.
 
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