Multiplayer achievements are ruining the online communities.

[Gargantou]

Having just played UFC 2009 for the X-Box 360 for most of the day I can safely say that it is one of the prime examples as to why I'm opposed to multiplayer-themed achievements.

1. They are usually very boring and grindish(xxx amount of ranked wins)

2. They encourage people to use stuff like lagswitches to get an upperhand.

3. They encourage people to disconnect if they're about to lose, in order to be able to maintain their high ranks.

I am guessing the devs probably don't give a rats ass about my opinion, but I felt it's worth voicing it anyway.

Probably around 75% of my matches in the game have ended with the opposing part disconnecting their internet cable in order to avoid a defeat, 20% have been people using lagswitches to temporarily 'halt' the match and get an upper hand, the final 5% are decent people who actually play for fun, not to be assholes.

I just felt I needed to vent my opinions on this bullshit a bit.

Also, I am aware online cheating has existed before achievements, but IMO, things like achievements and trophies, gamerscores etc, ENCOURAGE cheating.

At least when they're multiplayer achievements.

Does anyone else share my views on this horrible, horrible concept?

 

[Deleted member 56031]

I actually totally agree and due to my OCD and the fact I don't play MP often it just annoys me in general (big reason I don't play TF2).

 

[Gargantou]

Hey, I have OCD too, and it's one of the big reasons it annoys me in general too! High-five!

 

[Warped]

I like Achievements, it usually brings me back for more. Even if it doesn't have any intrinsic value, I gotta do my best and it usually makes me try playing in a different way than I'm used to. Also I'm not a fan of one on one competitions so I usually just stick to the 16+ player arenas online.

 

[Gargantou]

Well, my problem is not with achievements in general, but multiplayer focused achievements.

In my experience, games without MP achievements, generally has a lot less cheating/glitching in them.

On the 360 anyway.

 

[VirusType2]

Achievements or not, people do that in any ranked match any time a game has loopholes that allow it. And, the worst part is that it is contagious. "Well, everyone is cheating me, so I'm going to do it too". Also people learn the trick and may start doing it. So now you have an army of cheaters.

It really frustrates me because I just want to see where I stand, fair and square. If I take the time to get good at a game, and I really love the game, then I want to PLAY the game, not some contest to see who can exploit the game the best.

please tell me Street Fighter 4 doesn't have this problem.

 

[Dinnesch]

Agreed, disconnecters/lagswitch users definitely suck. Whenever I play a Mario Kart DS game and am about to win, they almost always disconnect and I feel like smashing my DS up.

The only archievement-using online game I've played so far is GTA IV on the 360, and most people were just playing fair, but this is really different for racing/sports games AFAIK.

 

[smwScott]

I actually haven't had any disconnects on me yet with UFC ...

I like achievements, they give you something to shoot for. What I hate is when they're nothing more than massive time sinks that are completely unattainable by anyone with a life. Resistance 2 was the worst offender, having multiple achievements that wouldn't taken FOREVER to get (10,000 competitive kills for one). Killzone 2 is a bit guilty too with requiring you to be in the top 1% of all players at the end of the week, but at least that's something that won't be drawn out for months.

As far as encouraging cheating ... I really doubt it. People are always dipshits, and if they're going to DC on you now they would've done it anyway. I still don't get while game companies just haven't instituted a hard line "Disconnect = Loss" rule in games yet. Sure it ****s over an innocent every once in awhile, but it isn't that big a deal ... and it should completely eliminate the problem.

 

[Gargantou]

smwScott, about the last part of your post, the biggest issue is the way most MP games are set up, most PS3/XB360 games use a player-to-player multiplayer method, one player acting as host, others as clients, this makes it very hard for ranked games to tell who disconnected etc etc.

Whereas the few games that use their own official servers, like Fight Night Round 3, manage to do this with a disconnect being an automatic loss, are vulnerable to economic troubles, because if EA shuts down their official servers, no more ranked MP; kinda like with MGS3Subsistence on the PS2.

Also, Dinnesch, I didn't know that it's that widespread that they even use it for portable games :\

Can't we institute a capital punishment on cheating/glitching?

 

[VirusType2]

the biggest issue is the way most MP games are set up, most PS3/XB360 games use a player-to-player multiplayer method, one player acting as host, others as clients, this makes it very hard for ranked games to tell who disconnected etc etc.

well, if what you say is true, then other players should be able to:

block them, so you won't have to play them anymore

or

give them negative feedback - kind of like ebay. To keep it from getting abused, each user can only give negative feedback once. So you'll know right away before the match starts that this douche has -140 feedback that he is a cheater, and you'll never have to play them.

In the end, those with low feedback - the cheaters - will be stuck playing other cheaters because no one will play them.

 

[PimpinPenguin]

I used to play Grid online but is got frustrating that when ever i'm about to win everyone disconnects, or if i got a good lead then some will start driving the wrong way trying to stop me then disconnecting. There are too many sore losers ruining competitive online gaming.

 

[Gargantou]

I used to play Grid online but is got frustrating that when ever i'm about to win everyone disconnects, or if i got a good lead then some will start driving the wrong way trying to stop me then disconnecting. There are too many sore losers ruining competitive online gaming.

Indeed, and hence why MP achievements should not be. Achievements are supposed to measure your skill/progress in a game, YOUR, which makes MP achievements annoying because they mean other ****s craving for attention can easily ruin your achievements.

 

[Krynn72]

I've always thought achievements are stupid anyways. I've never played a game session with the intent of getting an achievement.

 

[VirusType2]

You collect all the stars in Mario64.

?

 

[Dinnesch]

I've always thought achievements are stupid anyways. I've never played a game session with the intent of getting an achievement.

Well, I do very often.
After I've finished a GTA game, and if I'm completely bored I go on trying to get it 100%(with an exception for the almost unfindable collectables). The older GTA's don't even include a achievement system but it just gives me a great feeling to completely master it.
On the 360/PS3 it's even better.

 

[Qonfused]

I have never give a shit about achievements either. I mocked my friends who had 360s about them wanting to get all the achievements. Then I got a 360...and yep, still pointless. I was really never up for completing a game 100% either (collecting X amount of these, etc.) so maybe that plays into it.

 

[VirusType2]

The only 'achievements' I've ever cared about are offline ones that reward you with new weapons, selectable characters or something else tangible.

Anyway, I don't play consoles so I don't have to worry about it much.

 

[Absinthe]

I never really cared for achievements. Even in TF2 I only got the minimum amount for the unlocks.

But... World of Warcraft gives me a fancy dragon mount if I get a few of them. So now I slave on those.

 

[kazsymonds]

Achievements are awesome.

Disconnecting from a game should count as a defeat.

 

[the cow says moo]

Disconnecting from a game should count as a defeat.

This. Developers should do this in their games.

The only game that I ever got 100% of the achievements was Oblivion, because all of the achievements are rewarded to you after completing a quest, guild, or the game, which meant that I got achievements for doing what I would have done without getting achievements. With games like Bionic Commando, most of the achievements get me upgrades for my weapons. The only other time I care about achievements are when they're quick and easy to get.

Why do people cheat in multiplayer games? What satisfaction do they get for doing it if there's no challenge?

 

[Gargantou]

As I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, the problem with disconnections counting as defeats, is that this means the devs have to have their own dedicated servers for their games, like EA did with Fight Night Round 3.

Many devs do not wish to do this as they view it as a useless investment on their part.

 

[Warped]

I have never give a shit about achievements either. I mocked my friends who had 360s about them wanting to get all the achievements. Then I got a 360...and yep, still pointless. I was really never up for completing a game 100% either (collecting X amount of these, etc.) so maybe that plays into it.

I'm the same way, I think I have like 1 game that has 100% complete and its the Arcade game UNO! I love playing a wide variety of games on Easy or Normal and seeing a lot more of different genres. Bragging rights are a waste of time

 

[Gargantou]

Well, Achievements can be a real bother for people like myself whom suffer from OCD, which means we can quite easily become obsessive about things, to the point that it is detrimental to our health(mental or physical).

We can't simply choose not to give a damn.

 

[Asknoone]

I don't mind achievements (they can be relatively entertaining), but considering I have some pretty intensive OCD, and I'm off my medication, it's currently driving me nuts in TF2. I am not prepared to make some kind of alarmist issue of it though.

 

[PvtRyan]

The problem here is that you were playing on Xbox Live. One of the most immature online communities I've ever been a part of. With the exception of YouTube, there is no bigger gathering of douchebags.

 

[VirusType2]

Why do people cheat in multiplayer games? What satisfaction do they get for doing it if there's no challenge?

Some people enjoy ruining other peoples fun or making them angry. It's a control thing.

Well, Achievements can be a real bother for people like myself whom suffer from OCD, which means we can quite easily become obsessive about things, to the point that it is detrimental to our health(mental or physical).

We can't simply choose not to give a damn.

My sister has that. She used to wash her hands for almost 10 minutes. I would be standing there like stop, your hands are bleeding, please stop. She KNEW she was doing it, but she couldn't help it. She was seeing a doctor and trying different medications ... finally, they found a medication that works. She seems completely normal now, and has been for like 5 years. It seems they have really made a lot of progress with these medications in recent years.

If you have health care, then take advantage of it while you can, and see a doctor.

 

[Gargantou]

Neuro-based medication is very dangerous, for example, Zoloft can help some people greatly with stabilizing their moods, but it can also make people suicidal.

Trust me, I've explored the option, Sweden has free healthcare so, I've really explored it.

My OCD today is still nothing compared to when I was younger, for about 1 year it was so bad that the minute I touched someone on the bus or subway etc, I mean just even nudged someone with say my arm or something, when I came home, I'd have to take of all my clothes and put them in the washing machine, all of them, even if they were perfectly clean, because I touched another person.

Also, that's the thing that annoys me with MP achievements, lack of control.

Achievements are supposed to be a measure of YOUR achievements, this is not so when they're MP based, then it becomes a measure of your LUCK, lucky in getting teamed up with morons, or unlucky and getting teamed up against cheaters/pros.

 

[knut]

I don't mind achievements. The only achievements I end up getting are usually the ones that cater towards how I like to play i.e. for a vague example, killing a certain amount of players, but that's the aim of the specific game so whatever. I don't aim to go out and slaughter, it just happens and if something pops up after I've done something without me realising... well, cool I guess. For more ridiculous achievements, I simply don't do them unless it's something interesting or something that I don't mind doing. Finding all the pigeons in GTA is something I don't find interesting so I can dig not doing it. Really, who is going to care if I have or haven't? I see alot of people saying they get flack off of others for not having 1000 out of 1000 for something... seriously, does this actually happen? I know for one thing that I am far too lazy to go onto someones gamer profile mid game and then browse all the way through their libary. I'm also pretty fine with someone trying to get one up on me over a video game.

The only game I've seen achievements being a focus in is Halo, and that's only ever in a specific weekend playable playlist that comes around every few months. The difference with Halo is the reward coming in summer, which I think is the Recon armour. I don't care, really, but others do and as it's only a playlist that is rarely online then it's no biggie to me.

Honestly though, I've seen more things ruined in games that haven't got achievements for they were around before the term - stats padding. Battlefield 2 is ripe with people trying to get ribbons and badges and in the end, what's the difference between a ribbon for 1000 medic heals and an achievement of something similar? Technically, achievements have been around for a long, long while.

To the matter of disconnecting during a game... I don't think stats in COD4 (maybe 5) carry over if you quit out. I know you don't get EXP points, anyway. I think.

 

[unozero]

Having just played UFC 2009 for the X-Box 360 for most of the day I can safely say that it is one of the prime examples as to why I'm opposed to multiplayer-themed achievements.

1. They are usually very boring and grindish(xxx amount of ranked wins)

2. They encourage people to use stuff like lagswitches to get an upperhand.

3. They encourage people to disconnect if they're about to lose, in order to be able to maintain their high ranks.

I am guessing the devs probably don't give a rats ass about my opinion, but I felt it's worth voicing it anyway.

Probably around 75% of my matches in the game have ended with the opposing part disconnecting their internet cable in order to avoid a defeat, 20% have been people using lagswitches to temporarily 'halt' the match and get an upper hand, the final 5% are decent people who actually play for fun, not to be assholes.

I just felt I needed to vent my opinions on this bullshit a bit.

Also, I am aware online cheating has existed before achievements, but IMO, things like achievements and trophies, gamerscores etc, ENCOURAGE cheating.

At least when they're multiplayer achievements.

Does anyone else share my views on this horrible, horrible concept?

I always though achievements were a silly thing,this just reinforces my opinion.

 

[Blackthorn]

Achievements/Trophies in singleplayer games = Absolute genius.

Achievements/Trophies in multiplayer games = Worst new idea of this generation.

 

[VirusType2]

Neuro-based medication is very dangerous, for example, Zoloft can help some people greatly with stabilizing their moods, but it can also make people suicidal.

I know, this is true, it's very dangerous. They say you have to settle in. Your body goes haywire at first. But I've seen it work wonders for some people - not necessarily Zoloft though; don't know what it was.

Anyway, so, achievements?

 

[jimbo118]

I've never played a game session with the intent of getting an achievement.

This.

 

[Gargantou]

Achievements/Trophies in singleplayer games = Absolute genius.

Achievements/Trophies in multiplayer games = Worst new idea of this generation.

Exactly my opinion! I love you for sharing my exact opinion on the matter!

 

[Deleted member 56031]

Well, Achievements can be a real bother for people like myself whom suffer from OCD, which means we can quite easily become obsessive about things, to the point that it is detrimental to our health(mental or physical).

We can't simply choose not to give a damn.

This *high five*

I've got to make sure I can get as many achievements as humanly possible but even then it bugs me when I don't get them all (either that or I just try to put it to the back of my mind a la TF2). Even then I've still never gotten a platinum trophy on my ps3.

It also drives me crazy if I buy stuff because then I must buy all the other connected stuff to it (unless I am personally offended by the thought of it like spiderman 3, indy 4 or american psycho 2)e.g. I bought the complete x-files box set so now I just bought the lone gunmen set and am going to buy millennium complete set.

I've never been on medication though (like I've never had to clean myself after something) the worst it gets is when I go on holiday I'll check to make sure every plug socket is turned off throughout the house like at least 5 times :|