memory

[bryanf445]

i might pick up a stick of this along with my other upgrades...http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=20-145-416&DEPA=1
now this will be alot better to overclock then with my pc2100 ram right? or should i avoid upgrading and just overclock with the ram i have now and is this a good selection i made? i know its not alot right now but ill get more later...would this be better then my 768mb pc2100 ram??
last question...how long will pc3200 ram be around...as in great quality, good overclocker ect....

 

[[w0f]Oblivion]

its good ram, but i personally wouldnt waste my money on it.
good overclocker? = yes
worth the money? = no

 

[bryanf445]

y not?

 

[bryanf445]

bump*...

 

[Phisionary]

hm.. I dunno about that ram. First, just to check... You knmow your system can handle PC3200 speeds, right? PC2100 ram runs at... 133MHz?? I think. and PC3200 runs at 200MHz (what they call 'ddr400', but i'm talking about the FrontSideBus timings you see before you apply the CPU multiplier, just in case you don't know).

Anyway, that's a big jump.

I'm not sure what you mean when u ask 'how long will it be around' .
How long will you be able to buy good PC3200? For years I'm sure. Plus you can always buy faster stuff and underclock if you just want to round out to 1 Gig.

I'm not sure how much of an speed increase you would get from this. *shrug*

 

[bryanf445]

hmm well what does ram have to do with overclocking? and what i meant by how long will it be around...i mean how long will it be good ram, and not a week from when i get it better stuff comes out making this bad or somethign

 

[Phisionary]

Oh. I thought you meant you were going to overclock your RAM. My bad.

There is already much faster stuff out. I do not believe it's a standard, yet... but you can get DDR600 ram that runs 50% faster clock speeds (then DDR400 , i.e. PC3200). It's VERY expensive, and hard to find, but it's out there.

I don't anticipate their being any major breakthroughs that make it obsolete overnight. DDR2 is on the verge of being good enough to replace DDR, or so I hear. That will probably happen in the next year or so, I would guess.

Progress is relentless of course. In six months RAM will be faster. I dunno what else there is to say...

 

[bryanf445]

thanks for clearing that up, but what does ram have to do with overclocking your cpu

 

[Phisionary]

not a whole heck of a lot. probably depends on your chipset.

I haven't done much overclocking lately, so can't discuss the particulars on many current systems... but if you're unclear on the connection between the two I'll try and clear it up in some general terms. Consider that I don't know what you know, so I'm starting pretty basic here. I apologise if I sound in any way patronizing.

Let's say a theoretical imaginary CPU runs at 2 GHz. Every cycle, it needs to transmit data to all the different components. The first stage of transmitting data from the CPU to graphics card, RAM, hard-drive, network card, etc. -- is through the Front Side Bus (or FSB). With something as physically large as the front side bus (really, all the motherboard traces (wires) that makes it up), it can't operate at the 2000 MHz speed of the CPU. So it operates at a lower speed. The default FSB speed for this system might be 200 MHz. The CPU operates as a mulitple of the FSB. So a 10x multiplier would give it 2000 Mhz CPU speed. The multiplier is not changeble (to a higher number at least) on most modern CPU's.

The RAM also operates on the FSB, and uses it to transmit data to and from the CPU. Last time I OC'ed, your RAM had to overclock to the same rate as your CPU. My ancient P3-600 had a 100Mhz FSB, which I overclocked to 133 MHz. I therefore needed RAM that ran at 133 MHz, instead of the default 100.

Things have improved since then. There is now a ratio multiplier between the FSB and the system RAM, as well as many other components. What these particular ratios are depend on the chipset and/or the motherboard manufacturer. For some things like PCI and AGP busses -- through which devices on these slots transmit their data -- they now can be locked to a particular number, such as 33 MHz and 66 Mhz, respectively. (IIRC...)

So, if you have the FSB running at 200 MHz, and have DDR400 (which natively runs at a FSB of 200 MHz, half it's DDR number), then things work swimmingly.

But if you overclock to 210 Mhz (CPU from 2 GHz to 2.1 GHz) then your RAM would need to run at 210 MHz (effectively DDR420) as well...
-or-
you could lower the RAM-to-FSB multiplier ratio, say... from 1:1, to 9:10

this means, instead of deviding by 1, and multiplying by 1 : devide by 10, multiply by 9. So a FSB of 210MHz w/ a 9:10 ratio gives you 189 MHz, which is what the RAM would run at.

So, if your CPU only reached 2.1 GHz, and your motherboard had no ratio's between 1:1 and 9:10, you would need to have RAM that ran stable at 210 Mhz, or underclock it to 189 MHz (effectively DDR382).

If you OC'd the FSB to 220 MHz, or course, then a 9:10 ratio would work swimmingly, giving you a RAM speed of 200 MHz again.

Again, the particular ratios and FSB's and what-have-you varies from processor and chipset and motherboard, so if you have system-specific questions someone else'll have to help.

Well, anyway. You probably knew a lot of this, but there it is anyway, for anyone who didn't.

 

[Warbie]

thanks for clearing that up, but what does ram have to do with overclocking your cpu

Quite alot actually.

As for what memory to get - i'd go for a cheaper brand personally, and save some cash for other components (cpu/mob/gfx)

You won't notice any difference - especially if you're not planning on overclocking (which is the only valid reason to get expensive ram imo)

 

[bryanf445]

i am overclokcing though

 

[PHATXUIQ]

pc 3200 runs at 400MHZ not 200. That RAM Is not waste of money if planning to do some serious overclocking!!!

 

[Phisionary]

pc 3200 runs at 400MHZ not 200.

Only if you are fluent in the language of marketing...

DDR double data rate. sends data on the falling and rising of the systems timing signal. connects with a one to one ratio to the front side bus. And I know MY bus doesn't run at 400MHz.

 

[bryanf445]

so...is the ram good or not? haha if it isnt can someone link me to some?

oh and thanks for all the help phis...

 

[Phisionary]

yeah, it's good. It'll have decent overclockability, if you intend to overclock the RAM. It you just wan't some flexibility for your CPU overclocking, it'll be more than good enough.

The timing doesn't make a huge difference in performance AFAIK. 0-4% maybe, between cas3 and 2, depending on the app. It usually means you can run it at a higher clock speed it you relax the timings, though.

you can just get cheap pc3200 if you don't want something fancy.
This is the first one with a brand name I've heard of :
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-164&depa=1

Other options, just from hearsay, that are that amount or less, and use 2-3-3-8 or less...
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-119&depa=1
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-220-018&depa=1
^ both brands are ok ^
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-212&depa=1
^ mushkin used to be awesome, I dunno how great theses days ^

you can pay more and get 2-2-2-5 timing like:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-220-036&depa=1
or this:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-145-521&depa=1
or this:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-117&depa=1
or this:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-331&depa=1


but in these last cases, I would think having a full gig of ram might help your performance far more for the money. That lower latency memory makes very small performance differences, unless you wan't to jam you clockspeed on the RAM itself (make sure your CPU/Motherboard can handle it if you want to do this).

of the top of my head, I don't know if p4's even do dual channel (don't know the brand much), but getting 2x512 is the economical and faster way of getting a gig of ram.

Here is the cheapest. It uses slower 2.5 timings, and won't overclock much probably:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-299&depa=1

The cheapest cas2 memory is this:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-150&depa=1

so in sumary, I can't make your decision for you, just give you far more options then you really want. :E

GL.