Man who stops robbery is left to die on populated sidewalk, no-one reacts.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/24/hugo-alfredo-tale-yax-doz_n_550854.html

Hugo Alfredo Tale-Yax was stabbed several times in the chest while saving a woman from a knife-wielding attacker. Then he bled to death while dozens of people walked by -- one stopping to snap a picture of the dying man with his cameraphone before leaving the scene.

This kinda shit really makes me lose faith in the common individual, especially the last part of my quote.

Watch the video and count how many people pass by him without calling 9/11 or trying to help him.

What the **** is wrong with society?
 
There's foul play, I don't believe what this article says.
 
Why do you not believe it, and what exactly do you think is the "foul play"?

This is not exactly that uncommon occurrence.
 
Modern day Kitty Genovese. Stabbed in Queens, nobody cares.
 
Why in living hell would your first reaction to seeing a guy dying on the floor be to take a photo of him? Why would you ignore said man? I don't understand this, at all.
 
It's the middle of the night. That's a night vision camera. A bum, who looked like he was drunk/passed out and sleeping on the sidewalk in one of the worst neighborhoods in the US in the middle of the night. I would have walked the **** past too. Just an ordinary night.

The sun starts coming up, and I do believe that the two black men realized he was dead and didn't report it. Know why? Because they didn't want to be implicated.

Finally, the sun is out, and it seems strange for someone to be sleeping on the sidewalk. That's when a guy walked up and shook him, and then shook him aggressively, and realized he needed medical attention. Then he rolled him to the side and discovered the pool of blood. He did not have a cellphone, so he walked home and called 911.


Well, that's what I saw. You see whatever you want.
 
I don't think this is really the same case. The people probably thought he was some drunk passed out
 
VirusType2 said:
It's the middle of the night. That's a night vision camera. A bum, who looked like he was drunk/passed out and sleeping on the sidewalk in one of the worst neighborhoods in the US in the middle of the night. I would have walked the **** past too. Just an ordinary night.

The sun starts coming up, and I do believe that the two black men realized he was dead and didn't report it. Know why? Because they didn't want to be implicated.

Finally, the sun is out, and it seems strange for someone to be sleeping on the sidewalk. That's when a guy walked up and shook him, and then shook him aggressively, and realized he needed medical attention. Then he rolled him to the side and discovered the pool of blood. He did not have a cellphone, so he walked home and called 911.


Well, that's what I saw. You see whatever you want.
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You know, I totally agree with you. The key point is that he wasn't calling for help, and that he wasn't visibly wounded. He was just lying on the footpath. I see people lying on the footpath all the damn time, I don't assume they've been stabbed.

Not sure that it was a night-vision camera, though.
 
I could be wrong, but I'm absolutely convinced it's a night vision camera. Maybe not full on night vision like the military uses, but enhanced in the dark, "night shot" or something.

You can see the tell-tale green shade of the film, and the sky is pitch black as the video starts. So you know it's dark out. You can see as the video goes on, that it's getting light outside. By the time the video ends, you can see the sky is lit up bright as daylight.
 
I guess you guys might be right, I've just never seen a guy here in Sweden laying on the sidewalk sleeping, be it night or day, so I'm not accustomed to it, hence why it's a bit hard to understand for me why so many people didn't seem to care.

I still think it's tragic, given that he possibly saved the original victim(the womans) life at the cost of his own.

So what do you think, is he to blame himself for stopping the stabbing?
 
What i dont understand is what happened to the woman? Why didnt she help him afterwards? Why didnt she call an ambulance?
 
Well, I'm not sure how they got that whole story, guys. I didn't see any woman being attacked.

I have to say, though I'm not sure it's relevant: that was the worst reporting I've heard in my entire life. He didn't even have a New York accent. New York Post my ass. I think maybe someone grabbed the silent video surveillance from somewhere on the internet and edited it. It seems very dubious to me.

Perhaps most likely, is that the New York Post did report this on their website, and someone grabbed it and dubbed some crappy narration over top.

Obviously, the man was killed, and it seems at least 2 people said nothing. Not trying to gloss over that, but I'd like to get another viewpoint and more details on the story.


EDIT: Actually, I'm starting to think those 2 black men also thought he was sleeping. He takes a picture; "look at this bum sleeping on the sidewalk in front of my residence.", and they go inside. The blood looks like it could have been hidden from view, since the victim was laying completely face down.

A lack of evidence is not evidence. There is nothing to suggest they knew he was dead. They didn't jump back, look in any way suspicious, or quickly leave. They did not stare at him and find out if he was alright. In fact, they couldn't have been more casual and unconcerned. After all, a bum sleeping on the sidewalk drunk is not someone you would want to wake up. He could be mental, or... SPARE SOME CHANGE? (watch that episode)
 
VirusType2, the Police have confirmed that the woman was attacked by the suspect, so they probably have witnesses who saw it happen but didn't intervene, only this homeless man did.
 
From what I saw it could easily be seen as some bum or drunkard passed out on the sidewalk, whatever....maybe it is more common in a big ass city like New York but there is nothing I saw that would indicate to a random passer-by that this guy was dead.

What I am curious about is why the apparently attacked women didn't call the cops, surely she must have seen the stabbing, or did she run away immediately?...strange and I cant see what happened.

A tragedy and a shame, but hardly a damning strike against the human race.
 
Homeless people are such a foreign concept here. I'm not kidding, the only homeless guy I ever remember seeing has his own ****ing wiki page.

I used to live like 2 minutes walk from his usual spot. Cool guy.
 
Just because someone is a bum or a passed out drunk, doesn't mean they shouldn't be checked out to see if they're all right, particularly if they're face down on concrete which is not a natural sleeping position. All I see in this thread is empty rationalisation from people content with their own susceptibility to the bystander effect. Shame.
 
Laivasse said:
Just because someone is a bum or a passed out drunk, doesn't mean they shouldn't be checked out to see if they're all right, particularly if they're face down on concrete which is not a natural sleeping position. All I see in this thread is empty rationalisation from people content with their own susceptibility to the bystander effect. Shame.
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Amen. I swore when I learned about Kitty Genovese in one of my intro psych classes that I would never be one of those people who just walks by when someone obviously isn't ok. What's absolutely disgusting is that it took almost 2 hours for anyone to call 911 for him - the article says he collapsed about 5:40am and 911 responders didn't get a call until 7:20am. Sickening to be honest.
 
I wouldn't wake up or disturb a passed out homeless guy.
 
There's a story about a woman in the town where I live who was walking through town to visit her friends with a bottle of wine. On a busy street just outside the city centre, she tripped and fell. The wine bottle broke, and she cut her wrist badly on the glass. It was around 9 in the evening and lots of cars were driving up and down. She tried to catch somebody's attention, but nobody stopped. Passers-by stepped around her, even though she was clearly bleeding very badly. In desperation, and aware that she could bleed to death, she stepped out into the road, waving and shouting in distress, only to have several cars hoot and drive around her. Eventually, a taxi driver stopped and picked her up and brought her to the hospital (which was only a ten minute drive away).

It's chilling to know that this stuff happens where I live. If I saw somebody on the street who looked like they might be in trouble, I would definitely investigate. It doesn't take any effort to call an ambulance (or at least, not in your native tongue).
 
ALMOST FORTY NEIGHBORS HEARD SCREAMS. NOBODY DID ANYTHING. NOBODY CALLED COPS. SOME OF THEM EVEN WATCHED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?



SOME OF THEM EVEN WATCHED.

​
 
ktimekiller said:
I don't think this is really the same case. The people probably thought he was some drunk passed out
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This. If you've ever been to new york city, its not that uncommon to see a dude just lying on the floor like that. The video says they didn't even see the pool of blood till they turned him over, so really It's not like people were passing him by and going "Heh look at this dude bleeding all over the sidewalk what a loser."

If the injuries had been visible then it'd be a completely different story. Really I feel like the only person to blame is the woman who was actually you know, attacked. Why the **** didn't she call the cops is what I want to know.

Just because someone is a bum or a passed out drunk, doesn't mean they shouldn't be checked out to see if they're all right, particularly if they're face down on concrete which is not a natural sleeping position. All I see in this thread is empty rationalisation from people content with their own susceptibility to the bystander effect. Shame.
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You'd be surprised at some of the positions and ways you find these dudes sleeping in. Its never a good idea to wake them up really or you risk them freaking the **** out on you.
 
ZT said:
ALMOST FORTY NEIGHBORS HEARD SCREAMS. NOBODY DID ANYTHING. NOBODY CALLED COPS. SOME OF THEM EVEN WATCHED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND?



SOME OF THEM EVEN WATCHED.

​
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Man, once I saw Darkseid's post I was definitely going to post this.

/:
 
Yeah, ever since I heard about incidents like these I've always made sure I become involved if I thought it could help.

One time I was walking back to halls and this guy was stumbling around shouting at random people, with his face completely ****ed up, blood everywhere. He was obviously drunk and had the utter shit kicked out of him, but people were leaving him alone becuase he was being so aggressive.

I went up to him, talked to him and asked if he wanted me to ring him an ambulance. Then two hot nurses's came up and asked the same questions, he started being really weird to them, trying to get me out of the way so he could be left alone with them. I had to keep myself between him and them becuase he was obviously a crazy angry horny bleeding man, who should have nothing to do with such lovely girls.

Eventually I rang and ambulance and walked the girls away from him, don't know what happened to the dude but if he was acting like that he probably had it coming.


Another time I saw a guy unconscious on the ground with a big nose bleed and who knows what else. Two girls were crying holding his head up. There was a big crowd just watching and I really didn't feel they were holding his head properlly, looked like a lot of blood was going down his throat and he may have chocked up on it. I went over and asked them if they shouldn't put him on his side but they said no and I felt a bit conspicuous so left them to it. My friends laughed at me saying I didn't know what I was on about and made a dick out of myself. But I'm not sure...

The social pressure in those situations can be very powerful.
 
I have found people passed out from heroin and shit. So sure, help out and all, but I'd rather not bother considering he might have aids. Also, there have been hobos sleeping down in the basment at the apartment house I live in. I knew, but didn't call the cops. I thought that was nice.

But another time this clearly ****ed up hobo was really close to this woman and her child. He keept asking her questions and stuff. To be fair, had he been clean and not looked like shit the questions whould have seemed fine. But considering I feelt uneasy so I kinda just stood there, looking at him. When he saw me he left, and later when my brother came home he told me how cops was wrestling a hobo a block from where we live. Thought it was pretty funny.

The point is, I sometimes try to help when I see stuff. But I'd try not to endanger my self pointlessly
 
15357 said:
Why in living hell would your first reaction to seeing a guy dying on the floor be to take a photo of him? Why would you ignore said man? I don't understand this, at all.
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It's Bill dude.
 
I live in St. Petersburg ... a city that has an obscene amount of homeless per capita. When walking around downtown I pass sleeping/passed out/whatever bums everywhere. I don't wake each one up to make sure they're not dead.

This isn't really a Kitty Genovese story, which was a matter of diffusion of responsibility. That principle wouldn't have even applied here, as it seems most people encountered him alone.

Call it rationalization all you want, but this seems like a pretty innocent mistake. Is a shame for the man though.
 
Adrik_Senturu said:
This. If you've ever been to new york city, its not that uncommon to see a dude just lying on the floor like that. The video says they didn't even see the pool of blood till they turned him over, so really It's not like people were passing him by and going "Heh look at this dude bleeding all over the sidewalk what a loser."

If the injuries had been visible then it'd be a completely different story. Really I feel like the only person to blame is the woman who was actually you know, attacked. Why the **** didn't she call the cops is what I want to know.



You'd be surprised at some of the positions and ways you find these dudes sleeping in. Its never a good idea to wake them up really or you risk them freaking the **** out on you.
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^^^Agree with everything here.

If I were out walking by myself in the middle of the night and saw some dude on the sidewalk, I'd just try to avoid him.

Can't say I've ever been in a situation where someone was clearly messed up needing help, so I don't know what I'd do then. I was in a car once with some friends in the middle of the night, and they pulled over to help out some drunk girl having issues with her boyfriend (turned out she was actually the one that hit him, so she refused to meet with the police after we already called them :rolleyes:). Anyways, this guy walks off a hundred feet to his apartment, and we're sitting right there talking to this stupid drunk girl trying to persuade her to let us get her home safely, and I'm sitting there thinking, "Man if this guy comes back with a gun and kills us all, that would really suck."

I do tend to call in random safety issues that don't involve potentially putting myself in personal danger for no obvious reason -- like this time there was a really awful smoke odor in the bathroom all day (like electrical fire smell, not cigarette/trash can fire smell), and hundreds of people who went in there apparently just decided it was ok.
 
Hmm, yeah, but whenever I see a guy passed out on the sidewalk, I usually inform the next police patrol I run into.

Of course I don't touch them and try to wake them up: the last guy I tried to help smiled at me and tried to throw up in my face.
 
Laivasse said:
Just because someone is a bum or a passed out drunk, doesn't mean they shouldn't be checked out to see if they're all right, particularly if they're face down on concrete which is not a natural sleeping position. All I see in this thread is empty rationalisation from people content with their own susceptibility to the bystander effect. Shame.
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wiki said:
In September 2007, the American Psychologist published an examination of the factual basis of coverage of the Kitty Genovese murder in psychology textbooks. The three authors concluded that the story is more parable than fact, largely because of inaccurate newspaper coverage at the time of the incident.[6] According to the authors, "despite this absence of evidence, the story continues to inhabit our introductory social psychology textbooks (and thus the minds of future social psychologists)." One interpretation of the parable is that the drama and ease of teaching the exaggerated story makes it easier for professors to capture student attention and interest.
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Not surprised really, most psyche students are pretty easily convinced of what they're taught at the best of times, but yeah....I'm happy you kids have got onto a degree course but before you make generalizing sweeping statements on the moral centre of humanity try and be a bit more sceptical and critical before you buy something wholesale. :thumbs:
 
Actually one of the most interesting things about the Kitty story were the statistics* about how psych students were more likely to act in situations similar to this, because they've all had that story taught to them so I guess psych students are p. much morally superior

I did psych ahahaha


*made up or not, statistics have a good effect
 
nurizeko said:
Not surprised really, most psyche students are pretty easily convinced of what they're taught at the best of times, but yeah....I'm happy you kids have got onto a degree course but before you make generalizing sweeping statements on the moral centre of humanity try and be a bit more sceptical and critical before you buy something wholesale. :thumbs:
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KineticAesthetic said:
Actually one of the most interesting things about the Kitty story were the statistics* about how psych students were more likely to act in situations similar to this, because they've all had that story taught to them so I guess psych students are p. much morally superior
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I didn't study psych nor had I heard of Kitty Genovese before reading this thread. The bystander effect happens regardless. If you're ever attacked or in peril while there are lots of people in the vicinity who are suddenly very interested in bus timetables or their phones rather than you, maybe you should hope that one of them is a pompous psych student with poor critical faculties (or whatever it is you want to label them to excuse having to act in the same way).
 
It actually pisses me off when people blame the bystanders for not helping. And it really irritates me when people refer to the bystanders as "accomplices"

Most bystanders are NOT trained medical personnel, do NOT have hours and hours and HOURS of their life to spare answering police questions, testifying in court, etc., do NOT know enough about the situation to take action, and DO NOT want to make themselves a 'target' for the perp to deal with.

And please don't waste any thread space asking me "what if YOU are badly injured and nobody helps you?". Of course I would want somebody to get help, if only out of desperation. But people tend to think differently when they are in a desperate situation, and that doesn't change the fact that I am NOT going to get myself involved with these things unless the place I live in has good samaritan laws. In which case, I would simply call 911, provide the location of the person/scene, and then hang up and walk away.
 
ShadowArmy said:
It actually pisses me off when people blame the bystanders for not helping. And it really irritates me when people refer to the bystanders as "accomplices"

Most bystanders are NOT trained medical personnel, do NOT have hours and hours and HOURS of their life to spare answering police questions, testifying in court, etc., do NOT know enough about the situation to take action, and DO NOT want to make themselves a 'target' for the perp to deal with.

And please don't waste any thread space asking me "what if YOU are badly injured and nobody helps you?". Of course I would want somebody to get help, if only out of desperation. But people tend to think differently when they are in a desperate situation, and that doesn't change the fact that I am NOT going to get myself involved with these things unless the place I live in has good samaritan laws. In which case, I would simply call 911, provide the location of the person/scene, and then hang up and walk away.
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You're one hell of a human being, you know that.
 
Meh.
ShadowArmy said:
It actually pisses me off when people blame the bystanders for not helping.
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Yeah, well it pisses some people off when they see vulnerable or suffering people stepped over by others more concerned with their own affairs.
ShadowArmy said:
And it really irritates me when people refer to the bystanders as "accomplices"
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Red herring, hasn't happened here.
ShadowArmy said:
Most bystanders are NOT trained medical personnel, do NOT have hours and hours and HOURS of their life to spare answering police questions, testifying in court, etc., do NOT know enough about the situation to take action, and DO NOT want to make themselves a 'target' for the perp to deal with.
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No amount of emphasis-caps can change the fact that picking up a phone does not require any of this. You've hyped up and overblown the act of giving help so that it seems like something outrageously difficult - just like how other people may construct hypothetical scenarios about the guy being a drunk who would suddenly spring to his feet and start demanding change. All empty rationalisation.

And so what if a stranger did require you to get involved to the extent you mentioned? People have been known to eg. testify in court as witnesses to crimes against people they don't know. It's how convictions happen.

Most bystanders do NOT want to get involved, yes, obviously. But this is due to selfishness and fear, no point wrapping it up in faux pragmatic logic.
ShadowArmy said:
And please don't waste any thread space asking me "what if YOU are badly injured and nobody helps you?". Of course I would want somebody to get help, if only out of desperation. But people tend to think differently when they are in a desperate situation, and that doesn't change the fact that I am NOT going to get myself involved with these things unless the place I live in has good samaritan laws.
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THE THREAD IS RUNNING OUT OF SPACE
DON'T WASTE ANY THREAD SPACE

Apparently you reason more sensibly when you're hurt and desperate than you do here. If you were badly injured, your getting help should be more of a priority than the punctuality or convenience of random passers-by, at least in any society which professes to value human life, or any community which aspires towards harmony and cooperation. People are perfectly entitled to walk on by, but then it's natural that they should have to duck criticism in the same way they ducked out on an opportunity to help.
ShadowArmy said:
In which case, I would simply call 911, provide the location of the person/scene, and then hang up and walk away.
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Yeah, just like none of the witnesses in this incident appeared to do. Yet your response is to be 'pissed off' at the people who criticise them. I can't think why, unless it's again part of some internalised contortion of reality.
 
OOh sweet jesus I just saw that 'thread space' bit and started laughing uncontrollably.

Holy shit what a thing to say. MUST SAVE THREAD SPACE
 
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Yeah, just like none of the witnesses in this incident appeared to do.
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They received three 911 calls about this incident. It's evident to me that at least most of the people walking past thought he was a god damn bum sleeping on the sidewalk (which is common in Jamaica Queens, New York). Three others called 911.
 
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