Networking 3 or more PCs

[VirusType2]

I want to set up 3 or more computers in the same room to file share and file transfer.

I used an Ethernet crossover cable to do this between 2 computers. Each computer has it's own wireless internet connection and so the Ethernet port is fitted with the crossover cable to share and transfer files.

However, when I add a 3rd or 4th computer into the mix, I'm not sure how to set this up since I would need more than one Ethernet port on the middleman computer/s.

What I thought about trying would be to install more than one Ethernet adapter to PCI slots, but I have a feeling they won't play nice and it won't work.

I've got one of these, could this work?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linksys_WRT54G_series

I don't know if that would work because it is a router and I don't have a direct line to the internet. All my computers receive the internet wirelessly. I just wanted to use it as a multiple crossover. I think I tried it before a long time ago and didn't have any luck.

What is the cheapest way to set up this workgroup/network?

 

[kazsymonds]

That will work, you may need to forward ftp ports though.

How are you currently sharing files? With an ftp server or via the horrible windows way?

 

[VirusType2]

That will work, you may need to forward ftp ports though.

The router would work?

How are you currently sharing files? With an ftp server or via the horrible windows way?

ftp server? over the internet? That would be really slow with my connection.

Right now I'm using windows XP on all 3 computers. It's a bit crappy to set up the workgroup, but I found a good guide and followed it. Once it's set up, it's really easy and effective.


I appreciate the help, but the advice has gotten me nowhere.

 

[DreamThrall]

If all of your computers are already getting internet access wirelessly, there's no need to buy a WRT54 or any other router. In fact, it will likely make things more confusing since it will add another wireless network near your computers. The only reason I'd recommend buying that over a plain old switch is if you plan on getting a standard internet connection in the future.

All you need is something like this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833124016

You can probably find something even cheaper, but all you need is a 4 or 5-port switch.

I can't recall if switches generally have DHCP or not, but you'll just need to make sure you use a different private subnet than the wireless connections. (ie, if your wireless gives you an IP of 192.168.1.1, use 10.1.1.1 or something like that on the wired connections). If the switch doesn't have DHCP (which I don't think they do), you'll just need to configure the IP addresses manually on each of your computers.

By the way, you wouldn't want to use NICs for this, because you'd need 2^n NICs, where n is the number of computers... plus you'd probably need to be doing NAT on each computer, which is a pain, and you'd need to learn subnetting, which is also a pain.

Also, wired is much faster than wireless for file transfer on a local network.

Also also, kaz is right, an FTP server would be more efficient than windows filesharing - not over the internet, just on your local network once you get it all set up.

Also also also, I totally misread your OP and realized you said you already *HAD* one of those routers....

So, everything I said pretty much stands, except for the buying something part, and you'll certainly have DHCP on your WRT54.

Also also also also, if it doesn't work like that, try using static IPs instead of DHCP and don't specify a default gateway on the computers. This should stop the computer from trying to use that connection to access the internet, but should still allow communication on the local network.

 

[VirusType2]

First, thanks for your time.

If I remember correctly, using my wireless router only as a switch confuses the computer because it is expecting me to have an internet cable plugged in. Expecting me to be the main access point when I'm not.

Damn this is too complicated. I don't know how to do any of the things you said.

This is going to be very frustrating and not worth it.

I would try the switch you linked to, but I've got another linksys workgroup switch (can't remember the model) but it doesn't have the feature that allows it to work as a crossover (or something). Maybe if I used it with 2 crossover cables then I'd be done??

Most likely, I'll just settle with 2 computers until I get wired internet access, then it will be simple to link them using a router.

 

[DreamThrall]

If you've got a switch, use that, and just use normal (non-crossover) network cable.

 

[No Limit]

The thing is that all these computers are probably already linked together through the wireless network. What dreamthrall said is dead on, if you have a simple switch I would use that instead of using a full blown router. If you use a cross over cable on a switch I dont think it will work (Im not positive on this), you should be using just a regular ethernet cable.

Just remember to manually configure the IP addresses on all your computers:

http://www.home-network-help.com/set-ip.html

I would use 10.10.10.x for the IP address (replace X with a unique number to each computer, for example computer one would be 10.10.10.5 and computer two would be 10.10.10.6 and so on).

The only other setting you would need to set is the subnet mask which would be 255.255.255.0 ; you can leave the DNS servers and the gateway fields empty.

 

[DreamThrall]

Crossover cables will not work... unless you plug it into the WAN port, but there's only one of those, and it's possible that will make things even more confusing.

 

[Asus]

Dreamthrall is right. You might just confuse yourself if you try try to bring the crossover cable into this configuration with a switch or router. The only time you need a crossover cable is when you connect 2 PCs directly without a network device in between. When you have a switch or hub doing networking between your PCs (including the 4 port switch built-in on most routers and wireless routers) then you just use normal cat5 or 6 cable. The reason crossover cables work between PCs directly is because 2 wires have flipped positions on one end of the cable compared to a normal cat5 or 6 cable. They are specific to their own configurations.

If you have a router with a built-in 4 port switch then just use the 4 ports that are together. Don't make the mistake of plugging one into the WAN port. You wouldn't need to open up any firewall or ports if you stick to the 4 ports belonging to the switch.

I had an old netgear wireless router. I've used it just for the 4 port switch built-in all the time. Sometimes I even set it up a bit different to use it as a wireless access point. The only thing my model couldn't do was work as a wireless bridge.

 

[VirusType2]

I tried for many frustrating hours many months back, it wouldn't work with my switch no matter how hard I tried. Finally, I downloaded the manual and from what I understood, it literally said the model I have cannot do it.

The manual covered several similar models. My model doesn't have the following feature:

EZXS16W only:
The 10/100 16-Port Switch is equipped with a crossover button (labeled MDI/MDIX) that enables port 16 to be used as the switch’s uplink port. To utilize the port’s uplink capability, the MDI/MDIX button must be depressed.
If the button is not depressed, port 16 will function as a normal 10/100 port.

I guess all mine can do is split wired internet from a broadband modem to up to 4 computers... wait... It does have an uplink port, what is that for? The model number of mine is EZXS55W v2 (5-Port)

I couldn't find any confirmation on the internet about other models or from other people that had gotten it to work so I had given up. Oh, and then I got rid of the 3rd computer so I didn't need to do this anymore. But now have a new computer so I want to try again.

This shit isn't well documented and I just want one that I'm certain will work. What model Netgear do you have Asus?

 

[soulslicer]

I'm reading through all this and it's confusing. The easiest way is the way you mentioned. Get the WRT54G (4 ports) (it's like 60 SGD in my country > 40USD?)

and that's it. You don't need to install or set up anything. Just plug in your standard lan cables and you can share files with ease, just by creating shared folder.

the reason I say that is because the 4 or 5 port switches seem almost as costly as the router..

 

[Asus]

Uplink is for when you want to daisy chain switches. It will automatically switch between a normal port and an uplink or there will be a button to toggle it. Ignore it though. You are not using it.

If you connect your 3 PCs directly to this switch they will all talk to each other fine. There is no need for crossover cables or a crossover feature. In fact they need to be NOT present.
PC1 ->cat5 cable -> Port 1 on switch
PC2 ->cat5 cable -> Port 2 on switch
PC3 ->cat5 cable -> Port 3 on switch

 

[AtomicSpark]

You don't need to use crossover cables with Gigabit Ethernet adapters. Most motherboards now come with them and they have auto-negotiation built in. Also, getting a switch with Gigabit ports would vastly improve your file-sharing needs.

And holy shit you guys make this way too complicated. Have one computer host all the files and have each user have their own account on there. Connect them all to the switch using patch cables ("normal" Ethernet cables). Then use SMB (the Windows sharing "thingy") or be "cool" and use Linux and SSHFS or SFTP. I'll even hold your hand and walk you through it if you ask nicely.

Notice that using a switch will not give your computer IP addresses on those interfaces. You must configure them manually (static configuration). Use 192.168.1.# as most devices default to that subnet. You could be "super cool" and install dhcp3-server on that Linux server I convinced you to set up.

 

[Ennui]

the amount of explaining compared to the ease of what he's trying to do in this thread boggles the mind a little

 

[No Limit]

And holy shit you guys make this way too complicated. Have one computer host all the files and have each user have their own account on there. Connect them all to the switch using patch cables ("normal" Ethernet cables). Then use SMB (the Windows sharing "thingy") or be "cool" and use Linux and SSHFS or SFTP. I'll even hold your hand and walk you through it if you ask nicely.

Did you just accuse everyone here of being too complicated and then went on to suggest linux and SFTP?

I don't understand why anyone would want to use FTP or SFTP over the standard windows file sharing services. Also, if for whatever reason you are going the FTP route don't over complicate things with encryption by going with SFTP; you are on a private LAN connecting 3 computers only you will be using, encryption is not only pointless but it will also decrease your performance as each packet has to be encrypted then decrypted.

 

[Rico]

Just plug all of your computers to your router using ethernet cables, and then enable windows file sharing on your local network. AtomicSpark is right, it boggles my mind to see people write essays and go through overtly complicated avenues just to share files on a local network. Seriously, just plug cat5 cables from your PC to your router. BAM, local area network.

 

[DreamThrall]

Alright, all you assholes complaining about "overcomplication" and "essays" apparently failed to notice the part where the OP said that all the computers were already connected to the internet via a wireless connection.

So yes, that introduces a complication, which makes the solution a little more complex than simply connecting all the computers to a switch or router and calling it a day.
Yes, he will need to use a specific subnet of IP addresses that don't conflict with the ones from the wireless network.
Yes, he will need to make sure there is no default gateway specified so that his computers know to continue using the wireless connection for internet access.
Yes, he will need to use normal cat5 cables instead of the crossover cables he (for some reason) keeps talking about.

And anyone who's ever tried to transfer lots of large files using windows filesharing knows it's kind of a bitch and that it's faster using FTP or robocopy or basically anything other than filesharing.

Maybe I explained a little more in my previous posts, but when I'm doing something to my computers and networking gear, I like to know why rather than just blindly following instructions from some guy on the internet, so I gave the OP the courtesy of explaining why I'm recommending the things I am.

 

[No Limit]

And anyone who's ever tried to transfer lots of large files using windows filesharing knows it's kind of a bitch and that it's faster using FTP or robocopy or basically anything other than filesharing.

Although I agree with everything else you said what benefits do you get by using FTP? The only real benefit I can see is having a queue which really doesn't seem all that important, I don't believe ftp will let you pause transfers or give you any other real benefits, will it?

 

[DreamThrall]

It should let you pause transfers, and I believe filesharing has a fair bit of overhead. Maybe it's just because I'm used to it biting me in the ass xferring over my corporate VPN, which goes over the WAN, and FTP is much faster there.

 

[No Limit]

If it allows you to pause transfers that would be a huge benefit, I'll take a look. I use filezilla, I'll check if that has a pause function.

I haven't had too many problems transfering over a VPN unless the connection is somehow lost which would also bite you in the ass using FTP. The main thing I don't like is under XP the transfer rate isn't shown; I think Vista now has this.

 

[Asus]

I'm not sure anyone has asked but why do you keep those 3 computers on a wireless network and then do a separate wired network?

As say opposed to the 3 on a wired network like a switch (maybe gigabit even! for filesharing) and use a wireless bridge also plugged into the switch to let your PCs get to your wifi network?

 

[Rico]

^ That's how I've done it in the past. A switch shouldn't cost too much nowadays, I'm using a REALLY old network switch from like the year 2000 and it still works great (if perhaps a little slow since its not gigabit)

 

[DreamThrall]

I was assuming he was either stealing someone else's wifi, or had pcs cards or something like that.

 

[Rico]

Heh, not an uncommon scenario, so I could see that :-P

 

[AtomicSpark]

Did you just accuse everyone here of being too complicated and then went on to suggest linux and SFTP?

I don't understand why anyone would want to use FTP or SFTP over the standard windows file sharing services. Also, if for whatever reason you are going the FTP route don't over complicate things with encryption by going with SFTP; you are on a private LAN connecting 3 computers only you will be using, encryption is not only pointless but it will also decrease your performance as each packet has to be encrypted then decrypted.

Because SSH is sex. I couldn't live my life without it. One day, I hope that you will realize its awesomeness. Also, Linux isn't hard or difficult. It's just different. That seems to scare some people.

I'm not sure anyone has asked but why do you keep those 3 computers on a wireless network and then do a separate wired network?

As say opposed to the 3 on a wired network like a switch (maybe gigabit even! for filesharing) and use a wireless bridge also plugged into the switch to let your PCs get to your wifi network?

This.

 

[No Limit]

Because SSH is sex. I couldn't live my life without it. One day, I hope that you will realize its awesomeness. Also, Linux isn't hard or difficult. It's just different. That seems to scare some people.

I do just fine with my sexy and usable windows GUI, but what ever floats your boat I guess .

 

[VirusType2]

I'm renting, and the internet isn't wired to my flat. I'm allowed to grab it wirelessly (unsecured connection), but I have no way of configuring their router.

It often causes firewalled issues and getting dumped off when they turn their computer on due to the fact that they are assigned an IP address that I was using or some shit.

This is why my situation is a PITA. If I had a wired internet to my place, I wouldn't need any help.

 

[Rico]

An easy and dirty way of doing this would also just be to use a network switch, hook up all the PCs to it, then disable your wireless internet if there are any network conflicts. Or you could use a different subnet for your wired network, but that would be a bit more involved.

In general though, you'll definitely need a switch or a router (which can act as a switch) whichever route you decide to go.

Or I guess you could just share your files over the wireless, but that'll be a lot slower.

 

[Asus]

The connection is an unsecured connection.
This is beyond the simple scope of sharing files but if you want to beef up your security and make it simpler for your side of the network you could setup a Wireless Bridge (RJ45 connection) to the WAN port on a router. Then plug your PCs into the 4 switch ports built-in on the router. Then you would have a hardware firewall on your side of the network with the unprotected wifi aspect outside of your network.

 

[No Limit]

The connection is an unsecured connection.
This is beyond the simple scope of sharing files but if you want to beef up your security and make it simpler for your side of the network you could setup a Wireless Bridge (RJ45 connection) to the WAN port on a router. Then plug your PCs into the 4 switch ports built-in on the router. Then you would have a hardware firewall on your side of the network with the unprotected wifi aspect outside of your network.

The problem is all your internet traffic would still be sent through the unencrypted network. So all though your internal network would be protected anybody that is connected to that unsecured wireless network can pick up all the packets you are sending out. That means any unencrypted information such as pop3 email passwords, ftp passwords, your hl2.net passwords, etc can be easily picked up by anyone that wants to drive up to your house with a laptop. Encrypted information can also be picked up if some one does a man in the middle attack and you decide to ignore the security warnings that the certificate of the page you are trying to view is not valid.

So if you are stealing internet be very careful what you decide to send over it.