NBC films US soldier committing war crime

[CptStern]

US soldier murders wounded unarmed iraqi

"A second group of Marines entered the mosque on Saturday after reports it had been reoccupied. Footage from the embedded television crew showed the five still in the mosque, although several appeared to be already close to death, Sites said.


He said one Marine noticed one of the prisoners was still breathing.


A Marine can be heard saying on the pool footage provided to Reuters Television: "He's f***ing faking he's dead. He faking he's f***ing dead."


"The Marine then raises his rifle and fires into the man's head. The pictures are too graphic for us to broadcast," Sites said. No images of the shooting were shown in the footage provided to Reuters."


this act breaks the very first geneva accord from 1864, which explicitly forbids the killing of wounded soldiers

 

[bliink]

well, thats what you get when you train people to kill others without feeling.

 

[gh0st]

killing wounded soldiers? does that encompass "dirty ass terrorist"? soldiers dont use civilians as shields, im sorry. id have shot his ass too, thats what you do with the enemy.

 

[bliink]

killing wounded soldiers? does that encompass "dirty ass terrorist"? soldiers dont use civilians as shields, im sorry. id have shot his ass too, thats what you do with the enemy.

no, its not what you do with the enemy; you capture the enemy, you kill them if they are shooting back.

lowering yourself to their level is not wise, or fitting of what you would be attempting to protect

 

[CptStern]

killing wounded soldiers? does that encompass "dirty ass terrorist"? soldiers dont use civilians as shields, im sorry. id have shot his ass too, thats what you do with the enemy.

are you trying to justify the murder? who says the soldier used a civilian as a shield? the iraqis were wounded on the floor, dying and unarmed ..the US soldier shot him point blank in the head ...he wasnt a threat to anyone

read the article it is AGAINST THE LAW to murder a wounded soldier

btw your government seems to think a crime was committed (probably cuz they couldnt refute the evidence)

 

[gh0st]

are you trying to justify the murder? who says the soldier used a civilian as a shield? the iraqis were wounded on the floor, dying and unarmed ..the US soldier shot him point blank in the head ...he wasnt a threat to anyone

read the article it is AGAINST THE LAW to murder a wounded soldier

ok i admit, youre right. but do you think an iraqi "soldier" would have done the same?

 

[CptStern]

I'm glad you saw the error, but far more disturbing is the fact that you were willing to throw your support to the US soldier without knowing the facts ...that's exhibiting a bias ..we're all human beings, I dont care what nationality it is, if a crime has been commited the guilty parties should pay

 

[bliink]

ok i admit, youre right. but do you think an iraqi "soldier" would have done the same?

well, maybe not- you can't say for sure, but it doesnt mean it would be ok to do it to them.

 

[gh0st]

do you think the iraqi "soldier" would be tried for anything after he shot the wounded marine? i doubt it. stern ill always throw my support inf ront of a us soldier over an iraqi one, no matter what the circumstances, though i admit that he should be punished

 

[Sparta]

What an idiot. I hope he gets what he deserves.

 

[bliink]

do you think the iraqi "soldier" would be tried for anything after he shot the wounded marine? i doubt it. stern ill always throw my support inf ront of a us soldier over an iraqi one, no matter what the circumstances, though i admit that he should be punished

'course, but if there were a debate here, it would be over the actions of the us 'soldier' (a true soldier wouldnt shoot a wounded/defenceless person), rather than the hypothetical actions of an iraqi 'soldier'

 

[CptStern]

do you think the iraqi "soldier" would be tried for anything after he shot the wounded marine? i doubt it. stern ill always throw my support inf ront of a us soldier over an iraqi one, no matter what the circumstances, though i admit that he should be punished

well that's where we differ ..I throw my support behind those that are deserving ...being a certain nationality guarentees nothing in my book

btw who cares if the iraqi soldier is tried or not, we cant hold them under the same laws the US has. You are supposed to be the liberator.

personally I think he should be charged with second degree (first degree if they can prove intent) and no slap on the wrist, no discharge ..serve the full term for murder ..actually if they were smart they'd throw the book at him, use him as an example ...prove to the world that the US will not condone war crimes

 

[Sparta]

Are they sure he wasn't a resistance fighter who simply dropped his weapon after he was wounded?

Wait, a second...Even if he was a resistance fighter, its still murder

Nevermind me, i'm just out of it today

 

[gh0st]

'course, but if there were a debate here, it would be over the actions of the us 'soldier' (a true soldier wouldnt shoot a wounded/defenceless person), rather than the hypothetical actions of an iraqi 'soldier'

no debate. just pointing out who has the higher ground. a true soldier doesnt hide in schools and hospitals either.

edit: moreover, a wounded man is just as dangerous as an unscathed one, especially in close quarters (obviously). we dont have the full facts, we'd need to see the video. all we have is this journalists word.

edit2: waiiit wait. the journalist calls this insurgent a "prisoner." why the hell would the marine shoot him if he's already a prisoner, because hes faking dead. thats the stupidest thing ever, i doubt it worked out like how this guy is portraying it.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

do you think the iraqi "soldier" would be tried for anything after he shot the wounded marine? i doubt it. stern ill always throw my support inf ront of a us soldier over an iraqi one, no matter what the circumstances, though i admit that he should be punished

I dunno about that. I keep hearing things like that, that the iraqis aren't playing by the rules, so anything goes.
The minute we break our own laws is the minute we become our own enemy.
The entire point of the war at this stage is to spread western values. It defeats the point if we disregard those values in the process.

I mean, he was unarmed. What if that guy wasn't a terrorist?

The question isn't what would an Iraqi soldier want to do to a wounded american.
It's what you would want to have happened if it were a US soldier on the ground there, with an insurgent standing over him.
It's the golden rule.

 

[bliink]

no debate. just pointing out who has the higher ground. a true soldier doesnt hide in schools and hospitals either.

edit: moreover, a wounded man is just as dangerous as an unscathed one, especially in close quarters (obviously). we dont have the full facts, we'd need to see the video. all we have is this journalists word.

edit2: waiiit wait. the journalist calls this insurgent a "prisoner." why the hell would the marine shoot him if he's already a prisoner, because hes faking dead. thats the stupidest thing ever, i doubt it worked out like how this guy is portraying it.

well, it wont be long before the video is leaked on to one of those repulsive 'snuff' sites, you can see it for yourself then.
As horribile as it is, I'm sure an argument cant really exist until all arguing parties have seen the video thats being argued over

 

[Tr0n]

It's war people deal with it.I think that marine should be put on trial and be punished...but again it is war.

 

[gh0st]

It's war people deal with it.I think that marine should be put on trial and be punished...but again it is war.

yeah none of us know what happened so all we can do is comment on the article itself.

 

[JimmehH]

I saw a US soldier shoot a trapped and wounded insurgent on Channel 5.

Well, the Iraqi was in an alley and it just showed the soldier shooting into the alley and saying that he (the Iraqi) wasn't a problem any more.

This was after a long gun fight with this man. And he had injured a few soldiers.

Although, to me, the Fallujah operation seems to have been a bit cocked-up.

 

[bliink]

Although, to me, the Fallujah operation seems to have been a bit cocked-up.

I read this in operation flashpoint:
"You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake."

 

[CptStern]

how can you all be so blase? the geneva accords (which the US signed) clearly says it is a war crime to shoot prisoners or wounded. The iraqis in question were both ... plus they were unarmed

they have it on tape, it'll be an open and shut case. He'll plead guilty, and will probably get a reduced sentence

 

[CptStern]

I saw a US soldier shoot a trapped and wounded insurgent on Channel 5.

Well, the Iraqi was in an alley and it just showed the soldier shooting into the alley and saying that he (the Iraqi) wasn't a problem any more.

This was after a long gun fight with this man. And he had injured a few soldiers.

Although, to me, the Fallujah operation seems to have been a bit cocked-up.

if it's the same soldier I'm thinking of then he was charged with murder ..I've seen the video as well

 

[Spartan]

Isn't this obvious? The soldier had been playing Teamfortress so much that he mistook the wounded man for a spy feigning death.

It's videogames that caused this.

 

[Hapless]

I'd just like to point out that the Geneva Conventions apply to UNIFORMED SOLDIERS fighting under the auspices of a nation. Not a ragtag group of insurgents and terrorists. Thank you, that is all.

 

[Absinthe]

Wow. Good job, moron.

 

[poksmote]

If you watch the tape you can see the two teams have no idea what is going on, and for all we know the iraqi could've been faking it only to draw a gun out from under him as they passed by.

The soldier in question isn't very bright if he's killing someone as a TV camera films it. But if the camera wasn't there, no one would ever have known or cared. This kinda thing happened all the time in Vietnam and it's happening now, as with any war where soldiers are trained to feel no remourse and belittle the enemy.

Those soldiers are probably scared as hell, and to them a dead possible threat is better than a living one. The iraqi terrorists are beheading american citizens with dull knives for christ's sake, it's not like they're exactly playing by the rules either.

I've got friends over there who have seen children ripped apart by AK rounds, or terrorist brain matter leak from a skull like yoke from an eggshell. Things are beyond ****ed up over there - the soldiers are doing whatever they can to just stay alive.

 

[falconwind]

Yes, this not only violates the Geneva Convention, but also, the Rules of Engagement, which states you cannot engage a target unless it is hostile.

The insurgents did not pose a threat, and therefore, no shots should have been fired at all.

As I remember it from CNN, the exact dialogue is as follows:

"He's f***ing faking he's dead. He's faking he's f***ing dead."
<gunshot>
"Well, he's dead now."

Now, just because he was lying very still and breathing doesn't mean he was faking it, as the marines deduced. He could very well have been unconscious from his wounds.

As it looks right now, it was a cold-blooded execution.

There shouldn't be too much trouble, as far as investigation and rulings, since it was ll caught on tape.

 

[falconwind]

My bad, here's the right dialogue:

He's f****** faking he's dead. He's faking he's f****** dead."
"Yeah, he's breathing."
<gunshot>
"Dead now."

 

[Javert]

do you think the iraqi "soldier" would be tried for anything after he shot the wounded marine? i doubt it. stern ill always throw my support inf ront of a us soldier over an iraqi one, no matter what the circumstances, though i admit that he should be punished

Regardless of what our enemy does to us, we do not stoop to their level. We set the example, not mire ourselves into that which we fight against.
Their actions irrelevant to ours. Clearly, we have different standards.

 

[Tr0n]

In war theres no such thing as standards....only alive and dead...win or lose. (btw, I don't mean this as we should just let it slip by or do what the enemy is doing.Just saying in war...it's about survival.)

 

[Eg.]

ok, the thing is the terrorsists have used bodies as cover for land mines, even those that are just wounded, secondly the video does not show the marine actually shooting him. yes, the marine shot him, but we dont see wha the wounded man was doing, clutching a grenade, or an ak, if that happened, i see no problem


the news and those talking about it carry it to negativly, OMg he committed a warcrime, well, not if the guy she shot was armed, anti-americans fill in the videos black with whatever baby-killing image they have of the US, and by the topic of this thread, u can see that

 

[CptStern]

I'd just like to point out that the Geneva Conventions apply to UNIFORMED SOLDIERS fighting under the auspices of a nation. Not a ragtag group of insurgents and terrorists. Thank you, that is all.

then why are they considering war crimes charges?

not one comment? I'm surprised Hapless, I'm especially curious as to your opinion

 

[Venmoch]

Lets just put it this way.

The US does not know the first thing about Peacekeeping. At all. Of course your going to alienate peeple driving round in hummers eyeing up all potential threats.

The UK have done this thing for ages. I remember seeing a group of soldiers getting taught Peacekeeping skills and it was stuff as simple as "If someone has a grenade, they are a threat to you and your squad, as soon as they throw the grenade, they are not a threat, the grenade is."

I still don't understand why the Americans talk with the UK about Peacekeeping. We've been dealing with terrorism for 20 years and know quite a lot about it......

 

[CptStern]

ok, the thing is the terrorsists have used bodies as cover for land mines, even those that are just wounded, secondly the video does not show the marine actually shooting him. yes, the marine shot him, but we dont see wha the wounded man was doing, clutching a grenade, or an ak, if that happened, i see no problem

this happened in a mosque there was no mine. And yes you do see the marine shooting him, do yourself a favour and read the article before making comments on it, you're coming across as a fool

the news and those talking about it carry it to negativly, OMg he committed a warcrime, well, not if the guy she shot was armed, anti-americans fill in the videos black with whatever baby-killing image they have of the US, and by the topic of this thread, u can see that

I've read it 3 times and I still havent been able to decipher what you're trying to say. You're either very young and hopelessly naive or you're a hypocrite and an ignorant fool. You get all hot and bothered when an american is killed yet when a US soldier murders an iraqi you try to justify it.

 

[^Ben]

Idiot solider.

Makes the rest of the army look bad.

Throw the book at him.

 

[Icarusintel]

maybe if you all were in iraq getting shot at you'd have more reason to comment, beyond that, it's easy to look at a situation from the outside and say what is right and wrong, but how is it from the inside?

 

[^Ben]

Do you wanna know how terrorists recruit more terrorists?

They use images like theese.

 

[CptStern]

maybe if you all were in iraq getting shot at you'd have more reason to comment, beyond that, it's easy to look at a situation from the outside and say what is right and wrong, but how is it from the inside?

still doesnt justify murder

 

[rkef]

still doesnt justify murder

Oh, sure it does. The new guiding ethic is that the world has changed, and all lessons learned from history are subject to re-evaluation or outright immolation. Summary execution is the new global justice.

 

[Hapless]

then why are they considering war crimes charges?

not one comment? I'm surprised Hapless, I'm especially curious as to your opinion

They are investigating POSSIBLE war crimes. We don't know what those crimes are, in particular. We also don't know exactly what went down in this situation. It's very easy to look at a video, which is one dimensional and only tells a part of the story, and draw conclusions. It will also be extremely difficult to prove up murder charges against a Marine in combat. I assume people are innocent until proven guilty up in Canada, too, aren't they Stern?

My opinion matters to you? I'm quite touched....