Peculiar lack of FPP immersion

S

Stormboy

Guest
FPP=First Person Perspective

You know that great moment in Half Life 2 in dr.Kleiner's lab when for the first time you donned HEV suit and there was this superb hands animation? Well this topic is a continuation to that.

So, I was wondering the following things:

-when you are under water how come your hands don't do the swimming or anything at all, if you can recall from Far Cry wasn't that great piece of FPP immersion when you are under water?

-when you operate a turret or drive a vehicle you can't see your hands on the turret or on the steering wheel, I can't recall a game where you at least couldn't see your hands when operating a fixed weapons platform(or even entire body like Serious Sam 2, Halo, Turok), but just for the hands part SW:Republic Commando was one of the best, you could even see your fingers move when operating any of the many fixed weapon platforms.

-when climbing/descending ladders you can't see anything unlike in Dark Messiah, F.E.A.R., Riddick etc., it's kind of a let down when you come from those kind of FPP immersions to HL2 lack of it.

The title of this topic begins with "peculiar" because HL2 has one of the best FPP weapon immersions I have ever seen in FPS genre:the way your weapon is not fixed stiff to the screen while you move it around, the way you see more/less of your hands while pitching up/down, the firing effects, the reload animations(OK maybe COD4 has best reload animations ever) but overall HL2 definitely has the best FPP weapons immersion ever made in FPS genre.

So when you compare that superb part with the lack of all the things I listed it just further accentuates it. I can just imagine in my head how better would it be when you press E near turret and you see your weapon folding and grabbing the turret in a superb way just like the weapons usage is. The same goes for other things I mentioned. So you would basically have just 4 more animations-under water, turrets, steering wheel and ladders.

Maybe as far as Crysis with seeing picking every weapon and deploying every device, but that is perhaps too much for now.
Also remember Prey, you could even see flicking a light switch and when you were in that shuttle vehicle you could see your hand analog to your every mouse move?

I never played Half Life so I was wondering if this is some sort of strange tradition to keep it so minimalistic?
I don't mind minimalistic, it's just that many times it's at odds with the rest of its FPP immersion...in my view including those 4 elements would also be keeping it minimalistic(if you compare with Condemned 2 or something like that but FPS shouldn't go that far)...
 
Hey decon - back so soon?
 
Its like the first HL, its part of HL design, you will probably see the same in a hypothetical HL3.
 
Hello there Kronotaur! Glad to see you are back, among us once more.

http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127060

I was not planning to go into that but this is very simple:

1.Chronicles of Riddick :Escape From The Buthcer Bay
2.F.E.A.R.
3.Dark Messiah Of Might And Magic

As you can see they are superb games that show full body(everything you mentioned) thus giving greater immersion(especially 3.), and for some reason HL2 is not showing that thus making HL2 inferior to them in this respect because it is unwhole, it is screaming ratonalization of incompleteness.
So, what was it you were trying to say?

P.S.
@riomhaire
I would really appreciate it if you would stop forcing and inventing issues that I haven't started or mentioned. I specifically said two instances-steering wheel and turret, like in every other FPS.
 
Nobody here is asking the real important question here.

When I look down, why don't I see Gordon's cock?
 
So, there is not going to be any addressing to this lovely and cogent topic?
 
Nobody here is asking the real important question here.

When I look down, why don't I see Gordon's cock?

4 things people, 4 things, I repeated it twice..well now 4 times. Actually I did more than that, I said it shouldn't go so far as Condemned 2 or even Dark Messiah in some cases. Why don't you read the topic, is it too long?
No need to make it all silly clowny.
 
Are you going to admit to being kronotaur and decon?
 
Oh it's gonna get all major silly clowny up in this piece, son.
 
I'm going to excuse myself for now, and wait for more reasonable people to join in. I'm not going to incite any more trolling by moderators(what an odd thing...).
 
Nah he isnt iritating enough to be Deacon, but from those previous this is definately someone who has been banned in the past.
 
He's Decon/Kronotaur and probably a couple of others that have brought up the exact same non-topic.
 
I wonder how long it will take him to come back , im willing to bet hes making another profile right now.
 
I kinda agree with him. Will you feed me to the Cthulhu now?

I mean, look what they did in Mirrors Edge.

*runs away*
 
Great minds talk about ideas.
Average minds talk about events.
Small minds talk about people.

Guess what kind of mind is yours?
 
Great minds talk about ideas.
Average minds talk about events.
Small minds talk about people.

Guess what kind of mind is yours?

By making this post, aren't you talking about a person?

ARGH! PARADOX!

Also, a great mind wouldn't feel the need to sign up with multiple accounts in a lame attempt to force a discussion that they already knew the outcome of and which was done purely in an attempt to try to make themselves look good. Unsuccessfully, I might add. And yet, here you are.

Edit: Were, not are.
 
It is less effort for us to ban him, then it is for him to make an account.
 
To the world in general:


Let's take the example of opening a door in a first person game. Assuming that you stay in first person as the door opens you really have three options as how to handle this:
  1. Just have the door open and not bother including an animation for it. This is Half-Life 2's approach and gives complete freedom to the player, ie, the door can be opened from any angle and while the player is standing, running, walking, crouched or prone. This can be quite good for immersion as it is not forcing the player into any specific position to use the door. It is also realistic as a door in real life can be opened from multiple angles. Also, people tend not to notice the lack of an animation unless they are looking for it, which makes it quite acceptable presentation-wise unless the game is being marketed at prudes. This is also desirable for developers at it takes the least amount of effort to implement.
  2. You could also do the same as above, ie, have the door openable while the player is in any position, but also have an animation or multiple animations for it. This is probably the worst approach as, even if the animations look good from some angles, it is almost impossible to get it to look good from all angles. A good example of this is the lockpicking in Deus Ex. This can be done from any angle and involves JC Denton shaking a lockpick in front of a doorway. It looks awful. An bad animation is much more of an immersion breaker than no animation.
  3. Finally you can have a perfectly good animation that fits well into the world but restricts the player. In order to get hte animation looking perfect and non-awkward it is usually nessisary to lock the player in a certain place while it plays out. You can still have multiple angles but it will still be restricted. Although this looks the best of the three it can be somewhat counter-immersive. The contant playing of the same animation or the same few animations can distract, but the most distracting thing is that this approach will cause the player to lose control of his few and orientation for a moment.
 
Wait a minute... you're telling me Decon was Haruspex...?
 
What do you reckon about this? Mirror's Edge

It was posted somewhere else amoungst all this other sheeeet, but it looks like an orginial idea in this individual case. I don't know how it would affect combat though...
 
Im totally getting Mirrors edge , good thing you posted that link because i had totally forgot about it.
 
Left 4 Dead is going to show you your body. I think that this feature will stick.
 
I doubt it , It will almost certainly get in the way in half-life games , i mean i can think of tonnes of times when i needed to shoot an enemy from above (Ravenholm for example) and being able to see your body would get in the way a bit.
 
Really you should only be able to see the tips of your toes. Think about it, if you're aiming down the barrel of your gun, and can see a lot of your body (a la Crysis) you'd be in a very, very strange position. Mirror's Edge seems to be the only game that doesn't just try and stick a model of a body floating beneath you, it actually takes into account the position of the head and it's relation to what's visible.
 
It doesn't fit with the style of the Half-Life games even if it is possible.

Yeesh, we went over all of this in the previous thread!
 
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