Pistol Packing Pastor plans to burn tower of korans in memory of 9/11

[CptStern]

Pastor Terry Jones plans to burn multiple copies of the Koran on the anniversary of the September 11th terrorist attacks.

Mr. Jones, 58, a former hotel manager with a red face and a white handlebar mustache ... “We have to be careful,” he said. He tapped a holster on the right hip of his jean shorts; it held a .40-caliber pistol, which he said he was licensed to carry. “The overall response,” he added, “has been much greater than we expected.”

carrying a pistol in plain sight is exactly what jesus would do

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/us/26gainesville.html?_r=1&hp

And in another era, he might have been easily ignored, as he was last year when he posted a sign at his church declaring “Islam is of the devil.”

But now the global spotlight has shifted. With the debate in New York putting religious tensions front and center, Mr. Jones has suddenly attracted thousands of fans and critics on Facebook, while around the world he is being presented as a symbol of American anti-Islamic sentiment.

Muslim leaders in several countries, including Egypt and Indonesia, have formally condemned him and his church, the Dove World Outreach Center.

An Islamic group in England has also incorporated his efforts into a YouTube video that encourages Muslims to “rise up and act,” widening a concern that Mr. Jones — though clearly a fringe figure with only 50 members in his church — could spark riots or terrorism.

He acknowledged that it had brought in at least $1,000 in donations. But he said that the interviews he had done with around 150 news outlets all over the world were useful mainly because they had helped him “send a message to Islam and the pushers of Shariah law: that it is not what we want.”

Mr. Jones said that nothing in particular had set him off. Asked about his knowledge of the Koran, he said plainly: “I have no experience with it whatsoever. I only know what the Bible says.”

an ignorant man of the cloth? you dont say!

 

[Bob_Marley]

Mr. Jones, 58, a former hotel manager with a red face and a white handlebar mustache ... “We have to be careful,” he said. He tapped a holster on the right hip of his jean shorts; it held a .40-caliber pistol, which he said he was licensed to carry. “The overall response,” he added, “has been much greater than we expected.”

Hah, Brass Eye was right

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsgRlPoDEvk&feature=related

Mr. Jones said that nothing in particular had set him off. Asked about his knowledge of the Koran, he said plainly: “I have no experience with it whatsoever. I only know what the Bible says.

Glad to see that people are just as good at making highly informed decisions as ever...

 

[VictimOfScience]

Does this guy not realize that by associating Islam with 9/11 he is just as bad as the terrorists? They tried to hijack religion to fuel hate just as he is doing. He is the terrorist.

 

[<RJMC>]

Pistol Packing Pastor

????

 

[RidleyRockets]

Does this guy not realize that by associating Islam with 9/11 he is just as bad as the terrorists?

I don't see him flying jet planes into skyscrapers or blowing himself up. Sure he's an idiot but he is no way on par with the terrorists of 9/11.

They tried to hijack religion to fuel hate just as he is doing. He is the terrorist.

They didn't hijack a religion, they used a theologically sound argument as inspiration to hijack jets and murder lots of people.

The problem is if you read the crazy shit in the bible or koran then go out to murder infidels it is just as theologically valid as reading all the nice verses and baking someone a pretty cake.

 

[VictimOfScience]

I don't see him flying jet planes into skyscrapers or blowing himself up. Sure he's an idiot but he is no way on par with the terrorists of 9/11.

He is on par with them because he, like them, insists on saying that religion had anything to do with the terrorist attacks of 9/11. He is perpetuating a horrible myth/lie. Islam had NOTHING to do with 9/11--it is as simple as that. Anyone who says otherwise is trying to create division and an "other" group so that it is easier to see them as somehow different from us so when we attack them it won't seem so bad. We do the same thing with so-called "illegal aliens" in this country. Even just by calling them that we are putting them beneath the rest of the people in the country. The fact of the matter is they are human beings too who are in many cases much braver and have more conviction than most of the US population because they have risked their lives to come to this country to try to make a better life for themselves and their families. How we can disgrace them by treating them the way we do is beyond me. We should be embracing them and helping them make a better life because the more compassion we show, the more we will get in return. All we seem to show is horror, greed, and strife and that is, of course, what we keep getting back in return.

They didn't hijack a religion, they used a theologically sound argument as inspiration to hijack jets and murder lots of people.

LOL--yes they did and still are. They are perverting an idea and using it for something other than what it was intended, similar to perverting the course of a plane or bus and using it for one's own purposes.

And PLEASE explain to me how there is any such thing as a "theologically sound argument." Seems to me that saying anything is "theologically sound" is a contradiction of terms. Isn't that what faith is all about?

 

[RidleyRockets]

So a terrorist act committed in accordance to a fatwa by known members of a militant islamist group that openly calls for world jihad has nothing to do with islam?

A theologically sound argument is one that works within the frame work of the religion. It has nothing to do with a rational argument.

There is no way to tell if a religion has been perverted since there is no customer support hot line, you can't just hit up yaweh so he can give you the one true meaning to each verse. What a plumber says about the alleged words of a god is just as valid as the opinion of the highest religious leader.

 

[VictimOfScience]

So a terrorist act committed in accordance to a fatwa by known members of a militant islamist group that openly calls for world jihad has nothing to do with islam?

Let's just get something understood here: 9/11 was a reaction to US foreign policy, specifically our relation to the Israel/Palestine conflict. If there are people who have tried or are trying to make it about Islam, they are doing so for the same reason any religion exists: mind control. If the terrorists truly loved Allah, they would not have committed these acts just as if we truly loved Jesus, we would not have engaged in any of the heinous wrongdoing that we have gotten into practically since we became a nation. Religion here is a red herring.

A theologically sound argument is one that works within the frame work of the religion. It has nothing to do with a rational argument.

Sure, in the framework of made-up nonsense and fantasy any argument can seem sound I suppose. A good point. :|

 

[RidleyRockets]

If the terrorists truly loved Allah, they would not have committed these acts just as if we truly loved Jesus, we would not have engaged in any of the heinous wrongdoing that we have gotten into practically since we became a nation

What do you mean by truley love jesus/allah?

Why is your definition the correct one?

Can you demonstrate how loving jesus/allah and committing terrorist acts are mutually exclusive?

 

[VictimOfScience]

Can you demonstrate how loving jesus/allah and committing terrorist acts are mutually exclusive?

Ah, well compassion/peace/love isn't demonstrated by inciting terror in innocent people, maiming innocent people, killing innocent people, etc so I don't see how any so-called 'religious' people can ever reconcile their awful behavior.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Hopefully leads to more bloodshed. Depopulation is a must on this planet.

Spoiler

 

[RidleyRockets]

Ah, well compassion/peace/love isn't demonstrated by inciting terror in innocent people, maiming innocent people, killing innocent people, etc so I don't see how any so-called 'religious' people can ever reconcile their awful behavior.

What you are talking about is being moral, being moral and being religious are two completely different things.

 

[VictimOfScience]

What you are talking about is being moral, being moral and being religious are two completely different things.

So you are arguing in favor of what again? Don't get me wrong, I am just glad this thread is moving and the discussion lively. I am arguing that this pastor is just as guilty of distorting people's perceptions of religion (Islam in this case) as the terrorists and any media mouthpieces or politicians that bring it up to promote their own (****ed-up) agendas. I think we may have become lost in the weeds with some of this.

 

[RidleyRockets]

I just can't see how you can say that Islam played no part at all in 9/11 and that the pastor in question is as bad as terrorist when he hasn't committed any terrorist acts.

 

[VictimOfScience]

I just can't see how you can say that Islam played no part at all in 9/11 and that the pastor in question is as bad as terrorist when he hasn't committed any terrorist acts.

Ah, well I get that he isn't killing anyone, but he IS seemingly trying to use religion as a weapon and as justification for ridiculous behavior and violence just as the terrorists did. So while his tactics may be different, his overall strategy seems scarily similar.

 

[RidleyRockets]

Terrorists by definition systematically use terror in trying to achieve their goals, this guys just isn't doing anything like that. He's a dick with a gun who likes burning books. I think you're going overboard here.

 

[Raziaar]

Meh. Let the morons burn stupid books. As long as they paid for them and didn't just steal them, I don't give a damn.

 

[Dynasty]

''Ohhhh lay that pistol down, boy, lay that pistol down. Pistol-packin' mama, lay that pistol down''

Come on guys you know the words!

 

[Some_God]

Meh. Let the morons burn stupid books. As long as they paid for them and didn't just steal them, I don't give a damn.

Agreed. I don't understand what the big deal is...

 

[CptStern]

Agreed. I don't understand what the big deal is...

lol ok you cant be this naive.

when the freakin white house and the top commander of the US military take the time to respond to the actions of some backwater bigot it's a big deal

 

[Escaep]

As a Christian myself I don't approve of this one bit. I think its idiotic and pointless. Burning Korans isn't going to do anything except aggravate the situation even more. I have no doubt that this will be a great recruitment tool for Al-Qaeda any all the terrorist groups out there.

 

[Shakermaker]

In his 1821 play 'Almansor' Heinrich Heine wrote this on the burning of the Koran during the Spanish inquisition:

Dort, wo man Bücher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen.

Trans.: Where they burn books, so too will they in the end burn human beings.

Via the very extensive Book Burning Wiki. This is probably the most entertaining one:

Anti-Wilhelm Tell tract (at Canton of Uri)
The 1760 tract by Simeon Uriel Freudenberger from Luzern, arguing that Wilhelm Tell was a myth and the acts attributed to him had not happened in reality, was publicly burnt in Altdorf, capital of the Swiss canton of Uri — where, according to the legend, William Tell shot the apple from his son's head.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

You know what is sad, is that this guy in OUR society is an outcast and his church is a cult, and I'm not just saying that- they found the rulebook of his church and it includes cutting off all family contact, no outside contact, no eating out at restaurants, etc. A bunch of weird shit.

But .. like I was saying- in OUR society, this guy is an outcast. Everyone is denouncing him. YET OVER IN THE MIDDLE EAST

You have EVERY DAY PEOPLE, BUSINESS MEN. PEOPLE IN POWER who are chanting death to America in response. This isn't just their Al Qaeda, it isn't their radicals, it is their 'everyman' doing so. I'm not saying EVERYONE OVER THERE is, but there is a large percentage fo them that are and they're not the 'outcasts' like the pastor is in America.

Does it look like a bunch of hicks/outcasts to you? They're ****ing business men ffs.



All I have got to say to them is **** off. I'm all for condemning the burning, protests, what have you. Then these 'protests' (which are MASSIVE) start burning bibles and American flags. I guarantee you if a Christian was present and made it known he was, he'd be ****ing lynched right there.

 

[CptStern]

they burn the american flag in every country George Bush visits. hell it's not even exclusive to the US:

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=a49283f6-d082-4edb-9a93-4220773676f8

nor is it exclusive to foreigners

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/flag-desecration

you're just being alarmist

 

[blackout]

carrying a pistol in plain sight is exactly what jesus would do

an ignorant man of the cloth? you dont say!

if you're going to express your distaste for religion that's fine. but can you try and do so in a way that comes across as less disrespectful please? thank you.

peace

 

[No Limit]

I don't think burning the flag of a single government is quite the same thing as burning the holy text of an entire worldwide religion.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

they burn the american flag in every country George Bush visits. hell it's not even exclusive to the US:

http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story.html?id=a49283f6-d082-4edb-9a93-4220773676f8

nor is it exclusive to foreigners

http://www.aclu.org/free-speech/flag-desecration

you're just being alarmist

I'm not just talking about the American flag burning. I'm talking about the huge reaction in the Middle East to some outcast pastor.


I mean FFS, his church is affiliated with the Westboro Baptist Church. The ones that protest soldier's funerals calling them fags because America allows gays.

The reaction in the middle east to the pastor has been "Death to America" marches and rage in general from huge parts of their population. That's what pisses me off. They need to get a ****ing grip. It's not just poor uneducated doing that either, it's wealthy, educated, and people in power who are doing it as well and that should anger everyone.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

The problem is how much attention he's getting, from the news and otherwise.

 

[CptStern]

I'm not just talking about the American flag burning. I'm talking about the huge reaction in the Middle East to some outcast pastor.


I mean FFS, his church is affiliated with the Westboro Baptist Church. The ones that protest soldier's funerals calling them fags because America allows gays.

The reaction in the middle east to the pastor has been "Death to America" marches and rage in general from huge parts of their population. That's what pisses me off. They need to get a ****ing grip. It's not just poor uneducated doing that either, it's wealthy, educated, and people in power who are doing it as well and that should anger everyone.

just like how westerners think muslims are exactly the same all over the world

Spoiler

...I'm sure most muslims think the same about christians

if you're going to express your distaste for religion that's fine. but can you try and do so in a way that comes across as less disrespectful please? thank you.

peace

noted and ignored

 

[TwwIX]

Leave it to the christian, right wing zealots to bring out the worse in America. What exactly is this hate mongering ignoramus attempting to achieve?

 

[Sulkdodds]

Well, yeah, he's very obviously doing the whole thing for attention that the western media plus General ****ing Petraeus seem happy to give him.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I'm going to have to ask for a source on that

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/09/09/florida.quran.reactions/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/04/us-quran-burning-sparks-i_n_705973.html

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/Afghanista...ghanistan-petraeus-endanger/story?id=11569820

 

[Escaep]

Burn called off for now: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/florida.quran.burning/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1

The Florida pastor who had planned to burn copies of the Quran on Saturday has called it off.
The Rev. Terry Jones of the Gainesville, Florida-based Dove World Outreach Center made the announcement Thursday.

Earlier Thursday, President Obama said Jones' plan, which had triggered worldwide controversy, would be a "recruitment bonanza for al Qaeda."

 

[CptStern]

dude did you even read those? the first one is from individual people, some not even in the middle east, the second says thousands of protestors and the third says 1 hundred. you said a huge part of the middle east's population. that's the only point I'm asking for a source on. you make it sound like the entire middle east is up in arms

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

dude did you even read those? the first one is from individual people, some not even in the middle east, the second says thousands of protestors and the third says 1 hundred. you said a huge part of the middle east's population. that's the only point I'm asking for a source on. you make it sound like the entire middle east is up in arms

Individuals that are leaders of nations or huge groups. It's safe to say those groups and large populations of those nations are enraged.

I just feel those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

 

[T-6000]

As a Christian myself I don't approve of this one bit. I think its idiotic and pointless. Burning Korans isn't going to do anything except aggravate the situation even more. I have no doubt that this will be a great recruitment tool for Al-Qaeda any all the terrorist groups out there.

Perhaps that's what this pastor is trying to do, trying to rile up Muslims and Christians. You'd be surprised how many christians here actually want to nuke the middle east. As a Christian myself (Eastern Orthidox myself), I feel like smacking that pastor across his head. Then again, he'd probably accuse me of being a worthless Euro-trash that is trying to resurrect the anti-christ (Christians here also think the anti-christ will rise up in europe).

At the meantime, I wonder how that idiot pastor would feel about this?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/orthodox-jewish-youths-burn-new-testaments-in-or-yehuda-1.246153

 

[Some_God]

lol ok you cant be this naive.

when the freakin white house and the top commander of the US military take the time to respond to the actions of some backwater bigot it's a big deal

And if Muslims start to kill innocent people because of some backwater bigot, what does that say about them?

 

[No Limit]

And if Muslims start to kill innocent people because of some backwater bigot, what does that say about them?

Wow. The irony. That backwater bigot happens to be a christian. What does that tell you about all christians.

 

[unozero]

stick and stones No Limit

burning a piece of paper is diffenrt then lets say....gunning a guy down on his bike then stabbing him in the chest in broad daylight in the name of Islam.

 

[TwwIX]

stick and stones No Limit

burning a piece of paper is diffenrt then lets say....gunning a guy down on his bike then stabbing him in the chest in broad daylight in the name of Islam.

Yeah, but America is supposed to be civilized and open minded. Not Nazi Germany.