Mixed Economy, Capitalist or Socialist?? (Poll)

[dream431ca]

Which do you believe is the best choice for a country? Canada is Mixed, The United States is also said to be Mixed...but it borderlines Capitalism, and I think Norway has a Socialist Economy, which Basically means, the government pays for pretty much everything..but the taxes are very high. Which one do you prefer and explain why.

I choose Mixed Economy, because it offers both privaitization and public aspects of both the capitalist and socialist economies..if done correctly, it's the best choice IMO...for example Health care is paid for by the government, or if you can afford it..private health care. You also get a very competitive economy with essential services paid by the government.

 

[15357]

You mean communist, don't you?

I don't think socialism is a economy thingy. Correct me if I;m worng.

 

[dream431ca]

You mean communist, don't you?

I don't think socialism is a economy thingy. Correct me if I;m worng.

The definition of socialism has changed over the years. Socialism is not Communism (it's actually an early version of Communism)..but communism is where the government controls everything...socialism is where the government pays for everything but does not control what the population would like to do.

EDIT: And socialism can be described as an economy, because it's another way of managing the money for the country.

 

[kirovman]

I'd like a mix. Private businesses adopting the capitalist approach, while healthcare is state-administered, so you can goto hospital even if you're unemployed or poor.

I just see it as common sense really, and the system seems to work ok here, with a few glitches, but then again, what system doesn't have glitches?

 

[Gargantou]

An easy way to sum up the difference in socialism and communism is also this.

The communists believed in using violence(Revolution) to shape society.
While the socialists(Such as the ones that've ruled Sweden ALOT during the 20th century) believed in gradual reforms of the society to reshape it.

Anyway, seeing as I guess you could say I live in a somewhat socialistishp) country I have to say I'm pleased with it.
Albeit Sweden is more and more adopting the American -worklife-, for example, the norm over here is 6 weeks of vacation per year, whilst the one over in the US is around 2-3.

 

[kirovman]

Also communists don't tolerate any other political parties, but socialists are frequently voted in and out democratically.

 

[The Monkey]

Every country in the world have mixed economy, but the level of capitalism and communism in each is very different.

 

[Solaris]

Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism's triumph lead us on!

Somes me up

 

[The Monkey]

Upp trälar uti alla stater,
som hungern bojor lagt uppå.
Det dånar uti rättens krater,
snart skall utbrottets timma slå.
Störtas skall det gamla snart i gruset.
Slav stig upp för att slå dig fri.
Från mörkret stiga vi mot ljuset,
från intet allt vi vilja bli.

Refrain:
Upp till kamp emot kvalen!
Sista striden det är,
ty Internationalen
åt alla lycka bär.
Upp till kamp emot kvalen!
Sista striden det är,
ty Internationalen
åt alla lycka bär.

I höjden räddarn vi ej hälsa,
ej gudar, furstar stå oss bi.
Nej, själva vilja vi oss frälsa
och samfälld skall vår räddning bli.
För att kräva ut det stulna, bröder,
och för att slita andens band,
vi smida medan järnet glöder
med senig arm och kraftig hand.

Refrain

I sin förgudning avskyvärda,
månn' guldets kungar nå'nsin haft
ett annat mål än att bli närda
av proletärens arbetskraft?
Vad han skapat under nöd och vaka
utav tjuvar rånat är,
när folket kräver det tillbaka,
sin egen rätt det blott begär.

Refrain

Båd' stat och lagar oss förtrycka,
vi under skatter digna ner.
Den rike inga plikter trycka,
den arme ingen rätt man ger.
Länge nog som myndlingar vi böjt oss,
jämlikheten skall nu bli lag.
Med plikterna vi hitills nöjt oss.
Nu taga vi vår rätt en dag.

Refrain

Till krigets slaktande vi dragits,
vi mejats ner i jämna led.
För furstars lögner har vi slagits,
nu vill vi skapa evig fred.
Om de oss driver dessa kannibaler,
mot våra grannar än en gång,
vi skjuter våra generaler
och sjunger broderskapets sång.

Refrain

Arbetare, i stad på landet,
en gång skall jorden bliva vår.
När fast vi knyta brodersbandet,
då lättingen ej råda får.
Många rovdjur på vårt blod sig mätta
men när vi nu till vårt försvar,
en dag en gräns för dessa sätta,
skall solen stråla mera klar.

Refrain

Regeringarna oss förtrycka
slå ned tyrannerna giv fred!
Med värnpliktsstrejken skola vi rycka
just deras bästa vapen ned!
Komma mot oss sen de kannibaler
stå vi alla så som en,
och deras morska generaler
från ståt och makt skall plockas ren.

Upp till kamp emot kvalen!
Sista stiden det är,
ty Internationalen
åt alla lycka bär.
Upp slå ned allt det gamla,
tålamodet är slut!
För frihet vi oss samla,
förgöra våldets krut!

 

[Gargantou]

Sing to the Motherland, home of the free,
Bulwark of peoples in brotherhood strong.
O Party of Lenin, the strength of the people,
To Communism's triumph lead us on!

Somes me up

Let's do it in Russian, eh COMRADE!?

Союз нерушимый республик свободных

Сплотила навеки Великая Русь.
Да здравствует созданный волей народов
Единый, могучий Советский Союз!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Знамя советское, знамя народное
Пусть от победы к победе ведёт!

Сквозь грозы сияло нам солнце свободы,

И Ленин великий нам путь озарил:
Нас вырастил Сталин - на верность народу,
На труд и на подвиги нас вдохновил!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Счастья народов надёжный оплот!
Знамя советское, знамя народное
Пусть от победы к победе ведёт!

Мы армию нашу растили в сраженьях.

Захватчиков подлых с дороги сметём!
Мы в битвах решаем судьбу поколений,
Мы к славе Отчизну свою поведём!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Славы народов надёжный оплот!
Знамя советское, знамя народное
Пусть от победы к победе ведёт!

;(

It IS the best national anthem ever imo, even tho I'm not a communist, it's beautiful.

 

[Raz]

I kill communists for fun.

 

[15357]

Let's do it in Russian, eh COMRADE!?

Союз нерушимый республик свободных

Сплотила навеки Великая Русь.
Да здравствует созданный волей народов
Единый, могучий Советский Союз!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Дружбы народов надёжный оплот!
Знамя советское, знамя народное
Пусть от победы к победе ведёт!

Сквозь грозы сияло нам солнце свободы,

И Ленин великий нам путь озарил:
Нас вырастил Сталин - на верность народу,
На труд и на подвиги нас вдохновил!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Счастья народов надёжный оплот!
Знамя советское, знамя народное
Пусть от победы к победе ведёт!

Мы армию нашу растили в сраженьях.

Захватчиков подлых с дороги сметём!
Мы в битвах решаем судьбу поколений,
Мы к славе Отчизну свою поведём!

Славься, Отечество наше свободное,
Славы народов надёжный оплот!
Знамя советское, знамя народное
Пусть от победы к победе ведёт!

;(

It IS the best national anthem ever imo, even tho I'm not a communist, it's beautiful.

agreed.

I kill communists for fun.

YOu too? (I don't)

 

[Solaris]

We should have a clan of forum communists!
The russian national anthem is the best, I have it in vinly from the 1970's I belive, and osme pinbadges that the soviets wore!

Woo lenin!

 

[Gargantou]

I prefered the '43 anthem over the 70s revision one.
And yes we should form a clan of forum commies/socialists imo.

 

[gick]

I choose Mixed Economy, because it offers both privaitization and public aspects of both the capitalist and socialist economies..if done correctly, it's the best choice IMO...for example Health care is paid for by the government, or if you can afford it..private health care. You also get a very competitive economy with essential services paid by the government.

Yaha, I couldnt agree more. The other good part about a mixed economy is that there are ways to protect people from large companies (ie standards of safety, minimum wage etc)

 

[Solaris]

, or if you can afford it..private health care. You also get a very competitive economy with essential services paid by the government.

So you think people who do hard manual work, for 9 hours a day, should get worse health care than those who work 6 hour days, and retire to a mansion?

 

[kirovman]

If people want to put money into the economy by having healthcare which comes with chandelier clad hallways and hospital dinners on silver trays, let them. It's better than the money going back into their pockets, surely?

As long as this is not at the expense of every man, woman and child who are entitled to a national health system, I don't see a problem with it. Loads of middle class people are on sponsored BUPA healthcare plans anyway, so it's not exactly restricted to the mansion people.

If you can operate a private service which is of better quality than a public service, as long as it meets government regulations, it should be fine.

 

[Solaris]

If people want to put money into the economy by having healthcare which comes with chandelier clad hallways and hospital dinners on silver trays, let them. It's better than the money going back into their pockets, surely?

As long as this is not at the expense of every man, woman and child who are entitled to a national health system, I don't see a problem with it. Loads of middle class people are on sponsored BUPA healthcare plans anyway, so it's not exactly restricted to the mansion people.

If you can operate a private service which is of better quality than a public service, as long as it meets government regulations, it should be fine.

The NHS should be good enough to the point that theres no need for a Bupa.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Solaris. Read the Open Society and It's Enemies by Karl Popper.

Please

 

[kirovman]

The NHS should be good enough to the point that theres no need for a Bupa.

Well it should, but I think there's examples of democratic countries where the national health-care system is on the same level as BUPA.

But this means higher taxes. People usually don't like paying taxes.

I agree that certain things like health care should be free ala the socialist system. But the problems with the NHS are a different matter, and very complex.

Solaris. Read the Open Society and It's Enemies by Karl Popper.

Please

Hmm, I'd like to check that out myself.

 

[Solaris]

Ok, Ill order it at the libary.

 

[Teta_Bonita]

We should have a clan of forum communists!
The russian national anthem is the best, I have it in vinly from the 1970's I belive, and osme pinbadges that the soviets wore!

Woo lenin!

DIE COMMIES!!!!!! :sniper:

 

[ComradeBadger]

Ok, Ill order it at the libary.

It's pretty heavy going, but well worth a read

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I guess more capitalist to say mixed economy. At a certain extent, government assistance in areas is productive and swell (public education, etc) but within certain bounds. I think the US Economy sums up my views of a good, effective system. It could definately use some tweaks here and there, but those are just minor things compared to the whole.

If you guys haven't read it before, read the essay Civil Disobedience. by Henry David Thoreau. It sums up my views on a lot of things. Disagree with Thoreau on some tiny spots but he's making great points in it.

Free link to the essay (not too long, check it out people!)

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/civ.dis.html

 

[dream431ca]

I guess more capitalist to say mixed economy. At a certain extent, government assistance in areas is productive and swell (public education, etc) but within certain bounds. I think the US Economy sums up my views of a good, effective system. It could definately use some tweaks here and there, but those are just minor things compared to the whole.

If you guys haven't read it before, read the essay Civil Disobedience. by Henry David Thoreau. It sums up my views on a lot of things. Disagree with Thoreau on some tiny spots but he's making great points in it.

While were discussing issues concerning the USA, I have to ask a question:

Do you think that the US should implement a public medical system (where the government pays for health care), like Canada does? Privatization rakes in a lot of money, but a lot of people cannot afford it. Would it be better for the US or worse??

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

While were discussing issues concerning the USA, I have to ask a question:

Do you think that the US should implement a public medical system (where the government pays for health care), like Canada does? Privatization rakes in a lot of money, but a lot of people cannot afford it. Would it be better for the US or worse??

No, for two reasons. A practicality one and an ideological one.

A burden on the taxpayer who has no obligation to take care of other people. It's not the burden of the people to take in everyone else. Coldest, steeley eyed way to put it but that goes to the bottom line.

On a pratical level, implementing it here would cause such massive problems for so many years that many may just end up waiting to die. Our budget isn't geared towards it, and in general socialist medicine seems inferior to privatized practice. It would cause tension in insurance rates and tax rates, and cause major unrest. There are a lot of programs around here that can get people taken care of, searching them out and such just needs to be done, but it seems like the outside view of our health systems is as if no one cares, only the super rich can afford it, and people just die in the street all the time- it's not like that.

Also, most job situations pay for health related insurances (Dental, general health etc), too, including blue collar.

 

[BirdMan]

and in general socialist medicine seems inferior to privatized practice.

Really? Then how come Cuba's medecine is known to be one of the best in the world. I don't think it's true that private meds are better. Its skills that makes a med good, not the way he gets paid.

 

[southernman17]

Capitalism is clearly the best choice. You earn based not only on the amount of work you do, but also how intelligent you are. A mixed economy would get me mad because I don't enjoy the notion of the government having control over those sort of programs and using my tax dollars to support lazy asses.

 

[CptStern]

ya cuz everyone who's poor must be a "lazy ass"

 

[kirovman]

Capitalism is clearly the best choice. You earn based not only on the amount of work you do, but also how intelligent you are. A mixed economy would get me mad because I don't enjoy the notion of the government having control over those sort of programs and using my tax dollars to support lazy asses.

Yeah, but it's nice to have something to fall back on when you're out of work for example, or not have to pay insanely high prices just because you were unlucky enough to be afflicted with a disease.

A national healthcare and welfare system is kind of an insurance policy, but it's compulsory. Everyone agrees you shouldn't have to support lazy asses, but that's not what the system is about, it's about supporting people in genuine need.
I'm sure in your time of need you'd prefer to be treated with some dignity and support, rather than be kicked in the stomach by the state.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Really? Then how come Cuba's medecine is known to be one of the best in the world. I don't think it's true that private meds are better. Its skills that makes a med good, not the way he gets paid.

You've got to be kidding me. Cuba's medicine is not known for that, in fact the system there is known to be so corrupt it's a moneymaking venue for Castro's government, offering spas to the rich tourists and delapidated, lacking facilities and care for citizens.

"One of the greatest fallacies about the so called 'Cuban Revolution' has to do with healthcare. Foreigners who visit Cuba, are fed the official line from Castro's propaganda machine: "All Cubans are now able to receive excellent healthcare, which is also free." But the truth is very different.

Castro has built excellent health facilities for the use of foreigners, who pay with hard currency for those services. Argentinean soccer star Maradona, for example, has traveled several times to Cuba to receive treatment to combat his drug addiction.

But Cubans are not even allowed to visit those facilities. Cubans who require medical attention must go to other hospitals, that lack the most minimum requirements needed to take care of their patients.

In addition, most of these facilities are filthy and patients have to bring their own towels, bed sheets, pillows, or they would have to lay down on dirty bare mattresses stained with blood and other body fluids."

The line from wikipedia that you butchered is "...regarded as one of the best in the developing world"

A FAR, far cry from best in the world.

Here are some nice photographs of Cuba's Hospital Clínico Quirúrgico Joaquin Albarran in Havana:
http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

 

[southernman17]

I wouldn't want to pay for other people's safety net just like they wouldn't want to pay for mine. Not only that but we have insurance here in the U.S. so that can usually take some of the burden off the one who is in need fiscally. There is affordable insurance for people out there which is affordable, even if you do earn minimun wage. Finally polls show most Americans find the idea of European style social programs absolutely abhorrent.


Yes stern, people who are poor are generally lazy asses. They were lazy in high school and had bad grades did care and therefore got shitty jobs. If you work hard and smart, you can be relatively sucessful in life.

 

[CptStern]

I wouldn't want to pay for other people's safety net just like they wouldn't want to pay for mine. Not only that but we have insurance here in the U.S. so that can usually take some of the burden off the one who is in need fiscally. There is affordable insurance for people out there which is affordable, even if you do earn minimun wage. Finally polls show most Americans find the idea of European style social programs absolutely abhorrent.

yet 45 million americans are without adequate healthcare insurance

Yes stern, people who are poor are generally lazy asses. They were lazy in high school and had bad grades did care and therefore got shitty jobs. If you work hard and smart, you can be relatively sucessful in life.

yes they just must all be lazy:

"Of the more than 35 million persons classified as living in poverty, most are children, disabled or elderly," Glasmeier notes. "But 7 million of them are men and women who are working at jobs that do not pay a wage they can live on. A majority of working poor are over age 24 and in their wage-earning period of life."


source

 

[jmjneary]

um it seems to me that many people on this thread do not understand the definition of true karl marx communism. it is not being controlled by only one political party it is not being controlled at all it is everyone caring enough for the good of the country to accomplish the tasks that need to be completed. I LOVE COMMUNISM

 

[Reaktor4]

errr i voted capitalist by mistake.. meant to vote for mixed

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

um it seems to me that many people on this thread do not understand the definition of true karl marx communism. it is not being controlled by only one political party it is not being controlled at all it is everyone caring enough for the good of the country to accomplish the tasks that need to be completed. I LOVE COMMUNISM

It's impossible to use without stripping rights and disenfranchising people. Once one person doesn't want to function within the system, the government/people/whatever you'd like to call it must use force to quell him.

 

[The Monkey]

What don't seem to understand is that very few people actually like being unemployed. People want jobs, they don't want to live in poverty, which you do if you don't have a job, even in countries with a big social safety net. I'm sure most people think on monday morning how good it would be to be without job, but if you are, you won't like it. If, say, the factory or the office you work on gets shut down, is that your fault? Is it your fault that your parents couldn't afford that collage education, so that you'tr stuck with crappy jobs? You say that you don't want to support the lazy, well how about supporting your fellow humans when they so desperately need it? I find it funny that you conervatives and other right-wingers talk so much about moral, and yet you aren't even capable of showing solidarity to your fellow citizens when they need you the most.

 

[kirovman]

What don't seem to understand is that very few people actually like being unemployed. People want jobs, they don't want to live in poverty, which you do if you don't have a job, even in countries with a big social safety net. I'm sure most people think on monday morning how good it would be to be without job, but if you are, you won't like it. If, say, the factory or the office you work on gets shut down, is that your fault? Is it your fault that your parents couldn't afford that collage education, so that you'tr stuck with crappy jobs? You say that you don't want to support the lazy, well how about supporting your fellow humans when they so desperately need it? I find it funny that you conervatives and other right-wingers talk so much about moral, and yet you aren't even capable of showing solidarity to your fellow citizens when they need you the most.

Punishing the guilty is permitted, but helping the innocent is less than welcome. Unless helping the innocent involves punishing people.

 

[gick]

What don't seem to understand is that very few people actually like being unemployed. People want jobs, they don't want to live in poverty, which you do if you don't have a job, even in countries with a big social safety net. I'm sure most people think on monday morning how good it would be to be without job, but if you are, you won't like it. If, say, the factory or the office you work on gets shut down, is that your fault? Is it your fault that your parents couldn't afford that collage education, so that you'tr stuck with crappy jobs? You say that you don't want to support the lazy, well how about supporting your fellow humans when they so desperately need it? I find it funny that you conervatives and other right-wingers talk so much about moral, and yet you aren't even capable of showing solidarity to your fellow citizens when they need you the most.

I agree. I really dont know how the Christians amongst them can reconcile that5 sort of selfishness with their beliefs.

 

[swiss]

This is what the poll should have been:
- Free Market Economy
- Command Economy (ie Communist run)
- Middle way (eg New Labour in the UK?)