Obama: "Iraq Costs American Families $100 Bucks per Month"

[CptStern]

Sen. Barack Obama says the war costs each household about $100 per month. We do the math and find he's right.

however:

The problem is that it underestimates the actual costs to taxpayers by a very significant degree -- it's an extremely conservative number. It's based on the defense supplementals with which Bush has financed his wars, but that calculation just scratches the surface.

http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/81554/


in comparison (from shacknews chat) :

according to 60 Minutes last night the space program costs $4.50 per person a month

 

[Solaris]

Wow that's a lot of money you guys in America are paying. It's really good of you that you guys care so much about democracy and freedom that you are willing to pay that much in taxes.

You should be very proud America.

 

[Pesmerga]

That's actually not too bad, put in that way.

Hell, people pay 1/7th of that to pay for WoW. $100 is like, nothing.

For the entire war that's about $7,200 per household, assuming it ends by 2009. $7,200 for 6 years of having your entire nation wage war for you.

Can I spend half that and get a few abrams to patrol my house?

 

[No Limit]

Wow that's a lot of money you guys in America are paying. It's really good of you that you guys care so much about democracy and freedom that you are willing to pay that much in taxes.

You should be very proud America.

You aren't pro-war again, are you? Shit, a week ago you went back to "I don't know what to think" and now its back to "this war is for democracy" crap?

If you were being sarcastic my apologies, but I really can't tell anymore with you.

 

[Raziaar]

That's actually not too bad, put in that way.

Hell, people pay 1/7th of that to pay for WoW. $100 is like, nothing.

For the entire war that's about $7,200 per household, assuming it ends by 2009. $7,200 for 6 years of having your entire nation wage war for you.

Can I spend half that and get a few abrams to patrol my house?

It doesn't seem so bad when you think of it individually, but that's trillions of dollars, which doesn't include all the extra costs of the war too.

 

[No Limit]

It doesn't seem so bad when you think of it individually, but that's trillions of dollars, which doesn't include all the extra costs of the war too.

I know I sure as hell can't afford to piss away $100 a month for nothing. And usually I don't like to speak for large groups of people but I can gurantee you many middle class americans feel exactly the same way I do. $100 is a lot of money for a lot of people, it is not pocket change.

 

[Pesmerga]

I know I sure as hell can't afford to piss away $100 a month for nothing. And usually I don't like to speak for large groups of people but I can gurantee you many middle class americans feel exactly the same way I do. $100 is a lot of money for a lot of people, it is not pocket change.

It's not for nothing, man.

It's for freedom!

 

[Krynn72]

Is it actually costing us that much more, or is that just "100 dollars of the taxes you'll pay anyways" money?

 

[Mr Stabby]

Its all payed for by borrowed money on the U.S deficit, when that bill comes in America will be seriously screwed.

 

[Escaep]

I read a sign once in DC that said "You're share of the national debt: $54K."

i dunt have $54k. This was in, i want to say the congressman peoples office.

 

[Kyorisu]

I read a sign once in DC that said "You're share of the national debt: $54K."

That's classic. "No it's not our poorly managed government that caused the economy to slide it's the people. Just ignore all the money we borrowed for Iraq k?"

 

[kirovman]

Presumably its going to pay off in the end. All that oily goodness, just hook it up to my veins!

 

[CptStern]

dont forget about the benefits of exporting terrorism stateside ..I mean there's gotta be what , 1000x the amount of people gunning for the US that there was before the war ..but I guess it's worth it so long as a america is safe ...oh wait

 

[Irksome]

Don't blame the government, blame the citizen who continues to elect them.

 

[kirovman]

Don't blame the citizens, blame the third world farmers who continue to feed them.

 

[99.vikram]

Don't blame the citizens, blame the third world farmers who continue to feed them.

Not a problem. Suicides should have killed off all third world farmers by 2020.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

dont forget about the benefits of exporting terrorism stateside ..I mean there's gotta be what , 1000x the amount of people gunning for the US that there was before the war ..but I guess it's worth it so long as a america is safe ...oh wait

I lol'd. Now I seriousd.

 

[Kadayi]

Don't blame the government, blame the citizen who continues to elect them.

I don't think the electorate has that much to do with the process tbh. The illusion of democracy is there, but the reality is somewhat lacking. Unless your a man/woman of status and wealth your not getting elected.

 

[Andrew LB]

however:



http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/81554/


in comparison (from shacknews chat) :

Considering that the top 10% of wage earners pay 70% of the income taxes in the United States, I find it quite disingenuous to try to average the costs of the war across ALL taxpayers.


The cost of the war is shouldered almost entirely by those making $100,000+ per year.

FYI, The bottom 50% of wage earners pay only 3% of income taxes.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

What a stupid comparison. The top 10% of wage earners standard of living is so incredibly high not only can they afford to pay their fair share of taxes, but they don't have to give a flying crap about anything.
Poor people pay very few taxes becaues they are POOR.

 

[Andrew LB]

What a stupid comparison. The top 10% of wage earners standard of living is so incredibly high not only can they afford to pay their fair share of taxes, but they don't have to give a flying crap about anything.
Poor people pay very few taxes becaues they are POOR.

Actually "POOR" people don't pay ANY federal income taxes.

And since the Bush tax cuts, an additional 20,000,000 lower income people didn't have to pay federal income taxes.


Edit: Just wanted to add that those top 10% wage earners pay 33% of their income as taxes. ($82,000+)

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

That sounds reasonable.

 

[kirovman]

If you're really rich, you'll get your accountants to figure out a way to avoid paying taxes, such as paying yourself a dividend, or get a bonus in bars of gold/expensive wine.

 

[Raziaar]

I know I sure as hell can't afford to piss away $100 a month for nothing. And usually I don't like to speak for large groups of people but I can gurantee you many middle class americans feel exactly the same way I do. $100 is a lot of money for a lot of people, it is not pocket change.

No it's not pocket change, but your average middle class family pays way more than that per month on entertainment budgets. Subscriptions alone like cable/satellite and internet, not to mention magazine subscriptions and other things.

That doesn't make it any less reasonable that we have to pay that much for a war that is bringing our country into further debt though.

 

[Andrew LB]

Btw... it's not like Obama would be giving all you guys $100/month in tax rebates. Democrats would definitely find another place to piss it away.

Personally, I have no problem with that tax money going toward equipping/funding/protecting our military personnel. It's the least we can do for them considering they're putting their lives on the line every day.

The fact of the matter is that we're currently in Iraq, and we need to be responsible when drawing down our forces there. I don't agree with how we got into this mess just like the rest of you, but there is no 'rewind' button. Hopefully our next president will get our troops out without it looking like we just surrendered and went home.

 

[Eejit]

Btw... it's not like Obama would be giving all you guys $100/month in tax rebates. Democrats would definitely find another place to piss it away.

Yeah they're probably waste it on frivolous extravagances like infrastructure or healthcare. What a shame when that money could be used for killing!

 

[kirovman]

What a shame when that money could be used for killing!

It's called "Securing Freedom"

 

[TheDude]

Freedom isn't free. It costs folks like you and me.

 

[No Limit]

Actually "POOR" people don't pay ANY federal income taxes.

Because they are unemployed. By defenition if you don't have an income you can't be taxed.

And since the Bush tax cuts, an additional 20,000,000 lower income people didn't have to pay federal income taxes.

And since those Bush tax cuts the wealthy have been able to pay a lower tax rate than the not so wealthy in many cases. And since those tax cuts we are now what, 8 trillion dollars in debt? I guess if you just pass that 8 trillion dollars off to your children it doesn't really matter to you, does it?

Edit: Just wanted to add that those top 10% wage earners pay 33% of their income as taxes. ($82,000+)

A similar rate to what I pay, and I don't make nearly as much. What's your point?

 

[CptStern]

that people who earn more pay more? ..wow, what a breakthrough ..it took me years to figure that one out

 

[Andrew LB]

Yeah they're probably waste it on frivolous extravagances like infrastructure or healthcare. What a shame when that money could be used for killing!

If you really think the democrats would use it on Infrastructure or health care, please take a look at the 90's. Actually, take a look at what the Democrats in congress are doing right now! Last i checked they were re-naming post offices, refusing to vote on the Protect America Act, and handing out a $159,000,000 earmark for John Murtha.

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/04/07/video-murtha-cant-get-enough-of-the-sweet-sweet-pork/

that people who earn more pay more? ..wow, what a breakthrough ..it took me years to figure that one out

Actually I was pointing out that most Americans pay practically nothing. Obama's numbers are disingenuous.

Because they are unemployed. By defenition if you don't have an income you can't be taxed.

Really? 50% of our nation is unemployed???

Last i checked it was 5%.

And since those Bush tax cuts the wealthy have been able to pay a lower tax rate than the not so wealthy in many cases. And since those tax cuts we are now what, 8 trillion dollars in debt? I guess if you just pass that 8 trillion dollars off to your children it doesn't really matter to you, does it?

Here are the 2007 tax rates:

$0 - $7,825 = 10% of the amount over $0
$7,825 - $31,850 = $782.50 plus 15% of the amount over 7,825
$31,850 - $77,100 = $4,386.25 plus 25% of the amount over 31,850
$77,100 - $160,850 = $15,698.75 plus 28% of the amount over 77,100
$160,850 - $349,700 = $39,148.75 plus 33% of the amount over 160,850
$349,700 - no limit = $101,469.25 plus 35% of the amount over 349,700

Yes, there are instances where people have been able to pay less tax than they should. I'm completely against that and want congress to fix the tax code to remove loopholes.

A similar rate to what I pay, and I don't make nearly as much. What's your point?

Perhaps you need a CPA.

 

[CptStern]

you dont seem to understand the story ..it's not that the IRS takes an additional $100 out of the bank acounts of every american to pay for iraq but rather a percentage of that amounts to $100 per american goes to fund the war in iraq ..americans would be paying this $100 regardless if they were in iraq or not

really it isnt that hard to decipher

 

[No Limit]

Really? 50% of our nation is unemployed???

Who said 50% of this country is unemployed? You said the poor don't pay taxes, and you put "poor" in quotes. So I assumed your defenition of poor was unemployed. If you are saying I'm wrong then I guess you are making the argument that 50% of this country doesn't pay taxes? I would love to see your statistics for this.

Here are the 2007 tax rates:

You've never done your own taxes, have you? I don't think you understand how many loop holes there are for the wealthy to get away with paying virtually no taxes at all. Shit, if I register a business my car, apartment, computer, and a bunch of other shit I use for personal stuff becomes a deduction. Once all those deductions are added up by a rich person's accountant they don't pay anything close to that.

Now, you didn't address the important part of what I was saying which talked about the 8 trillion dollar debt. Why did you ignore that?

Perhaps you need a CPA.

So maybe you do understand how taxes work. That means you were lying above when you posted the tax rates since you knew those tax rates meant nothing in real life.

 

[Andrew LB]

Who said 50% of this country is unemployed? You said the poor don't pay taxes, and you put "poor" in quotes. So I assumed your defenition of poor was unemployed. If you are saying I'm wrong then I guess you are making the argument that 50% of this country doesn't pay taxes? I would love to see your statistics for this.

Considering the bottom 50% of wage earners pay only 3% of the taxes.... I'd consider those 150 million Americans to be paying little to no taxes.

You've never done your own taxes, have you? I don't think you understand how many loop holes there are for the wealthy to get away with paying virtually no taxes at all.

I did my own taxes this year and I paid exactly the amount that I should according to where my income fits into the federal income tax rates i posted. I could have got deductions for my charitable donations, but didn't take them.

Shit, if I register a business my car, apartment, computer, and a bunch of other shit I use for personal stuff becomes a deduction. Once all those deductions are added up by a rich person's accountant they don't pay anything close to that.

It's a lot harder to get deductions legally for what you listed than you might think. Don't expect a warm greeting from the IRS when you get audited.

Now, you didn't address the important part of what I was saying which talked about the 8 trillion dollar debt. Why did you ignore that?

Actually the national debt is 9 trillion. And I'm not happy about that one bit. Washington has been spending like a drunken sailor for decades and it needs to stop.

So maybe you do understand how taxes work. That means you were lying above when you posted the tax rates since you knew those tax rates meant nothing in real life.

So I'm lying now? Wow... you've definitely got an anger management problem.

 

[Mr-Fusion]

That's actually not too bad, put in that way.

Hell, people pay 1/7th of that to pay for WoW. $100 is like, nothing.

For the entire war that's about $7,200 per household, assuming it ends by 2009. $7,200 for 6 years of having your entire nation wage war for you.

Can I spend half that and get a few abrams to patrol my house?

They could have invented faster than light space travel and pills that extend the size of your penis with that money.

I know what i'd prefer!!

 

[Eejit]

They could have invented faster than light space travel and pills that extend the size of your penis with that money.

I know what i'd prefer!!

Yeah well not all of us want Pesh to have a bigger penis.

 

[Saturos]

BTW, all US households with dependents are supposed to be getting $600 rebate checks from the government this month in an attempt to stimulate the economy. Rumor has been going around that the officials fear another depression and that the rebate checks would maybe encourage people to start spending money again rather than hoarding every single dollar. It doesn't look good for the US if they are concerned enough to simply hand out money like that. :O

How true these rumors are, I don't know, but we're getting money supposedly though.

 

[No Limit]

Considering the bottom 50% of wage earners pay only 3% of the taxes.... I'd consider those 150 million Americans to be paying little to no taxes.

Wait just a moment. The guy that has thrown the "elite" label around over and over is now saying how insignificant it is for a poor person to pay a significant part of their monthly income to taxes? I think I should just let you talk from now on, you need no help from me digging your own hole.

I did my own taxes this year and I paid exactly the amount that I should according to where my income fits into the federal income tax rates i posted. I could have got deductions for my charitable donations, but didn't take them.

Me neighter. I donated over a billion dollars to charity last year and I didn't even write it off.

It's a lot harder to get deductions legally for what you listed than you might think. Don't expect a warm greeting from the IRS when you get audited.

Loop holes and business deducations are not illegal and welcomed by the IRS.

Actually the national debt is 9 trillion. And I'm not happy about that one bit. Washington has been spending like a drunken sailor for decades and it needs to stop.

For decades? We had a large surplus in the 90s, so no, it hasn't been for decades. The "drunken spending" didn't start happening until this republican administration. You say we need to change that by voting in another republican administration? I'm sure the american people will buy that one. personally I can't wait for the debates between Obama and McCain.