P4 3.0 or Athlon 64 3200+ ?

[gulo]

Hello
I am currently using P4 3.0 HT 800 MHz. I can get a mobo + AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU for couple hundred bucks. Now the question is, should I keep P4 and sell the athlon or should I install the athlon and sell the P4 ?
I've been looking at some benchmarks and it looks like P4 beats AMD in almost every aspect. I would definately like to move to 64 bit but I know that right now it will not do much for me. If I had some 1.5 GHz CPU I wouldnt think twice and put the AMD in, but since that P4 kicks ass so bad I am afraid I will actually downgrade my computer even though I will go from 32 to 64 bit.
Any ideas / experience ?

 

[Noodlygod]

I'd say if you don't have the Athlon yet then just keep the P4. 64 bit CPUs really are next to worthless until OS's and applications/games start supporting them. The Athlon FX is a much better chip than the Athlon 64 as well so if you ever make the move to 64 bit I'd go with an FX. Bottom line: Wait until OS's/apps start supporting 64 bit to make the move and then check the prices of the Athlon FX. Oh yeah, if you already have the Athlon and you feel up to it you could try it out and see if you like it better.

 

[poseyjmac]

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/amd_athlon_64_3400_review/page13.asp

look at the numbers for yourself on different games(its a 3400 review but it has 3200+ as well for reference). im assuming you want it mostly for good gaming performance since you're asking on hl2.net. the p4 3.0ghz isn't even listed in that benchmark, because the point is, the a64 procs are great gaming cpus regardless if you are taking advantage of 64bit in your OS.

its very simple. if you want better performance in games, get the a64 3200+.

 

[[Matt]]

for the layout you wont see a big increase... i would wait until CPU's break the 4 GHz barrier before even thinking about an upgrade.

 

[Asus]

Upgrading from a P4 3GHz with 800FSB is only a marginal increase going to a A64 in general. Games much more so though.
I would hold onto your P4 3GHz until Fall unless you get someone to buy your board/CPU for a good price then you might be able to justify diving into an A64 now.

BTW when looking at benchmarks you can't just count wins and losses. You have to put your own weight to the benchmarks in each review you read. Also sites will review a different suite of benchmarks and have a different POV. I don't know about you but when I rip MP3s my CD drive is my limitation, not my CPU.
Do you actually use that program or do you a different one that wasn't benchmarked that just so happens to run better on the other CPU? Some video encoding apps like the P4, Some like A64.
Business Winstone and Content creations run many industry standard desktop programs. They should have a lot of weight IMO.
Business Winstone 2004
Multimedia Content Creation Winstone 2004
CPUs benchmarked with Business Winstone and Content Creation

I have a AXP 2800+ and I can justify going to a A64 2800+ since it is a much better design and could give a good boost in my apps. Media and Games. Plus I'm selling my CPU/Board along with 512mb PC2700, Volcano 7 HSF and 300Watt PSU for 200$ to someone who needs those items for pretty cheap. My friend and I are both getting a good deal.

150$ for a new toy. Oh yeah.
People have been looking at the Moble A64's since there are 65watt and 35watt CPUs available in 2700+ to 3200+ models.
People are getting regular A64 3000+ to OC to 2.4GHz pretty easy. I'm looking at the new MSI nForce3 250gb board myself.

But again...is it worth it to you? Can you sell your parts for a enough to minimize the end cost?

 

[IchI]

install the athlon and get rid of the p4.

In my opinion Noodlygod is talking out of his ass. You don't need a 64 bit application to see its performance even now.

 

[Asus]

I think he is just giving another POV to gulo's questions.

While you do need at least a 64bit OS to take any advatage of the 64bits in the A64,
you obviously don't need anything to take advantage of todays 32bit performance on these chips.

 

[IchI]

I think he is just giving another POV to gulo's questions.

While you do need at least a 64bit OS to take any advatage of the 64bits in the A64,
you obviously don't need anything to take advantage of todays 32bit performance on these chips.

true, but he did come across as saying they where not very good on 32bit OS. When they are...

 

[amneziac85]

In my opinion Noodlygod is talking out of his ass. You don't need a 64 bit application to see its performance even now.

I agree, sounds like a Intel fanboy.

As far as for games, Athlon64 kills Intel. The intels only have an advantage in the brute force apps that are based on pure math calculations, like video encoding and audio encoding. But other then that...64bit is the way to go. Plus when windows 64bit edition drops later this year, youll be happy you went Ahtlon instead of Pentium.

 

[Asus]

Actually you can't narrow it down to even a section which is better.
Some apps in video encoding perfer AMD some Intel. It is actually down to the application and use rather than type of use alone.

Example: Link
But it does seem that the current P4 VS A64 that the only type of things the P4 can hold it's own or come out on top is in Video/Audio workstation stuff. Goes back and forth actually.

 

[gulo]

interesting debate.
I really wish those chips were further apart in performance. I know I could just try to put the 64 in and see the difference but of course I might not see any difference at all. The problem with a lot of benchmarks today is that they compare games performance at 1600x1200 with everything on...I only play games at 1024x768 anyway cause my monitor is crap, so mostly I wont even see the difference. Now the truth is that I mostly play games but I do some video encoding, since I have digital camcorder and I convert my DV footage into mpeg2. But again, even if the difference is 10% it doesnt really matter, it's not like it takes one week to encode the movie.
I would really like to upgrade to 64 because I might keep that MB+CPU for some time, which means I will still have it by the time windows 64 comes out, I just wanna have some kind of assurance I guess, that there will not be any significant loss of performance compared to my P4, which I know is extremly fast CPU.
As I said I can get the motherboard and CPU for $170 so I am pretty sure I can sell P4 3.0 + Intel MB for more than that which means it's not the question of money at all...

 

[blahblahblah]

Longhorn (the next consumer-level version of windows) won't come out until second half of 2006. Even if it is a 64 bit OS, chances are it will be 32 bit backwards compatible, so I wouldn't worry. Thats assuming that your current machine can run Longhorn when it comes out.

I wouldn't worry about Windows XP 64 bit edition unless you like being a guinea pig. Because that is what you will become as the OS, drivers and applications are tested for the first year or two.

[Edit]: Stay with your intel board. No need to reformat your harddrive and cause all sorts of other headaches for a small boost in speed. I am sure there are other computer upgrades that are more worth while.

 

[Asus]

The problem with a lot of benchmarks today is that they compare games performance at 1600x1200 with everything on...I only play games at 1024x768 anyway cause my monitor is crap, so mostly I wont even see the difference.

Actually as you increase the Resolution and AA/AF it is more dependent on the GFX card than the CPU.
You will actually see a bigger distance between the FPS at a lower Resolution.
1024x768 Pick a gfx card and compare the 2 CPUs FPS.
1600x1200 Now look at that same GFX card and compare the 2 CPUs FPS again.

If you can sell your board and CPU for a good price than I would upgrade.
You can always RMA the parts back if you don't like the setup.

What program do you use for video encoding?
Good review between CPUs on Video encoding - Link

 

[Gunner]

Forget Longhorn, it won't even run on on whatever system you buy now. Haven't you heard? here are the recommended specs:

Microsoft is expected to recommend that the "average" Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today.

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1581842,00.asp

 

[jet jaguar]

That's friggin insane for an operating system. What's it going to feature? Holographic displays?

 

[Subz]

a64 are way faster in games compared to thier p4(C or EE) counterparts.

that being said 3.4c and 3.4EE do beat out 3400+, but only in very few gaming situations (open gl or odd fsaa / res combo)

i recommend you not get the 3200+ a64. Wait for a bigger upgrade like 939 boards and pci-express. youhave a find proccy now.

 

[amneziac85]

a64 are way faster in games compared to thier p4(C or EE) counterparts.

that being said 3.4c and 3.4EE do beat out 3400+, but only in very few gaming situations (open gl or odd fsaa / res combo)

i recommend you not get the 3200+ a64. Wait for a bigger upgrade like 939 boards and pci-express. youhave a find proccy now.

He'll be waiting until 2005 if he did that. You COULD get a first generation pci-e mobo but you must love beta testing.

pci express isnt gonna give any performance boost with this generation of cards, so why wait 6 more months?

those pci-e w/ 939 mobos are gonna be overpriced into the $200+ range.

and 756 is still a nice socket considering by the time he buys his new processor in 1 or 2 years, hes gonna be buying a new motherboard and ram anyway.

If you play games, go ahead and get that 3200, and forget about pci-e. if anything MAYBE look at 939 but its not vitul.

 

[Subz]

yah but what he has now is fine if he were to upgrade i say wait till 4000+ barrier.

the leap to 3200+ isn't going to be too tremendous.

 

[Noodlygod]

I don't think I said a single word about the Athlon 64 or FX's performance in 32bit applications. And yes, the 64 bit chips (especially the FX) are faster than the Athlon XP's in 32 bit mode but no one is going to see the effect of 64 bit computing until applications start supporting it. So gulo if an extra 10 fps in games is worth 255 bucks then by all means go for it. I think that money would be better spent on a newer video card or more RAM.

 

[gulo]

well again - money is not the problem. I am getting this as a special deal for people who sell AMD stuff. So it will be very cheap for me, and I already have a friend who will pay more for my P4 cpu that the whole new AMD 64 will cost me.
I know that AMD has new socket coming up and PCI Express is coming our way too, but this is one of a kind offer for me, so I either take it or leave it now.

I think I will go ahead and upgrade after all. I know that there won't be probably much difference that I will see + all the headache with the reinstalling OS but at least in case I won't be upgrading in a long time from now on, I will be ready for 64 bit OS.
Also the motherboard that comes with it has some nice features like RAID, and gigabit ethernet.
As far as video card goes the first day HL2 (or Doom3) comes out I am buying X800 Pro, so I should be fine there.

BTW for video encoding I use tmpgenc.