Map of Israeli airstrikes in Lebanon

[CptStern]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Lebanese_Areas_Targeted_7-15_to_7-27.jpg


"measured response" my ass

 

[gh0st]

http://www.auscillate.com/post/55

map of suicide bombings in tel aviv since 2000.

religion of peace my ass.

 

[^Ben]

I can almost guarantee that they have created more support for Hezbollah, every father whose son was killed probably wants revenge now.

Hate breeds more hate etc etc.

What I don't understand is Israel has a kick ass special ops unit and have used it before to get back Israelis so why the feck did they decide to bomb the crap outa Lebanon.

 

[gh0st]

I can almost guarantee that they have created more support for Hezbollah, every father whose son was killed probably wants revenge now.

Hate breeds more hate etc etc.

What I don't understand is Israel has a kick ass special ops unit and have used it before to get back Israelis so why the feck did they decide to bomb the crap outa Lebanon.

i dont know.. make a point? it doesnt seem very effective though.

 

[Ome_Vince]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f2/Lebanese_Areas_Targeted_7-15_to_7-27.jpg


"measured response" my ass

Why 2 topics with the same map?
Funny how 80% of the Israeli attacks are in the south of Lebanon, ....fully ...controlld by Hezbollah.
And hows 140 katyusha rockets on civilian towns a day sound for "out of proportion?"
Yes Israel's response isnt helping and sucks, but this mess is now cloading the true criminals of the region: Hezbollah and Hamas.

 

[CptStern]

this topic I started last night ..the other I posted not too long ago ..why does it matter?

but this mess is now cloading the true criminals of the region: Hezbollah and Hamas

..by bombing the shit out of lebanese civilians

 

[Ome_Vince]

*sign
So lets do nothing so Hamas and Hezbollah can bomb the shit out of Israeli civilians

 

[CptStern]

yes because that's exactly what I'm saying :upstare: ..why the **** is it always "you're either with us or for terrorism" ?

 

[mortiz]

Israel should do something about Hezbollah, but their current tactic of bombing the shit out of every inch of Lebanon isn't working since Hezbollah are still active and are still firing rockets at the Israelis. Israel needs a new tactic. They need to gather intelligence, find out exactly where top Hezbollah members are and take them out in precise strikes. What they need to do is to take the proverbial surgical knife to the situation, not a meat clever. All they're succeeding in doing at the moment is turning pretty much everyone against them, even leaders who were once "pro-west", and radicalizing the people of Lebanon.

 

[Ome_Vince]

yes because that's exactly what I'm saying :upstare: ..why the **** is it always "you're either with us or for terrorism" ?

hehe, thats your own freekin assumptions man. I'm just saying Israel's screwed up tactics are clouding the true criminals: Hezbollah and Hamas.

 

[Bait]

hehe, thats your own freekin assumptions man. I'm just saying Israel's screwed up tactics are clouding the true criminals: Hezbollah and Hamas.

Bzzt. Wrong.

If you want to play the "Killing civilians is evil" game, check the scoreboard. You might be surprised who is winning.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Do you have a reading disorder?
I'm not the one who is playing the "Killing civilians is evil" game

 

[CptStern]

hehe, thats your own freekin assumptions man. I'm just saying Israel's screwed up tactics are clouding the true criminals: Hezbollah and Hamas.

yes because people turn a blind eye to terrorism

seems to me that many on the israeli camp would ignore the mounting casulaties in the name of security when it is exactly that that will lead to countless attacks against isaelis (and their allies) for generations to come

 

[Bait]

Do you have a reading disorder?
I'm not the one who is playing the "Killing civilians is evil" game

Right, it must be me. The guy who is pissed that Lebanese civilians are getting torn to shreds while you have the gall to defend the necessity of their deaths.

How many people have to die before someone figures out how awful this tragedy really is?

 

[Ome_Vince]

Please quote where i deny this is a tragedy, or i support these deaths?
I've repeatedly stated Israel's tactics are out of proportion and the stupidest way to counter this.
Not like i'm an expert, far from it, but i do care about Civilian casualties.
I'm just a little ticked off at people's assumptions and demonising of a nation that's merely trying to protect itself.
And Stern, that might be true looking at this attack, but you cant put the entire blame of Terrorism's existance on these nations.
I'm sure you've read enough history and motive to know terrorism has always been there, and will always be there for all kinds of rediculous reasons, of which in this situation alot comes from pure religious hatred inflicted upon societies who only wish to get on with their lives.

 

[Bait]

a nation that's merely trying to protect itself.

Israel has gone about the worse route possible to achieve this. That makes them bloodthristy, or inept. Take your pick.

 

[Ome_Vince]

It makes them desperate people, living under a 60 year continious life of terror inflicted by neighbouring parties/lands.
Easy for us to judge, sitting safely in the west behind our comps.
If you look at the US response to 1 major terrorist attack. Think what the mentality would grow to be if they had frequent sometimes massive suicide bombings.

 

[Bait]

I reiterate, once again, this is the worse course of actions Israel could have taken. They are just brewing up all kinds of hatred against themselves. To the people affected by the bombings, the hatred is perfectly justified.

Israel has blown it huge time. Unless, as I stated before, someone with a backbone steps in and calms this mess down, this world is going to hell in a handbasket.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Then we do agree after all.

 

[gick]

Looks to me like what was one of the most open, democratic, westernised states in the middle east is going to go the same way as Iraq and Iran.

Well done Hezbollah, you ****ing evil idiots.
Well done Israel, you ****ing stupid idiots.

 

[SenorDingDong]

yea Lebanon was one fo the best places in the middle east.

So much for that. Both sides are completely wrong, but right now Israel seems to be the greater of the two evils.

 

[Nemesis6]

yea Lebanon was one fo the best places in the middle east.

Yes. Before the Israelis came they had... flowy meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate where the children laughed and played with gumdrop smiles! Lebanon is/was a terrorist haven. Listen, if you bring terrorists into your government and allow them to freely operate in your country, even with your own blessing, you can't blame anyone but yourself when your utopian paradise goes down the drain.

 

[CptStern]

Yes. Before the Israelis came they had... flowy meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate where the children laughed and played with gumdrop smiles! Lebanon is/was a terrorist haven.

yes because that's all they were right? a ****ing mecca for terrorism ..a terrorists vacation hotspot ..


for your information it's considered the Paris of the middle east

http://www.libanvision.com/image/jiyeh.jpg

some of you need to get the **** out of smalltown idaho and see a bit of the world


let's take your statement one step further: if 34 children are killed it's a good thing because that's 34 less terrorists? right?

 

[Lt. Drebin]

OK, so what's the solution?? We're all sitting here debating, essentially, whether or not Israel has the right to defend herself in the manner conducted. So, are we calling for more precision? No fighting...ie diplomatic solutions?? What??

I think that it's quite difficult to negotiate with people that don't even recognize your existance. Honestly...Hezbollah and Hamas don't feel Israel or her people have a right to exist...period. Even after UN resolutions designed for Lebanon to rein in Hezbollah.....they continued to fire rockets. This has been exhausted, IMO.

My call is for force. More precision, obviously. I simply don't see any other way.

 

[DaMaN]

Listen, if you bring terrorists into your government and allow them to freely operate in your country, even with your own blessing, you can't blame anyone but yourself when your utopian paradise goes down the drain.

Indeed - just look at the United States.

---

OK, so what's the solution?? We're all sitting here debating, essentially, whether or not Israel has the right to defend herself in the manner conducted. So, are we calling for more precision? No fighting...ie diplomatic solutions?? What??

I think that it's quite difficult to negotiate with people that don't even recognize your existance. Honestly...Hezbollah and Hamas don't feel Israel or her people have a right to exist...period. Even after UN resolutions designed for Lebanon to rein in Hezbollah.....they continued to fire rockets. This has been exhausted, IMO.

My call is for force. More precision, obviously. I simply don't see any other way.

It's also quite difficult to negotiate with people who don't hold to their own cease-fire: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/31072006/3/world-israeli-air-strikes-resume-lebanon.html

Hezbollah and Hamas don't feel Israel has a right to exist because Israel is founded on land that was once inhabited by their people. (It has been pointed out many times that the rockets only started flying after the invasion of Lebanon).

Force is what started this conflict, and force is what exploded it. I personally don't feel more force will solve anything.

---

Self defence does not extend beyond a nations boarders. Article 2 of international law states:
"...that all States take no actions aimed at military intervention and occupation, forcible change in or undermining of the socio-political system of States, destabilization and overthrow of the their Governments and, in particular, initiate no military action to that end under any pretext whatsoever and cease forthwith any such action already in progress."

Hence, not only is Israel slaughtering children and civilians, they're also doing it illegally. (Though I don't know of a legal way to slaughter children and civilians...)

Israel or any other nation has no right to kill more than 700 civilians in less than a month. For any reason.

-DaMaN

 

[CptStern]

OK, so what's the solution?? We're all sitting here debating, essentially, whether or not Israel has the right to defend herself in the manner conducted. So, are we calling for more precision? No fighting...ie diplomatic solutions?? What??

I think that it's quite difficult to negotiate with people that don't even recognize your existance. Honestly...Hezbollah and Hamas don't feel Israel or her people have a right to exist...period. This has been exhausted, IMO.

I dont see why I have to offer up a solution ..I'm no diplomat, I'm not a UN mediator, I'm not a statesman, I cant broker peace ...however I can offer up a temporary solution ...stop firing indescriminately, stop treating lebanese as if they're all terrorists, stop blocking humanitarian aid stop targeting infrastructure esential to sustaining human life ...lebanon is fast becoming a humanitarian disaster

 

[Lt. Drebin]

I dont see why I have to offer up a solution ..I'm no diplomat, I'm not a UN mediator, I'm not a statesman, I cant broker peace ...however I can offer up a temporary solution ...stop firing indescriminately, stop treating lebanese as if they're all terrorists, stop blocking humanitarian aid stop targeting infrastructure esential to sustaining human life ...lebanon is fast becoming a humanitarian disaster

And when Hezbollah continues to fire rockets into northern Israeli towns?

How about after years of Hezbollah rockets and Hamas suiciders, will Israel eventually become a humanitarian disaster??

My solution is simply to continue what you've been doing but with a shit-load more precision. Innocent casualties in any conflict are inevitable....it's tragic in every sense, but not completely avoidable, but what has happened so far is rather reckless.....I won't argue that. But, I can't see any other solution on how to deal with a group that simply wants you and your people to not exist.

 

[CptStern]

And when Hezbollah continues to fire rockets into northern Israeli towns?

they should stop what they're doing and bomb lebanese civilians because that will effectively stop hezbollah attacks, right? either way they're not making the right choice are they? 34 hezbollah militants killed with over 700 civilians killed .. at this rate there's not going to be many civilians left in lebanon

How about after years of Hezbollah rockets and Hamas suiciders, will Israel eventually become a humanitarian disaster??

it hasnt so far, why would it now? hezbollah didnt spring up overnight

My solution is simply to continue what you've been doing but with a shit-load more precision. Innocent casualties in any conflict are inevitable....it's tragic in every sense, but not completely avoidable, but what has happened so far is rather reckless.....I won't argue that. But, I can't see any other solution on how to deal with a group that simply wants you and your people to not exist.

I really dont think they care ..it wouldnt be the first time a country bombarded a country into the stone age to turn public sentiment against the government

 

[Lt. Drebin]

it hasnt so far, why would it now? hezbollah didnt spring up overnight

It doesn't excuse their continued violence against Israelis, does it? Just because the country isn't marred by a humanitarian disaster doesn't mean that hundreds of families cannot be. Violence against Israelis has been just as malicious and far more direct in it's intentions. At the very least, Israel hides under the guise of "removing Hezbollah"...Hezbollah just wants to kill Israelis.

How much more evidence does a person need to realize that this won't stop until Israel ceases to exist...or Hamas or Hezbollah??? It's writen into their fundamental beliefs.....the state of Israel CANNOT BE on Arab land.

 

[CptStern]

please answer all my points, not just this one

It doesn't excuse their continued violence against Israelis, does it? Just because the country isn't marred by a humanitarian disaster doesn't mean that hundreds of families cannot be. Violence against Israelis has been just as malicious and far more direct in it's intentions.

again how are the people of lebanon responsible for this? guilt by association? that's like carpet bombing washington to punish the bush administration

At the very least, Israel hides under the guise of "removing Hezbollah"...Hezbollah just wants to kill Israelis.

so what's it goingto be? are Hezbollah morally equal to israel or are they terrorists? you cant compare the two otherwise

How much more evidence does a person need to realize that this won't stop until Israel ceases to exist...or Hamas or Hezbollah??? It's writen into their fundamental beliefs.....the state of Israel CANNOT BE on Arab land.

35 hezbollah fighters killed out of 700+ lebanese civilians ..it seems to me that the civilians are paying the price not hezbollah or hamas.

oh and eradicating hezbollah/hamas wont fix the problem (if that's even possible) ..in fact it'll exasperate the situation tenfold as civilian casualties continue to mount

 

[Lt. Drebin]

again how are the people of lebanon responsible for this? guilt by association? that's like carpet bombing washington to punish the bush administration

Again, how are the people of Israel responsible for Hezbollah/Hamas' actions.

so what's it goingto be? are Hezbollah morally equal to israel or are they terrorists? you cant compare the two otherwise

Makes more sense if you quote the entire statement. Here: "Violence against Israelis has been just as malicious and far more direct in it's intentions. At the very least, Israel hides under the guise of "removing Hezbollah"...Hezbollah just wants to kill Israelis."

Clearly not morally equal considering Israel doesn't DELIBERATLY target Lebanese citizens.

35 hezbollah fighters killed out of 700+ lebanese civilians ..it seems to me that the civilians are paying the price not hezbollah or hamas.

Simply don't know what else to say. I agree with you that if this conflict is to continue, Israel needs to draw their scalpal and not their broad-sword. However, loss of innoscent life in any conflict is tragic, but I'm not about to pretend it's avoidable.

oh and eradicating hezbollah/hamas wont fix the problem (if that's even possible) ..in fact it'll exasperate the situation tenfold as civilian casualties continue to mount

OK fine. I'm assuming you've come across studies to prove it. Not going to argue it with you.

And Stern, I only responded to your one point because I though we were covering some new ground. I wasn't trying to be insulting. We've just discussed some of these points ad nauseum today.

 

[mortiz]

Force needs to be applied in the right places, at the moment Israel is applying it in all the wrong places.

If Israel had conducted this operation with any degree of competence from the start I'm sure we'd be much closer to a soloution than we are now. Israel's put a chink in Hezbollah, but they hardly look ready to collapse, and after 2 weeks + of hostilities that's rather poor from a nation with as much back-up as Israel.

 

[15357]

http://img.news.yahoo.co.kr/picture/7/20060731/720060731_26247713.jpg

 

[Ome_Vince]

Cartoon time

 

[bbson john]

People who blindly support Israel should really look at the fact box.

However, the bombard is stopped. I hope the ground unit will do better in eliminating Hezbollah, not Lebanon civilians.