Need new PC, advice/suggestions please

Mutley

Mutley

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The PC I have now is right on the edge of becoming a lump of silicon. It's just old and it would be cheaper to just buy new parts than try and fix it and waste time on it. All I want, is RAM, CPU and Mobo and some decent cooling.

I like the 6300e, as I hear awesome benchmarks and... 3.5ghz overclocking capability? So I would want to go for this beast, cheap too. Just don't know what cooling and motherboard is needed. RAM I would like 2 to 3 gb, I have 1gb now and it just isn't enough for games. I see a lot of this really cheap RAM, then really expensive RAM, in my eyes, RAM is RAM 3gb value will do better than 2gb overclocked expensive, right?

My plan is to buy a decent CPU/RAM/Mobo now, then to go with a Vista and DX10 card when the time comes that I need one (for games). Ideas? Thanks guyz. My Budget is 400 GBP or abouts, if paying more is worth it I would, in a sensible value way. :P
 
Yeah, the e6300 sounds like the way to go. I would stick with even numbers with the Memory. 2 sticks to run in dual channel (1GB each) for a total of 2GB. Or 2x 2GB for 4GB but that is a waste for a desktop. You wouldn't use it all and 32bit Windows can't see it all.
 
stay with 2gb, you will see negative performance if you go to 3 sticks.
4gb wont make any difference so dont bother with that either.

==============================================================================================
Neptune recommends:

E6300
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-135-IN

DFI Infinity 975X (Socket 775) PCI-Express DDR2 Motherboard
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-020-DF

Corsair 2X1 GB DDR2 @ 533mhz
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-096-CS

7600GS Silent
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-082-LT

Arctic cooler
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-017-AR

Total: 454.67 pounds inc VAT

You can then upgrade to a DX10 card later on this year! Go you! It will overclock like a bitch too!!

==============================================================================================


system:

E6300 @ 2.16Ghz (will overclock to approx 3ghz on same voltage easily)
Geforce 7600GS Silent
2X1 Gb Corsair DDR2
DFI Infinity 975X mobo

For 455 quid the performance will be amazing, shove a DX10 card in it and you will be playing Crysis and UT 2007 no probs! :)












OOORRRRRR, If you just want a fresh base unit without messing around with parts then I recommend setting up your system here!
http://www.ginger6.com/intel-core-e6300-base-unit-p-9396.html
 
So will Crysis and DX10 games, I'm probably thinking of a ATI R600, play full with the 6300? I know there is no specifications out yet but I hope these GPUs are what they are made out to be.

That fan is rather cheap, although I will be getting case fans and stuff. Is ?20 normal for a CPU fan? I would spend more but wouldn't go water cooling or anything crazy.

Thanks guys, huge help!

EDIT: Is there any benchmarks of an overclocked e6300?
 
Mutley said:
So will Crysis and DX10 games, I'm probably thinking of a ATI R600, play full with the 6300? I know there is no specifications out yet but I hope these GPUs are what they are made out to be.

That fan is rather cheap, although I will be getting case fans and stuff. Is ?20 normal for a CPU fan? I would spend more but wouldn't go water cooling or anything crazy.

Thanks guys, huge help!

EDIT: Is there any benchmarks of an overclocked e6300?
Click to expand...

That cooler is the dog's bollocks.
I have an E6400 2.13Ghz overclocked to 2.6ghz. PC has been on all day and it is idling at 35C, go figure.

These are the CPU benchmarks at stock speeds, behold how the E6400 completely obliterates most of the CPUs at everything running stock speed of 2.13Ghz. The E6300 will clock much higher than that!
You won't have any bottlenecks with the E6300 anyway, everyone keeps saying how great the E6300 and core 2 duo's are.


http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1=433&model2=464&chart=165





Mutley said:
Thanks NeptuneUK, huge help!
Click to expand...

Corrected :P
 
Yeah that CPU cooler is awesome. It's dirt cheap, comes with excellent cooling paste (pre-applied Arctic MX-1) and beats any other cooler (even top models from Zalman etc).

This thing kept my e6300 running at 3.5ghz at 40?C idle and 50?C load. Though that does not guarantee at all that you can reach that speed. I could but it was not stable at all, but that's because of my bad-luck-edition mainboard. I'm running it at 3003mhz now at 40?C idle and 60? load. That's because I had to increase the voltage dramatically to maintain stability.

This thing running at 3ghz is about as fast as the X6800 at stock speeds.


I'm with neptune, unless you plan on serious overclocking (higher than 2.4ghz). Actually if you plan to overclock at all, you do NOT want the RAM he linked.
 
I think 3ghz would be a nice speed for it, so I will be doing some overclocking (if I need it, which I probably will before a DX10 card). So that fan is what I'll go for. I'll replace all my 80mm fans too with something a bit faster, then my only other worry is sound the fans produce? :(

What does the 2mb/4mb cache do on Duos? Is 2mb sufficient? What's good RAM, when you say I don't want that RAM, do I not want it for Overclocking or in general? Thanks! :)
 
The first thing you want is choose for a motherboard with the 965P chipset (not the 975X). Then look for ram of at least pc6400 (ddr2-800) with at least 4-4-4-12 timings. I personally would get the e6400, because it can have a higher multiplier, thus faster speed at a lower FSB.

Btw, this is my story about my attempt on buying a pc that would reach 3.5ghz.
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=115275
And it would, if it was not for that stupid crappy buggy bad-luck mainboard. It's a P5B Deluxe, which is known to reach a FSB higher than 500 easily, but mine barely reaches 400.

edit
Oh yeah btw, the 2mb cache suffices no problem. It's just that the 4mb versions perform a little better. An e6600 (4m) running at 3.5ghz will beat an e6300 @ 3.6.
That ram he linked works on low speeds with high latency at default. What you want to do with overclocking the core2duos is run the fsb:ram divider at 1:1. What you essentially do with overclocking here, is lowering the ram speed (of pc6400) from 400mhz to 266mhz (the stock fsb of the cpu). Then what you do is just up the fsb by tiny ammounts each time. The ram will go with it, so if you put the fsb on 400mhz, the memory will run at 400mhz as well. So then the cpu is overclocked, while the ram is working at default speeds. Then you could try to go further and you will probably hit the speed limit of the ram. What you can do then is up the ram latency (from 4-4-4-12 to 5-5-5-15). That will give the ram a lot more headroom, and will probably reach to a fsb near 500. Cheap memory won't go much faster than their default speeds. So that ram he linked will default at 1:1. Since you can't set it any lower (default ram speed is 266mhz) it will not reach far beyond its stock speed, so you can't get the cpu faster either. 1:1 IS THE LOWEST MEMORY DEVIDER FOR CORE2DUO BTW.

You will want to completely understand what I just said before you get into serious overclocking.
 
No, the 2mb cache performs the same as the 4mb cache in games. It only makes a difference in other tasks.
Brick, he wanted to spend 400 pounds, what you are telling him to buy he can't afford.
My E6400 goes to 2.8ghz with the cheap ram I suggested on my rubbish motherboard, he would probably get to the same on a better one. Buying ram for twice the price to get an extra 200 -300mhz overclock is hardly worth it. The extra ?100 can be spent on a E6600 instead of a E6300, think about it.
The ram I chose is fine for me, 'overclockers' ram is out of your price range, not worth the price (double the price - 5% more performance! 15% more overclocking!) and kills kittens. I would have suggested some more expensive ram for you but you wanted 2GB of ram. And trust me 1gb of expensive ram won't mean shit with next year's games compared to 2gb of standard ram.
Also the motherboard I chose is an excellent overclocker and fantastic value at the price!
 
double the price - 5% more performance! 15% more overclocking!
Click to expand...
I don't know where you got those figures, but those are not really telling any truth. "Overclockers" ram means a specific model from a specific brand that can somehow overclock like crazy. They don't need to be really expensive. The overclock ability differs on any model. The more expensive modules will cope with higher speeds and thus overclock better.
Your linked ram would get the fsb to about 320mhz (e6300 @ 2240mhz) at best for 136 pounds.

THIS ram
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-108-CS

would get your fsb to about 580 (e6300 @ 4060mhz) for 160 pounds, if the rest of the system would do that too ofcourse. A worthy investment for overclocking, I'd say. Btw that ram is pretty much the best OC ram you can get.


Btw, getting the e6400 to 2.8ghz means the fsb would reach 350mhz. That would get the e6300 to 2450mhz. Not really impressive.
 
Ok, he wants to buy a decent system for 400 pounds. That ram is ~50% of the entire budget gone already (190 including tax). What about the motherboard, CPU and Graphics card? Im not saying you're wrong, but it's not worth the price in this scenario
 
He started about serious overclocking. You can't just do that with cheap stuff. If he wants to overclock he'll need to spend more. Overclocking is not cheap (well actually it is, but anyway) but it will give excellent performance for the price. So if he doesn't want to spend more, he should forget about reaching beyond 2.5ghz with an e6300.
 
If I had a better motherboard I would be well over 3Ghz with this RAM. With RAM double the price - who knows! Maybe I could get an extra 200mhz!!
Like I said before, if speed is so important that you buy overclockers ram. The money would be better spent towards the next processor model up the line! More bang for your buck as you say.
 
25 pounds for 67% extra ram performance would, in my eyes, be worth it. That way you can totally remove the ram bottleneck for overclocking and reach a lot higher cpu speed, thus more bang for the buck, mister.
 
You 2 have confused me, lol.

I didn't say I wanted 3.5ghz clock speeds, I said I heard that you can and 3ghz is plenty, even 2.5ghz but I don't want to buy a CPU that will be the bottleneck of my DX10 gaming year.

To me, RAM is RAM, it comes in 2 flavours, 512mb and 1gb - that's all I know about it. I've overclocked before but nothing that has required special RAM. So this part has really confused me, I thought the RAM and CPU were completely separate.

Remember that I'm lookin for best value, with a ?400 budget, if paying an extra ?100 will REALLY be the best value in the long term I would do that. ;)
 
Then listen to NeptuneUK, (best bargain hunter ev0r!)]
Dont confuse yourself, I went and found you some components in my first post that would kick ass for you!
 
Do you already have a decent PCIe videocard? Or do you have an AGP card.


edit: if you don't need a new vidcard, you can throw the 7600gs out ofcourse.
This is what I would get and what would overclock far beyond 3ghz and would be really futureproof and a really great bang for the buck. Oh and it would kick ass.
http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/5608/mutleypcyr2.png
 
I have a Nvid 6600, PCI-e to be honest it runs alright but my current CPU and RAM is getting worse by the day, it just gets so hot and unefficent.

I won't buy a new GPU until DX10 which isn't far off (I hope) but I can't see any games other than DX10 that I want, so a GPU isn't necessary. :)

So that setup Brick is pretty mint! Where is that from?
 
whatever you do, i recommend an ASUS mobo. They're very easy to work with and fast. And for the processor, take the next step up to a E6600. I have it and its amazing, as for Cheap ram, corsair is the way to go.
 
Mutley said:
I have a Nvid 6600, PCI-e to be honest it runs alright but my current CPU and RAM is getting worse by the day, it just gets so hot and unefficent.

I won't buy a new GPU until DX10 which isn't far off (I hope) but I can't see any games other than DX10 that I want, so a GPU isn't necessary. :)

So that setup Brick is pretty mint! Where is that from?
Click to expand...

http://www.overclockers.co.uk


My opinion, get the stuff I listed without the 7600gs. It conforms to your 400GBP (well almost) and it will rock your socks. When you're going to overclock it you might want to add me to xfire or msn. I researched the board a lot and I have it myself. I'll help you all I can.
xfire: onithebrick
 
It's not long until I get a big wad of cash, end of January. So I can finally consider a new PC.

I had 2nd thoughts about DX10, at the moment I have a Nvidia 6600. The ATi 1950 Pro is 130GBP at Overclockers.co.uk. I was wondering if this would be a good buy with the rest of the system above until the R600 settles in and benchmarks/reviews for DX10 games start arriving (2-3 months at least!) so I make the right choice in buying a DX10 card.

AND would it be a good idea to buy this stuff now or wait the 2-3 months and see what is out CPU/RAM wise and get it all together when it might be a bit cheaper or same budget but better hardware?
 
Get it now, then go R600 when DX10 is ripe.
That's my plan, my X1950Pro struggles with nothing at TFT res - 70fps in BF2142 anyone?
 
Personally i would wait a couple of months, the R600 will be out, some mid range dx10 cards will be around, there will be a greater choice. Prices may have dropped a touch by then, and you may have a little more money to spend. I'd wait and buy it all in one go.

I'd also recommend avoiding budget ram if you want a reasonable overclock. If you look at prices of ddr2 at the moment you'll see that you can get 2gb of 800mhz ddr2 with 4-4-4-12 timings for about 10 pounds more than 2gb of 667mhz corsair value with 5-5-5-15 timings.
 
If your not going to overclock, then the stock cooler that comes with the processor is adeqaute for the job (My E6400 runs between 20-30 degrees celsius)
 
Still planning, think I'm ready to get my RAM.

I saw this:
http://overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-072-OC
...and was thinking of 4gb? It comes to about ?240.

That's instead of 2gb of this:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-124-CS
...for ?170

Which would you go for? I was thinking maybe just the 2gb (which is better quality right?) then I can always get more later if I needed. Also, I will be overclocking, in which I don't know how much RAM effects overclocking.
 
here's my config.

CPU: E6600 - the cheapest 4Mb of shared cache
mobo: 680i - for a good OC and future SLI.
mem: 2 X 1024Mb - with EPP and CL4-4-4-12 in 800MHz no more no less.
PSU - 550 to 680W - reliable again for OC.

VGA: my dilemma too :rolling: get a 8800gtx/s now or wait for future cards.
 
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