NVIDIA's Response On Half-Life 2 & Gabe's Statements

Gorgon

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Over the last 24 hours, there has been quite a bit of controversy over comments made by Gabe Newell of Valve at ATIs Shader Day.

During the entire development of Half Life 2, NVIDIA has had close technical contact with Valve regarding the game. However, Valve has not made us aware of the issues Gabe discussed.

We're confused as to why Valve chose to use Release. 45 (Rel. 45) - because up to two weeks prior to the Shader Day we had been working closely with Valve to ensure that Release 50 (Rel. 50) provides the best experience possible on NVIDIA hardware.

Regarding the Half Life2 performance numbers that were published on the web, we believe these performance numbers are invalid because they do not use our Rel. 50 drivers. Engineering efforts on our Rel. 45 drivers stopped months ago in anticipation of Rel. 50. NVIDIA's optimizations for Half Life 2 and other new games are included in our Rel.50 drivers - which reviewers currently have a beta version of today. Rel. 50 is the best driver we've ever built - it includes significant optimizations for the highly-programmable GeForce FX architecture and includes feature and performance benefits for over 100 million NVIDIA GPU customers.

Pending detailed information from Valve, we are only aware one bug with Rel. 50 and the version of Half Life 2 that we currently have - this is the fog issue that Gabe refered to in his presentation. It is not a cheat or an over optimization. Our current drop of Half Life 2 is more than 2 weeks old. NVIDIA's Rel. 50 driver will be public before the game is available. Since we know that obtaining the best pixel shader performance from the GeForce FX GPUs currently requires some specialized work, our developer technology team works very closely with game developers. Part of this is understanding that in many cases promoting PS 1.4 (DirectX 8) to PS 2.0 (DirectX 9) provides no image quality benefit. Sometimes this involves converting 32-bit floating point precision shader operations into 16-bit floating point precision shaders in order to obtain the performance benefit of this mode with no image quality degradation. Our goal is to provide our consumers the best experience possible, and that means games must both look and run great.

The optimal code path for ATI and NVIDIA GPUs is different - so trying to test them with the same code path will always disadvantage one or the other. The default settings for each game have been chosen by both the developers and NVIDIA in order to produce the best results for our consumers.

In addition to the developer efforts, our driver team has developed a next-generation automatic shader optimizer that vastly improves GeForce FX pixel shader performance across the board. The fruits of these efforts will be seen in our Rel.50 driver release. Many other improvements have also been included in Rel.50, and these were all created either in response to, or in anticipation of the first wave of shipping DirectX 9 titles, such as Half Life 2.

We are committed to working with Gabe to fully understand his concerns and with Valve to ensure that 100+ million NVIDIA consumers get the best possible experience with Half Life 2 on NVIDIA hardware.

mmmm:dozey:
 
I think anad tech.com will have the marks tomorrow with the best 50.x driver.
 
Originally posted by G0rgon
I think anad tech.com will have the marks tomorrow with the best 50.x driver.
Although the 50's may show a big improment, it'd be interesting to know what corners nVidia had to make. I was about 2 seconds away from returning my 9800 for a 5900 because I've never had a problem with nVidia products or drivers. Obvioulsy now Im keeping my 9800, but if nVida fixes the dx9 issues, Im jumping right back to them.
 
If the scores higher with Nvidia, I am going for it. If not nvidia cannot get other excuses.
 
And also the driver 50.0 will be released to the public on the 15-09-03

can Gabe repeat the testing?
 
just shows how much of a painc Nvidia is in over all this, Im sure Valve have taken a hard long look at those 50.xx drivers, and Nvidia is going off as if it was a "bug" for the fog thing, no mention of IMAGE CHEATING, or any other things, but all the fan boys will just use that news post as fuel to their fires, "oh but Nivida said that there's nothing wrong so that just proves Ati bought valve out to make it run like crap on nivida hardware" waa waaa
 
All I have to say to that statement is:

Newell was concerned particularly with some of the techniques NVIDIA has used in recent driver releases, although he didn't exempt other graphics hardware makers from his complaints. He said they had seen cases where fog was completely removed from a level in one of Valve's games, by the graphics driver software, in order to improve performance. I asked him to clarify which game, and he said it was Half-Life 2. Apparently, this activity has gone on while the game is still in development. He also mentioned that he's seen drivers detect screen capture attempts and output higher quality data than what's actually shown in-game

Oh yea, best experience on NV hardware, rrriiiggghhhttt:cool:
 
im an nvidia owner, and while I admit ati are leading the graphics card race right now (and my next card is most likely gonna be a 9800pro) you have to admit that both companies are doing a great job on the 3d hardware side of things. Without them HL2 wouldnt be possible, bear that in mind when you think about flaming them for having buggy drivers or "fixing" results. The competiton only means cheaper cards in the long run for us consumers !!
 
well damn, i wish they would do something about the dx8.1 nvidia cards ;x
 
i own a GF4Ti4200. i hope they fix the problems.





i hope... that when i work extra hard i can buy an 9800 Pro. :D
 
Damn you guys just get a second job and buy both cards. That is what my plan is. The only reason I want a FX 5900 is because of the 'Dawn' demo. :)
 
Dawn works just fine with Radeons:
http://www.rage3d.com/articles/atidawning/

Anyway, it's pretty sad to see nVidia saying in their latest statement that they'll need Dets 50 for better HL2 gameplay.
Dets 50 contain a built-in shader "optimizator" (guess what it does? :D) and it's the only weapon they got to fight back.
Me thinks Gabe is going to be really pissed off when/if trying to remove all the nVidia special code...
 
Originally posted by x84D80Yx
well damn, i wish they would do something about the dx8.1 nvidia cards ;x
The DX8 cards work just fine. It's only the DX9 cards that seem to be having problems.
 
nope the dx9 cards work just fine to, there just to damn slow to play using dx9.
 
Originally posted by peoplesuc
Damn you guys just get a second job and buy both cards. That is what my plan is. The only reason I want a FX 5900 is because of the 'Dawn' demo. :)

yeah, dawn runs faster on ati hardware anyways.
 
lol steve..... on another note...... i think with the money gabe got from ATi he should go into surgery and get the fat sucked outta him... lol
 
I really don't know why people are so obtuse!
FACT: ATi hardware is FASTER than anything nVidia has right now.
FACT: Tests with DIFFERENT games prove it.
FACT: John Carmack STATED the same
FACT: Microsoft STATED the same
FACT: Detonators 50 contain special optimizations (including shader modifications) for HL2 to try to improve game speed (this is pretty bad, think about it! nVidia has to write special optimization for every game used as a benchmark to score more that it normally does)
FACT: Gabe himself told the press that Dets 50 will include "cheats"
FACT: DX8 games are NOT ALWAYS faster with nVidia hardware - it depends which game got optimized the most :p

What else do you guys need to understand why ATi hardware is superior? Heck, it runs Dawn faster, even using a Wrapper :)
 
i really hope NV fixes up some stuff and we all can enjoy hl2 perfectly whether it'd be on a radeon9800 or a gfx5900u. :D
 
I was so mad when I checked the NVidia website only to realize that Dawn can only be viewed with an FX card! I have a Ti 4400! Isn't that enough?? ;(

I don't know the exact problems that NV cards have but I doubt I will notice it much. Ah the joys of being naive.
 
I was having a heated debate with a guy in irc who refused to believe ati was better in dx9. I hate fanbois like that.
 
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