Other civilizations

What other forms of life do you think exist?

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Escaep

Escaep

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This is basically a continuation of some discussion in the "space pictures and amazement" thread but a little more specific. Basically, what type (if any) of other civilizations may exist in the universe?

This is all based on the Kardashev scale which measures how technologically advanced a civilization is.

Type 0: Earth is considered a Type 0 civilization. We are only capable of harnessing some of our planet's power.

Type 1: A civilization is capable of harnessing all of the energy put out by it's home planet.

Type 2: A civilization is capable of harnessing all of the energy available from a single star.

Type 3: A civilization is capable of harnessing all of the energy of an entire galaxy.

Type 4 (Not really on the scale, but proposed by Dr. Michio Kaku): A civilization that can harness extragalactic energy sources, such as dark energy.

Also feel free to discuss the friendliness/appearance of other civilizations. Are they war mongering as portrayed in movies like Independence Day, or are they E.T. like and little green men? Or, is the only other life out there bacterial? Also, do you think life ever existed on Mars?


Poll to follow shortly.
 
I've explored the entire universe. There's only other type 0 civilizations.
 
These cute little guys.
speciesalien.jpg
 
I feel it would be ignorant with such a vast universe to simply state we are alone with regards to what we define as 'life'. Although the origin of life is extremely hazy, the immense development of evolutionary biology has really bridged monumental gaps back to a point where we can say although the origin of life is extremely unlikely and needs exact conditions, these are not impossible to occur naturally. Highly highly unlikely but 1000 monkeys over infinite time will write the works of Shakespeare.

Based on that I'm sure other life exists where specific criteria are met, I'd expect other examples of life to be extremely different, with different software programming their development. Its possible life could develop on a neutrino like scale where weak magnetic forces are monumental. The opposite could be said with huge life forms.

Richard Dawkins said that we are programmed on software for 'middle world' and existence where gravity is meaningful in our spatial movements and awareness. Apply this to a pond skater, gravity is of little use to it, and water tension is far more important to support its movements. I'm essentially saying its relevant to the world we live in and the world we are programmed for which makes evolutionary sense.

Kardashev scale is defined too much by our 'middle world' human software for it to be applicable to the vast variety of possibilites in the universe. The nature of random and what could be out there is infinite and we can't even begin to guess what energy scale is relevant to other civilisations. Hell we can't even begin to guess if they will even be made of cells!
 
Highly highly unlikely but 1000 monkeys over infinite time will write the works of Shakespeare.
Click to expand...

I've always hated this phrase, because I don't believe it to be possible. Monkeys would not only have to type all the letters in order to form words, but all the words together to form sentences, and paragraphs, and on and on.

I don't think it's possible. I think it's more probable that they type away forever without accomplishing that goal.
 
Dude, you don't understand the concept of 'infinite'.
 
Jintor said:
Dude, you don't understand the concept of 'infinite'.
Click to expand...

I do. And I still think it's impossible.

It's just as absurd as thinking that 1000 monkeys tapping away infinitely can code Windows Vista.
 
Raziaar you're completely missing the point. The point is that if you have a random string of characters constantly being generated for infinity, by the definition of infinity anything can result from it at some point.

It doesn't matter how remote the chances are. And it doesn't matter that it will take unbelievably long. That is the point of infinity.

Edit:

Let me break it down so that you can understand why it's mathematically sound.

Let's say there are 40 possible characters to type.

Let's say we want to type "Once upon a time"

So, the chances of typing 'O' would be 1 in 40. The chances of typing 'n' would be one in 40 also, but the chances of typing 'On' would be 1 in 40^2, or 1 in 1600. The chances of typing 'Onc' would be 1 in 40^3. And so on and so on for each character you add.

So, the chances of typing a work of Shakespeare would be 1 in 40^(however many characters are in the work) It's a hell of a small chance, but, the denominator is not infinity.

The point is, that there is a chance. And in an infinity amount of time, all possible results occur.

Thus, it would happen.
 
1000 monkeys banging away at typewriters will eventually write the works of Shakespeare but only given specific circumstances. 1000 monkeys will never write the works of Shakespeare if all they're hitting is the letter 'a', but if they're all typing random letters at random intervals, then yes, they will eventually do it. Just extremely unlikely.

The question is whether the universe contains infinities of any sort. As for likely occurances of life beyond our solar system, I imagine it's more plausible for it to exist in microbial forms, like primordial soup of early Earth life.

Mammalian and human life has existed for a fraction of a second compared to the entirety of all single and multicelled organisms.
 
Koola Mena said:
Who the shit knows?
Click to expand...

No one, that is why the poll asks what you think might be out there.

Anyway, for me, it is hard for my brain to fathom beyond a type 2. I could see a really advanced civilization being able to harness the energy a star but I don't see how it would be possible to harness the power of an entire galaxy.

edit:

This is a Dyson swarm, which depicts what a Type II civilization might look like, or what its energy capturing device looks like. Basically it is a megastructure that completely surrounds a star.

Dyson_Swarm.GIF


edit2:

Here is a good video by Dr. Michio Kaku explaining the scale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHbnM_42mQE
 
Shouldn't it be
0 - ability to harness the power of your body
1 - ability to harness external power like coal/oil/animals
2 - ability to harness nuclear power
3 - ability to harness power of a sun
4 - ability to harness power of a galaxy
5 - its identity consists of the collective energy/mass of the entire universe (irrelevant anyways)

I voted for war mongers just because I liked a short story where ftl space travel was really simple but somehow we completely overlooked the technology. So these aliens try to invade Earth with muskets and old fashioned technology but instead we kick their asses and learn how to make spaceships and conquer everyone else.
 
we live in a relatively quiet galaxy is a relatively quiet area of the galaxy. regardless life seems to be living in the hardest places to live, so i think its possible life can be just about anywhere we look. i just can't wait till we can talk to each other without talking into a device.
 
Warped said:
we live in a relatively quiet galaxy is a relatively quiet area of the galaxy. regardless life seems to be living in the hardest places to live, so i think its possible life can be just about anywhere we look. i just can't wait till we can talk to each other without talking into a device.
Click to expand...

Warped... I'm in your head talking to you. I bypassed your mental security measures.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Was that annoying?
 
Raziaar said:
Warped... I'm in your head talking to you. I bypassed your mental security measures.

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Was that annoying?
Click to expand...

no because i knew before you were going to do that so i cloned my brain last week to auto self destruct when you invaded and now i'm downloaded into a new body! :E
 
The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon.
 
There is no other life.

WE ARE THE CONQUERORS
 
if we're all alone, it just makes you feel good in a way because then we can still take over other planets in other star systems and try to take over the galaxy.
 
I'm pretty certain that life is out there. Intelligent life? Well, that's a different story. I certainly don't think there are any massive super high tech civilizations within our own local area, or we would have detected some sort of energy patterns.
 
"Two possibilities exist: Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying."
-Arthur C. Clarke
 
I think if there is any alien life, it will be vastly different to us. **** "The Greys". Look at how diverse life is on Earth, from grass to dogs to humans, and then try to imagine what it will be like on a world entirely different.

Yeah. Aliens will not look like people.
 
Yeah there should be an option for no other intelligent life.

It doesn't really matter anyway.
 
I think the scaling of civilisations in term of energy should be like:

Uncivilized: Master only the resources natural biosphere given to us. (Hunting, fishing, gathering, etc. All lifeforms can accomplish so.)
0- Master the way to increase and manage the yield from natural biosphere. (Farming, herding, burning wood stick, etc. Neolithic human society and some advanced ant communities can reach this level.)
1- Master and rely much on chemical energy in both organic and inorganic forms. (From gunpowder to electricity)
2- Profoundly master physical energy, i.e. geological energy and nuclear energy. (Solar, geothermal, tidal, fission and fusion powering, etc. Human is at the end of level 1 and advanced to level2)
3- Master direct energy extraction from beyond the home plant. (Outer space energy such as energy from neighboring plants, asteroids and mother star like the sun in the solar system.)
4- Master energy from outer space, beyond the solar system, in all known or unknown forms.

Anything far beyond level 4 is impractical. It is because the ability of a species is dominated by physics law. That is, the speed of traveling is confined within the speed of light. There is no way a species can create an empire made of multiple galaxies.


Hectic Glenn said:
Highly highly unlikely but 1000 monkeys over infinite time will write the works of Shakespeare.
Click to expand...
I thought Shakespeare means basically a thousand monkeys gathering together.
 
Whoops.

Being drunk off drinking half a bottle of NyQuil in.... 5 minutes, I've accidentally voted for every option...

omgadjv4.png


Also, apparently, Naudian must have drank the rest of my bottle. :D
 
Corp. Sheepo said:
The existence of life is a highly overrated phenomenon.
Click to expand...

What do you mean - that finding it exasparatingly miraculous is an overreaction... or that the fascination with the prospect of life on other planets is silly?
 
Warped said:
The Voyager program is amazing and will probably be the first to contact other life if its out there:
Click to expand...
I would have thought it's a bit slow. By the time it gets anywhere near another star I'm sure we'll have have much faster probes.
 
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