NHL CBA/Lockout Thread

Dr. Freeman

Dr. Freeman

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It is now about 20 minutes into the lockout and i know the few of us hockey fans are disappointed especially after seeing some really good NHL Playoff hockey and more recently the World Cup tourney.

I have and am discussing the ins & outs, good & bad about this expired CBA(Collective Bargining Agreement) at another hockey related site and from time to time will post in this thread to give some varying views on the situation.

who do i side with in this? the owners or the players? well im not sure and i understand the owners have put themselves into the situation they are in now, but on other hand everyone involved shouldn't use this as an arguement.. simply because its counter-productive towards ironing out a deal. in short.. the players earned what they earned and nobody should be-grudge them because the deal back in 1995 was reached fairly.

looking forward however everyone involved needs to realize the revenues are just not there to sustain these escalating salaries and here is where we are stuck.

share views and what u think can work given the situation the NHL/NHLPA are in, keeping in mind that hockey is playing 4th fiddle in the US while hockey dominates in Canada's sporting culture.
 
Hockey definitely, but from what I've heard from other Canadians, enthusiasm about the NHL is stagnant at best up there. Of course, you would know better than me.

The owners are at fault for this current situation. But the fact is, the owners hold all of the cards. They are multimillionaires who own these teams as a side investment, at least for the bigger franchises. Meanwhile for the players it is their way of life.

The unfortunate fact is, the NHL is going to lose many of the few fans it has left. And if the product itself doesn't improve when a solution is reached, then we may very well see the end of the NHL in its current state.
 
ShadowFox said:
Hockey definitely, but from what I've heard from other Canadians, enthusiasm about the NHL is stagnant at best up there. Of course, you would know better than me.

The owners are at fault for this current situation. But the fact is, the owners hold all of the cards. They are multimillionaires who own these teams as a side investment, at least for the bigger franchises. Meanwhile for the players it is their way of life.

The unfortunate fact is, the NHL is going to lose many of the few fans it has left. And if the product itself doesn't improve when a solution is reached, then we may very well see the end of the NHL in its current state.
Click to expand...
Enthusiasm about the NHL is actually extremelly high up here, its just depressing for us every year when no Canadian team gets the cup, even so there is alot of love for the NHL here. Believe me, up here it won't be losing many fans.
 
j__ said:
1 of u mind explaining exactly what this lockout is about?
Click to expand...

sure.
the current CBA (Collective Bargining Agreement) expired today (Thursday September 16 @ 12AM). what that means is that the NHL and the NHLPA (PA = Players Association) do not have a deal in place to continue and start training camps.

the last CBA expired in 1994 and there was a lockout which lasted 103 days.. ending in early January which left room to have a shortened season.. the owners were taken to the cleaners in this expired CBA because of the loopholes in the salary abitration process and the loopholes in the rookie contracts.

so now 10 years later the league has lost $250 million (thats not an exact number.. i'll give that number later on) and the owners are saying that its fine, players earned what they earned but its time to face reality.. and that is the players cannot have 75% of the league's revenues (note 75% is the highest of the major sports).

the owners and players cannot agree at this particular time so the owners have "locked out" the players.. meaning no hockey until there is a CBA deal done.

as a fan, the truth is, tix prices are escalating and competitive balance is not really there even tho we saw two small market teams in Calgary and Tampa Bay play in the Stanley Cup finals.

they gotta get it right this time...i don't care how long it takes.. i don't care if its a salary cap that will address the issues which have bothered the fans over the years.. JUST GET IT RIGHT THIS TIME!! :frown: :angry:
 
ShadowFox said:
Hockey definitely, but from what I've heard from other Canadians, enthusiasm about the NHL is stagnant at best up there. Of course, you would know better than me.

The owners are at fault for this current situation. But the fact is, the owners hold all of the cards. They are multimillionaires who own these teams as a side investment, at least for the bigger franchises. Meanwhile for the players it is their way of life.

The unfortunate fact is, the NHL is going to lose many of the few fans it has left. And if the product itself doesn't improve when a solution is reached, then we may very well see the end of the NHL in its current state.
Click to expand...

as Mully explained, interest in the NHL has been high...especially when u consider for the first time in 12-13 years Canada had 5 out of the 6 Canadian teams in the playoffs.

in Canada it really won't matter how long this lockout goes.. we Canucks will flock back to the game as soon as they are good to go... the concern really is the interest in the US.
we all know hockey south of the border is 4th fiddle when compared to the other major sports.. and in some cases it slips to 5th even... so a long lockout will probably kill interest in some of the newer markets.. tho i am hoping Philly fans such as urself will come back..

i hope they get it right.. and i hope its soon.. because as much as i love hockey in Canada, i also know hockey in the US is very important as well.. :|
 
I don't doubt you guys will come back. In Philly here it is really a shame. Philly has and always will be a football town. The Eagles are the number one story even in the summer. But with the Phillies and Sixers sucking, the Flyers had a great chance to retake the #2 franchise spot in the city. They gained a lot of fans with their great run in the playoffs, and Preems was a guy everybody admired for his great performance. But now with the lockout a lot of those casual fans who were becoming interested in the Flyers will look somewhere else.

Before last year, attendance had been declining here for the first time ever really. But that was because ticket prices are just too high and there is a dissatisfaction with the fact that the team hasn't won since the 70s. As I said, we will lose a lot of casual fans in Philly, but the diehards will remain.

Here is an article which really sums my thoughts:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slug=dw-nhllockout&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
 
Dr. Freeman said:
as Mully explained, interest in the NHL has been high...especially when u consider for the first time in 12-13 years Canada had 5 out of the 6 Canadian teams in the playoffs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, we were so close. The Edmonton Oilers were within a hair of making it into the playoffs and just, just missed the last spot to The Nashville Predators. If they had just been able to make it in, this would have been one of the most glorious playoffs for Canada in decades. Detroit vs. Edmonton would have been a far better series if you ask me. :stare:

That's why this lockout is painful. A lot of the teams are beginning to even out and the race for the playoffs get more and more interesting as the years go on. You can even expect a Cindarella team to make it to the finals too (Calgary, Anahiem, Carolina, etc.). It's frustrating to have to go through a lockout, especially when things are going so well on the ice. :hmph:

The league expanded too quickly. The jump from 26 teams to 30 looks to be what makes up most of the deficit. Some of the US teams have to go. The problem is, who do you pick? I know it's not that simple, but something has to be done soon. :(

2004 was a great year for hockey fans. :D
 
I think that there should be a Salary Cap, and Revenue Sharing. This would bring down ticket prices and make the league better because a team cannot just pile up all the good players (NYR) and try to win with em (which they didn't, lol). With this lockout however I do see atleast 4 teams from the US leaving the NHL, I really think this would help the league and allow us to see a better product.

Although there won't be any NHL for awhile, we do however get to see alot of other good leagues start up, the AHL will be much better, and also the QMJHL will be better because their great players will not be called up to play on the NHL team.
 
in about 10 minutes Sportsnet is airing an hour long segment on the lockout from both points of view (owners and players).
last night The Score Network aired something similar and if u missed it, don't worry.. they tend to re-play these shows.. and since hockey will be scarce, im sure it will get aired again at some point.

New Jersey Devils forward Jon Madden spoke out today on his feelings about the CBA situation.. apparently he wouldn't mind a salary cap, he just wants to play.

btw, he isn't the first player to say a salary cap wouldn't be such a bad idea.. Jeremy Roenick and Steve Thomas both voiced their opinion on it.. tho i believe Thomas "had to" retract his words once the PA heard about it. makes u think.. if these players are just puppets for the union.. :|

click here for link
 
The National Football League has a salary cap, and the Superbowl is the most watched event of any professional sport. Football has become one of the most stable sports out there.

A Salary Cap is the only thing that I could see working, unless you throw away some of the less profitable teams. Sometimes you need to chop off the hand to save the arm.
 
tis a sad sad thing to see the nhl in a lock out... salary cap would be nice. i suppose it works pretty well in the other big sports. and as far as nhl being #4 for sports in the US... it depends on the region. in denver(and i'm assuming most of colorado) hockey is #2 or tied for 1st... denver is definitely a broncos town, but the avs/nordiques were the first team to win a championship here. nuggets and rockies both suck. (basketball and baseball, respectively) ... and now i'll stop rambling on...
 
I wonder what would happen if the NHL abandoned the NHLPA? Said: "screw you guys, we don't need you," and went off to hire players who were not a part of the current NHLPA organization. Get regular Joes to play in televised events. :laugh: Hell even I could get a chance to play. :D

Sorry. Just making what-if scenarios.
 
Yeah, they could hire subs, but Buttman already said that wasn't something they would do.

If the PA will not accept a cap, then I suggest a luxury tax complemented with eliminating gauranteed contracts. That would help a lot.
 
Jackal hit said:
tis a sad sad thing to see the nhl in a lock out... salary cap would be nice. i suppose it works pretty well in the other big sports. and as far as nhl being #4 for sports in the US... it depends on the region. in denver(and i'm assuming most of colorado) hockey is #2 or tied for 1st... denver is definitely a broncos town, but the avs/nordiques were the first team to win a championship here. nuggets and rockies both suck. (basketball and baseball, respectively) ... and now i'll stop rambling on...
Click to expand...

no, u are not rambling Jackal :)
u are giving insight to those of us outside the Denver region.. TBH i didn't know the Av's were number 2 in Denver on the sports scale.. i consider myself a fairly knowledgable sports fan but i thought the Rockies and Nuggets despite their woeful records year-in, year-out would be giving a hefty challenge for that number 2 spot.

its certainly nice to hear the Av's have caught the attention of some pple in Colorado.. Denver specifically.. i hope u and others don't lose interest.. hockey is a fun sport and deserves better than these overpaid million/billion-aires are treating it and its fans.

i hope more pple like Jackal post their insights on how hockey and the NHL in particular have done in their market over the past few years.
 
the only thing that is preventing the nhlpa really to go over to the salary cap is the nhl refusing to show which teams are losing money. which makes it look like the nhl is lieing. anyways, all we can do is sit and throw darts at the people ruining hockey
 
today i watched the press conference (which i taped on Wednesday) of Gary Bettman announcing the lockout and theres one thing that stood out for me.

Bettman said he offered the players to conduct their own audit into the League's financial losses if the PA did not believe the highly credible Arthur Levitt report which was made public about 7-8 months ago.

look, i am not saying the owners are honest angels by any means...but if the PA were offered to conduct their own audit and turned it down.. this just shows that the players are just as stubborn and just as much to blame in not doing the neccessary things to get a deal done. :(
 
Baal said:
I made a new avatar in honor of the lockout, too bad I can't use it on this forums, but I use it on others:

http://www.accesswave.ca/~garrymullins/lockout.jpg
Click to expand...

thats a pretty nice avatar.. although the circumstances could be better.. :)

Baal do u post over at tmlfans.ca hockey site? its mainly a Leafs fan site but has fans of other teams posting there as well.. probably the best overal hockey site i know ;)
 
Tonight for the first time since the lockout began, Gary Bettman will be on CBC's "The National" news show in a "Q & A" session with CBC's Peter Mansbridge and the fans!

u can send ur questions via the website link i have provided below.. and well.. hopefully it will get answered :)
i know what some of u are thinking.. "big deal.. this will just be posturing on Bettman's part" but i think at least this will get him and others talking about the situation.. which is better than nothing at this point.

i believe tomorrow it will be the PA's executive officer Bob Goodenow.

anyway link time Q & A session with Gary Bettman on CBC tonight
 
that lockout segment will be starting in a few minutes for those of u interested :)
 
watched that segment last night and again.. the one thing that keeps sticking out for me is the owners offer to the PA to conduct their own investigation since the PA does not trust one of the most credible former securities officer, Arthur Levitt.

but as well all know, the PA did not even consider this...which leads me to believe that the PA wants this lockout as much as the owners do.. :frown: :angry: :angry:
anyway tonight it is PA's executive, Bob Goodenow's turn to answer fans' questions and face the music.
i hope he gets run outta that building :angry:
 
in about 20 minutes or so, CBC's "The National" will have a "Q & A" with PA executive Bob Goodenow.
he will be answering questions submitted by fans just as Gary Bettman did last night.
most of it will be posturing...but i am interested if he will give a straight-faced answer to the offer the league gave in PA doing their own investagation of revenues and losses.

don't have much hope here.. but.. maybe this guy will see the light? :(
 
aight so i watched the segment last night and let me tell u, Bob Goodenow never once apoligized to the fans, he never directly answered any questions.

even more, when answering one of the questions,someone in the crowd correctly pointed out that it would take even a physician 20 years to make what the average player would make in one year...or Bob Goodenow to call it jealousy smacks of lunacy. :frown: :frown:
i couldn't believe how patronizing Goodenow came across to the fans of the league. Every time someone asked an honest question, he would role his eyes or make a face like " buddy, you don't know what you are talking about". Personally i don't care if the PA doesn't care if we "empathize" or "sympathize" with their situation.

as for me wanting the point about the PA doing their own investigation, that point wasn't even brought up because of all the patronzing that was happening.

UNBELIEVABLE!!!! :angry: :angry:
 
What do you expect? Neither side cares about the fans, they care about money.
 
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