Playstation 3 dev kits rolling out in the UK

[Loke]

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=7525

Rob Fahey 15:46 21/03/2005

Britsoft developers get their first glimpse at Sony's next-gen plans in the flesh

Several studios in the UK are already working with development hardware for the next-generation PlayStation console, GamesIndustry.biz has learned, as Sony continues quietly rolling out dev kits to select partners ahead of the system's E3 unveiling.

A number of Japanese companies have had development hardware for the console for several months, and some are believed to be working on software demos for E3, but today brought the first confirmation that kits have shipped in the UK as well.

So far, however, the roll-out of systems appears to be to a small group of Sony's close partners, and we're only aware of two studios in the country which have hardware - although some others may simply be remaining more tight-lipped about the kits. Details of what exactly is present in the next-generation PlayStation dev kits are sparse, but according to one development source, "they're more advanced than the PowerMac kits [Microsoft] has given us [for Xenon] - they're still prototypes, but they're closer to what'll be in the final console... The graphics chip isn't there, say, but we can get a pretty good idea by taking an NVIDIA 6800 and saying, okay, it'll be like this but faster."

However, he did note that developers are expecting Microsoft to update the prototype PowerMac-based Xenon kits with more advanced hardware "pretty much any day now" - an important step for the company, since it's still planning to launch the next-generation Xbox before the end of the year, and industry rumours suggest that it may even have recently pulled the launch schedule forward by several weeks.

Sony plans to show the next-generation PlayStation off in public for the first time at its pre-E3 conference in Los Angeles in May, where it will almost certainly debut within a few hours of the public unveilings of Nintendo's Revolution and Microsoft's next-gen Xbox.

However, the system - which is based on a new chip called Cell, which was co-developed by IBM and Sony, and an NVIDIA graphics board - is not expected to start shipping to consumers until the second quarter of 2006 at the earliest.

 

[DigiQ8]

Pretty good
I heared Sony will use up to 9 Cells in PS3
hmm lets see every cell has 5GHZ
5x9 = 45GHZ.......

*shots himself*

 

[lePobz]

Pretty good
I heared Sony will use up to 9 Cells in PS3
hmm lets see every cell has 5GHZ
5x9 = 45GHZ.......

*shots himself*

You can't add up GHz like that, GHz is a measure of speed per clock cycle... you should read into how many operations per clock cycle each SPE can carry out.

There are not 9 cells in each PS3, there is one. Each cell has 8 SPEs and one PPE (hence why most idiots think there are 9 cells). The whole cell is clocked at ~3ghz. There may be more processing units, but only the PPE can assign instructions to these extra units. I'd say it's nothing special.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=1

Read up. They don't think it's anything special either.

What is interesting is the lack of a GPU in the dev kit ... wouldnt that make it hard to program hardware instructions for a GPU they don't even have?

 

[DigiQ8]

You can't add up GHz like that, GHz is a measure of speed per clock cycle... you should read into how many operations per clock cycle each SPE can carry out.

There are not 9 cells in each PS3, there is one. Each cell has 8 SPEs and one PPE (hence why most idiots think there are 9 cells). The whole cell is clocked at ~3ghz. There may be more processing units, but only the PPE can assign instructions to these extra units. I'd say it's nothing special.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=1

Read up. They don't think it's anything special either.

What is interesting is the lack of a GPU in the dev kit ... wouldnt that make it hard to program hardware instructions for a GPU they don't even have?

hmm
ill read that tomorrow ( 2 AM )

*sees LePobz Avy*
*drools*

 

[lePobz]

hmm
ill read that tomorrow ( 2 AM )

*sees LePobz Avy*
*drools*

Heh, ok... i'll just post a rather demeening quote, then...

" So, while Cell is the best mass-market attempt at a design approach that has been tried before, it doesn’t have history on its side for success beyond a limited number of applications."

As for my avatar ... Those are my manboobs ... bet you've stopped drooling now :thumbs:

Spoiler

Joking, they're not really.

 

[B-MAn]

yeh its like if 3 cars all going 20mph. it doesn;t mean teh cars are going 60mph but that they all are sharing the workload

EDIT: ok having read my post thats a bad example

\me also drools at lepobs' av :imu:

 

[Lt. Drebin]

I see another "emotion" engine conspiracy.

Built up greatly but suddenly pales in comparison to XBox and GameCube. Hope I'm wrong though...They really hyped the piss out of the power of the PS2 and it wasn't even much of a jump from the DreamCast. I would love to see three equally footed consoles fighting it out for our gaming pleasure.

 

[smwScott]

The PS2 was a significant jump from the Dreamcast, and relatively on par with X-BOX and NGC. The reason they're better is because they had a full year extra, but Sony definitely had the better development behind their console. MS or Nintendo couldn't come close to matching the PS2 when it released, and their final product one year later was only marginally better.

Now it's looking like MS and maybe Nintendo will release their consoles early (giving their current consoles some extremely short life cycles, being released after the PS2 and having a sequel out before the PS3). Theres no doubt about it, PS3 will be the technical beast of this generation, and will probably be a much larger jump than the X-BOX was from PS2.

 

[lePobz]

The xbox and the PS2 were the same generation. To say that the PS3 "will probably be a much larger jump than the X-BOX was from PS2" is a bit silly, really... it's the next generation of console, it will blow the current generation out of the water. All the new consoles will, theres no 'probably' about it. I think you're wrong in saying the PS3 will be the technical beast though, the Xenon more than meets the hardware specs of the PS3 (in terms of raw processing, the two PPC cores could perform better than the one PPC and 8 sub-cores of the cell) and the graphics chips in the chips are both based on the next generation flagship models from ATi (xenon) and nVidia (ps3) ...

The best anyone can do is just wait and see. If PGR3 is a launch title for Xbox2, Sony is doomed.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

MS or Nintendo couldn't come close to matching the PS2 when it released, and their final product one year later was only marginally better.

Keep tellin yourself that.

No gaming company could come up with similar specs....oh wait....Sega was pretty damn close and one year ahead of Sony. But no chance of Nintendo or MS matching Sony at that current time.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

The xbox and the PS2 were the same generation.

The PS2 is somewhere in between the XBox/GameCube and the Dreamcast.....closer to the Dreamcast. The PS2 came a little over a year after the Dreamcast and the XBox and GameCube came 1 year after the PS2. If you want to clump everything together....the Dreamcast is part of this generation as well. You'd have to include it. You guys are shorchanging the Dreamcast.

Fact...read up. The GameCube and XBox are more advanced than the PS2 than the PS2 is over the Dreamcast.

 

[Loke]

Fact...read up. The GameCube and XBox are more advanced than the PS2 than the PS2 is over the Dreamcast.

PS2 beats Xbox on some things, GC beats PS2 on some things und so weiter. Xbox is more powerful overall though, but PS2 still manages to beat it on some things.
Your last claim is rediculus though “The GameCube and XBox are more advanced than the PS2 than the PS2 is over the Dreamcast”, perhaps combined but not by their own. :laughing:

I think you're wrong in saying the PS3 will be the technical beast though, the Xenon more than meets the hardware specs of the PS3 (in terms of raw processing, the two PPC cores could perform better than the one PPC and 8 sub-cores of the cell) and the graphics chips in the chips are both based on the next generation flagship models from ATi (xenon) and nVidia (ps3) ...

The PlayStation 3 will most likely be the most powerful system ever released when it comes out about 6 months after Xenon.

Its how things work, it’s the biggest problem with launching first.

And reports are already coming in from the developers who have received or know of the PS3 Dev kit that it already in its prototype stage (without the final GPU) more advanced than the Xenon. Also one developer was quoated saying “It will be orders of magnitude more powerful than the Xbox 2” .. even if I think it’s a little over the top.

But one thing is pretty much set in stone, it WILL be more powerful then Xenon, even the biggest Xbots I know of admit this , the question is by how much (I think the CELL (somewhere between 256-521 gigaflop compared to the 84-90 or something for the Xenon CPU) + Next Gen nVidia GPU will be pretty sweet, remember PS3 seems to differ from PS2 quite a bit, PS2 = great CPU, weaker GPU .. PS3 is looking like it will be Great CPU Great GPU)? We will just have to wait and see.

 

[<RJMC>]

I agreed whit the loke post that PS2 do some things beter that xbox

for example there a game called project snowblind and Gamespot say that it looks better in PS2 that in xbox

I dont know how to describe the strong point of the PS2 but sure if you compare ps2 to xbox you will notice some goodies in PS2 even if it dont hav hig resolution textures

 

[Alig]

PS2 might not be as powerful as Xbox is on the hardware side but still...i bet there are people out there with a processor and memory faster than my 2.6AMD+ and 1gb DDR400 that have slower computers than i do because not everyone knows how to use what the Xbox "has" (aimed at the developers). I've seen the advert for GT4 anyway on TV several times and it's better than any Xbox game i've seen to date - given, its only a racing game but its still alot better graphics and why? because Polyphony know how to use the PS2's hardware to it's best (and don't go post a picture of GT4 taken with an ancient mobile phone camera).

Edit/ Even after all that...i don't even care what has the best hardware because i could just turn my PC on. What matters on consoles is software and PS2 > Xbox > GC (maybe not for some one-off games the Xbox and GC has [PS2 has 3 of the best games ever made anyway] but for choice).

 

[Warbie]

mmmmm I want a PS3

Too many consoles and not enough money :/

 

[FictiousWill]

GCN is far more powerful than the ps2. Look at the mgs and re4 ports to ps2. Ugh. GCN and xbox are more ona par, but the ps2 is ancient tech.

 

[Griz]

You can't add up GHz like that, GHz is a measure of speed per clock cycle... you should read into how many operations per clock cycle each SPE can carry out.

There are not 9 cells in each PS3, there is one. Each cell has 8 SPEs and one PPE (hence why most idiots think there are 9 cells). The whole cell is clocked at ~3ghz. There may be more processing units, but only the PPE can assign instructions to these extra units. I'd say it's nothing special.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2379&p=1

Read up. They don't think it's anything special either.

What is interesting is the lack of a GPU in the dev kit ... wouldnt that make it hard to program hardware instructions for a GPU they don't even have?

Actually the PS3 will contain 4 Cell processors not 1. There's a great article in this months PC Format. Here's a few quotes to whet your appetite.....

"Each Cell processor has eight SPE's [Synergistic Processor Elements] all running simultaneously.......[each] SPE can handle four 32-bit values every clock cycle, at a maximum throughput of 32 billion operations per second"

"Each SPE can move two registers to or from local memory per cycle. At the 4.6GHz likely debut speed for Cell, this works out at 147 gigabytes per second per SPE" - remember each PS3 will have four Cell's each with eight SPE's.....a total of 32 SPE's!!!

"Since all the SPE's can access their local storage independently, this gives an aggregate memory bandwidth of more than a terabyte per second."

"Two Playstation 3s linked together would be the 500th most powerful computer on the planet...."

"According to industry watcher Nicholas Blachford........If overclocked sufficiently (over 3.0GHz) and using some very optimised code (SSE assembly), five dual-core Opterons directly connected via HyerTransport should be able to achieve a similar level of performance in stream processing as a single cell."

I could go on, but i'd rather you just went out and bought the mag, it's a very interesting article but i can't help being somewhat skepticle......."Emotion Engine" anyone?....

 

[EVIL]

but i can't help being somewhat skepticle......."Emotion Engine" anyone?....

I read that as a dedicated AI chip

 

[<RJMC>]

GCN is far more powerful than the ps2. Look at the mgs and re4 ports to ps2. Ugh. GCN and xbox are more ona par, but the ps2 is ancient tech.

MGS ports?

the MGS are first on ps2 so they are the one ported

are pics of re4 in ps2?

 

[FictiousWill]

Yeah, exactly, mgs on the gamecube has its polycounts and texture resolution upped for the more powerful system, and resident evil 4 models are having their polycounts reduced by a third on average and textures are scaled down for the less powerful ps2 version.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

PS2 beats Xbox on some things

Like what? I'm curious.

We should site the Splinter Cell series for this debate. Those games have to be sooo dummied down to even run on a PS2.

I'm not saying that the PS2 doesn't produce, but they have to cut a lot of corners. See GT4. Pictures for background (although beautiful), no damage to cars, and to make the game seem faster they use wind noise and blurring.

The XBox has twice the memory, twice the memory bandwidth, more than twice the processing power, five times the polygon performance(max and sustained), the PS2 does not support FSAA in all applications, Dolby Digital 5.1...should I continue?

http://www.gamersmark.com/editorials/view/49/

Your last claim is rediculus though “The GameCube and XBox are more advanced than the PS2 than the PS2 is over the Dreamcast”, perhaps combined but not by their own. :laughing:

Is it really that ridiculous a claim?? No more ridiculous than what you just said...even if it is just a joke. Shenmue and Soul Calibur are as good looking as a lot of the PS2 games available...and better than a few. Hell, even the Dreamcast used FSAA for everything. I should say it's about equal...the PS2 is equally more advanced than the Dreamcast as the XBox and GameCube are over the PS2.

 

[Loke]

Like what? I'm curious.

We should site the Splinter Cell series for this debate. Those games have to be sooo dummied down to even run on a PS2.

Fill rate, particle effects.. PS2 is great at that.

Some examples, the dubed down rain effect in MGS2.. The Xbox version cant even maintain a solid 60fps while you are running around in the rain.

The particle effects in Burnout 3 are dubed down in the Xbox version compared to the PS2.

Missing snow effects/lightning in SSX3, and so on.

See GT4. Pictures for background (although beautiful), no damage to cars, and to make the game seem faster they use wind noise and blurring.

Yamauchi said no console of this generation will be able to handle the crash model he has in mind, we are talking way more advanced than Burnout 3.
To make the game seem faster? Wtf? The only blurring I have noticed is while you crash. The game is a rock solid 60fps (unlike Forza) it does not need to cheat. Try playing the game instead of making up lies.

the PS2 does not support FSAA in all applications, Dolby Digital 5.1...should I continue?

False, and.... false.

Its up to the developer if he wants to use AA, FSAA (BGDA, CoN, RtA) .. PS2 is a very open system, you will have to do most of the stuff yourself.
Some games with AA, Jak 2, Jak 3, Getaway, TTT, Tekken4,5, all snowblind games (FSAA if Im not mistaken?) etc.

About the DD 5.1, there are a few games that support it, SSX Tricky, NHL 200x (forgot which one), and if Im not mistaken Vice City has support for DTS (the music).

Shenmue and Soul Calibur are as good looking as a lot of the PS2 games available...and better than a few.

Come on, have you even played ANY Ps2 game post the release?
DC is no where NEAR PS2.. It might compare to a 100 dollar budget PS2 game, but it cant compare to any of the newer PS2 games, anyone with a set of eyes can see this.

the PS2 is equally more advanced than the Dreamcast as the XBox and GameCube are over the PS2.

If I would post that on any of the more technical forums people would probably suffocate while laughing.

 

[mosquave]

I've never been a fan of Sony consoles although I've owned a hell of a lot of Sony products and never had any problems with them. PS3 looks like it might change that as long as they put some decent sticks on the controller. Thats all I ask.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Fill rate, particle effects.. PS2 is great at that.

Some examples, the dubed down rain effect in MGS2.. The Xbox version cant even maintain a solid 60fps while you are running around in the rain.

The particle effects in Burnout 3 are dubed down in the Xbox version compared to the PS2.

Missing snow effects/lightning in SSX3, and so on.

OK...I'll buy it. Name some more things that the PS2 does better.

MGS2 was a port and SSX 3 should be considered one. Let's not get into the issues that can result from porting games....such as hardware optimization and simply forgeting details.....etc etc.

Yamauchi said no console of this generation will be able to handle the crash model he has in mind, we are talking way more advanced than Burnout 3.
To make the game seem faster? Wtf? The only blurring I have noticed is while you crash. The game is a rock solid 60fps (unlike Forza) it does not need to cheat. Try playing the game instead of making up lies.

So...because it can't handle his vision, let's not do any damage modeling at all...right. What sounds more realistic: Not putting any damage modeling at all because it doesn't meet your exact vision orrrr because you've chosen to model some 700 vehicles, it would be an insurmountable technological milestone for the PS2 to overcome??

Link me please....on what planet are you living where you can play GT4 on the PS2 at a rock solid 60 fps?? I beleive that was a prerelease claim. After playing the game for some time...I've noticed dipping frame-rates that depend on course and number of cars on screen.....I'm making up lies? And it is a FACT that they use some blurring and wind noise to simulate a faster experience in certain situations.

It's a beautiful game, not doubt, but it does "cheat" as you like to put it....not because of laziness, because they have to. Prerendered pictures for background is cutting a corner, no damage modeling is cutting a corner. It's still beautiful and they did a wonderful job with it.

And further...let's diss a game that hasn't even left the build stage. I'm sure Forza and GT4 will have a nice shootout when it's finally released.

About the DD 5.1, there are a few games that support it, SSX Tricky, NHL 200x (forgot which one), and if Im not mistaken Vice City has support for DTS (the music).

There is not one PS2 game that uses in-game Dolby Digital 5.1. 6 discrete channels of sound....not one. It uses standard Dolby surround or Pro Logic 2 for it's in-game sound and some games use 4 channel DTS. The only time you'll hear DD5.1 is during a prerendered cutscene. That's it. I never said the PS2 is incapable of using real-time in-game DD 5.1, but not one developer has.....that should tell you something.

Its up to the developer if he wants to use AA, FSAA (BGDA, CoN, RtA) .. PS2 is a very open system, you will have to do most of the stuff yourself.
Some games with AA, Jak 2, Jak 3, Getaway, TTT, Tekken4,5, all snowblind games (FSAA if Im not mistaken?) etc.

I never said the PS2 didn't utilize it, but again....it boils down to what corners you want to cut....not whether or not the developer wants to...whether he can? Do you believe the PS2 uses FSAA in the Splinter Cell series....you bet they don't...can't. That's why I said it can't support it in all applications....it depends on how tasking the game is.

Come on, have you even played ANY Ps2 game post the release?
DC is no where NEAR PS2.. It might compare to a 100 dollar budget PS2 game, but it cant compare to any of the newer PS2 games, anyone with a set of eyes can see this.

Dude, stop dissing the Dreamcast. I still play it and I stand by my claim that both of those games, among others, on a general level, can rival some PS2 games. You act like I said the Dreamcast owns the PS2 in all areas and not one game on the PS2 could match the Dreamcast. Relax....it's really not that bold of a claim.

 

[Warbie]

All the next gen consoles are going to be powerful enough. It's the software that really matters - which is the reason why I want a PS3.

The PS2 really came into its own in the latter half of its life, offering a more diverse library than the GC and Xbox put together. Now the DC is dead the PS2 is also the only place you'll find decent arcade games. Hopefully the PS3 will pick up where it leaves off.

(it's just nudged the Xbox 2 into 3rd place in my 'most wanted console' list)

 

[Loke]

OK...I'll buy it. Name some more things that the PS2 does better.

IIRC the PS2 is very good at drawing un-textured polygons.. For examples check out the worlds in the Jak and Ratchet games, especially Jak 1 with its advanced lod-engine (no load times) etc.

So...because it can't handle his vision, let's not do any damage modeling at all...right.

As you may or may not know, Yamauchi is a very picky man. He wants everything to be as realistic as he can do it, and today with the 'limited' number of polygons per car and the heavy load of calculating advanced collisions, it cant be done in a good way (unless you want just one car on the road). Remember Vipe Racing, the cars looked great while they were undamaged.. But once you hit that wall, polygon edges everywhere.

I think it was Microsoft who made that kick ass XNA demo of a car crashing.. That is what he wants.

Link me please....on what planet are you living where you can play GT4 on the PS2 at a rock solid 60 fps?? I beleive that was a prerelease claim.

Link you where? Gran Turismo 4 runs at a rock solid 60 frames per second, this is a FACT.

After playing the game for some time...I've noticed dipping frame-rates that depend on course and number of cars on screen.....

Congratulations, you must be the first person to see this. I find it amazing that you can not see the difference between 30 fps and 60fps, yet you can detect magical framedrops.

I'm making up lies?

Obviously you are.

And it is a FACT that they use some blurring and wind noise to simulate a faster experience in certain situations.

There are wind noises/tyre noises, but they are present at all times. Does the game feel slower if you turn the sound off? No, it runs at the same speed. I have only seen blurring when you crash into something.

There is not one PS2 game that uses in-game Dolby Digital 5.1. 6 discrete channels of sound....not one. It uses standard Dolby surround or Pro Logic 2 for it's in-game sound and some games use 4 channel DTS. The only time you'll hear DD5.1 is during a prerendered cutscene. That's it. I never said the PS2 is incapable of using real-time in-game DD 5.1, but not one developer has.....that should tell you something.

I was wrong, the first reviews claimed Tricky used DTS 5.1 , but SSX T uses 4.1 DTS, much like Halo.

I never said the PS2 didn't utilize it, but again....it boils down to what corners you want to cut....not whether or not the developer wants to...whether he can? Do you believe the PS2 uses FSAA in the Splinter Cell series....you bet they don't...can't. That's why I said it can't support it in all applications....it depends on how tasking the game is.

I would not consider the Splinter Cell games to be top of the line for PS2.. They are ports, and quite ugly with heavy slowdowns, no where near the best looking PS2 games. Its like the MGS2 port for Xbox but on the PS2. Missing effects (could be a hardware problem) and slowdowns where the PS2 version had none.

Dude, stop dissing the Dreamcast.

When you stop making up lies.

 

[Warbie]

Ladies, draw you handbags.

Attack!

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Link you where? Gran Turismo 4 runs at a rock solid 60 frames per second, this is a FACT.

Still no link. I've searched and still cannot find anything on this. And as far as detecting framerates.....on my PS2 there is noticable slowdown on some of the more detailed tracks especially when a lot of cars are being rendered at once. Perhaps a drop from 60 to somewhere in the 30s.....that is noticable....it's a noticable drop in the fluidity of the game. 30 fps is still fluid, but a sudden abrupt drop in framerate is noticable.....again....the actual DROP is noticable. I also get noticable slowdown on God of War and KillZone to name a few others. I can't speak for everyone, but that is my experience with GT4.

Again...I'm not ripping this game, just pointing out my experiences with it. I think the game's beautifully done, but I find it amazing that you persist in telling me I'm wrong in my own expereinces....this coming from a person that's yet to provide proof for his claims. Hey....I'm a liar so what do I know.

He wants everything to be as realistic as he can do it, and today with the 'limited' number of polygons per car and the heavy load of calculating advanced collisions, it cant be done in a good way (unless you want just one car on the road).

OK....so what's your point. I think that's what I was getting at. It's a corner cutting manuever so as to get other areas of the game running at an acceptable level. With that many cars among the other things going on in-game....damage modeling cannot be done in an efficient manner. I personally find that too be a big issue. Should be interesting how it is handled in Forza.

When you stop making up lies.

Maybe you should explain to me how my opinion on certain games for the Dreamcast make me a liar. I think Doom 3 looks better than HL2....someone else doesn't agree with me....I guess that makes me a ****ing liar.

Further, all the claims you've made have not been accompanied by any kind of link or proof.....have I called you a liar? No. So continue insulting me, it hasn't helped your position any. I however provided linkage to my earlier claims on the XBox's power.

You sit there and say FACT, but until you provide some proof of someone of authority saying GT4 runs at a solid 60fps...it's rubbish. I don't see anyone running to your side to defend your claim so maybe that should tell you something. Maybe you've experienced a solid 60 fps, but I haven't seen any kind of concensus on the issue and my experience has been far from that type of fluid gameplay...so it's not a FACT....show me a link.

 

[smwScott]

Whoever quoted me on my post didn't understand what I was saying. I said that the PS3 will likely be a bigger leap from the Xenon than the X-BOX was from PS2. This seems fairly obvious, as the Xenon seems very "evolutionary" (its just another somewhat high end PC in a box) while the PS3 seems "revolutionary." The tech itself is a helluva lot more powerful than Xenon, but the way it networks with other cell processors is whats truely impressive.

Now I just wanna say a few things from a fairly unbiased perspective. The PS2 is a much more technically advanced console than the DC. The NGC and X-BOX are somewhat more advanced than the PS2. PS2 games still look just as good as the competition because developers are much more interested in developing games for it due to a much larger fanbase.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Loke]

Still no link. I've searched and still cannot find anything on this. And as far as detecting framerates.....on my PS2 there is noticable slowdown on some of the more detailed tracks especially when a lot of cars are being rendered at once. Perhaps a drop from 60 to somewhere in the 30s.....that is noticable....it's a noticable drop in the fluidity of the game. 30 fps is still fluid, but a sudden abrupt drop in framerate is noticable.....again....the actual DROP is noticable.

Jesus, have you been drinking too much? I think it has affected your brain.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/driving/granturismo4/review-3.html Video Review

“and though only six cars on the track at any time the game suffers zero slowdown”

Let me quote him again so it gets through to you.

“and though only six cars on the track at any time the game suffers zero slowdown”
“the game suffers zero slowdown”
“zero slowdown”
“zero slowdown”

-->Z E R O S L O W D O W N.<--

Did you get that?

GT4 runs in 480i, 480p and 1080i (NTSC) at 60fps and no slowdowns. Clear enough?
Enter this into Google to find out more ‘60fps GT4’

It's a corner cutting manuever so as to get other areas of the game running at an acceptable level.

I’ll just quote the man himself.

Then we come to car damage. We also planned to implement this feature in GT4 but we found that, technically, we could not do it to a level that satisfied our respect for the Gran Turismo brand.

If he had added a damage system in GT4 it would have made the quality of the game worse. Because the only way to do a damage system on the limited consoles of today is to make the degrees of damage pre-set.. For examples check out PGR2 or any of the NFS games that have damage. Yamauchi wants to do it in a way that the there are no levels of damage, no pre-set models for damaged cars, he wants them to be done in real time (XNA demo). Its not cutting corers, because it can not be done on any of the consoles today.

Maybe you should explain to me how my opinion on certain games for the Dreamcast make me a liar. I think Doom 3 looks better than HL2....someone else doesn't agree with me....I guess that makes me a ****ing liar.

GT4 not being 60fps is a lie. You would have to be pretty darned special if you can not see the difference of todays PS2 games compared to the dead DC systems games.

You claim to see a drop in framerate in GT4, yet you cant see that it runs at 60fps? Its quite easy to tell the difference between a 30 and a 60 fps.. For me it only takes a few seconds to see the difference.

Now I wont waste any more time on you. Adjö.

 

[Lt. Drebin]

Good, now that you're finished I'll add my closing touched.

http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/driving...4/review-3.html

Finally. Was that so hard to find a link. No one would believe a claim like that unless they'd played it under such circumstances. Rock solid 60 fps on a PS2?? I still have not. Now I'll gradly be exchanging my PS2 at Best Buy tomorrow, because mine slows down with 4-5 cars on the screen at once. Also God of War is having some trouble on my machine also.....a similarly tasking game.

If he had added a damage system in GT4 it would have made the quality of the game worse.

As I've said repeatedly, I'm not flaming this game. I own it and love it. BUT....you can at least understand my point when I say something like "THE ULTIMATE DRIVING SIMULATOR" is not accuratly dipicting reality. And it's not that he couldn't do damage modeling with a high level of quality....it's been done on today's consoles....forget real time for now and just do something that will contribute to the games Most cars in reality do have a limit of how much damage they can take before they stop working altogether.

It's really the only issue I have with this game. I find it to be ludicrous that I can run into anything I want, not suffer any kind of damage, and the car continues to run fine.....it never dies. I agree that would make races difficult to finish at times as it can get seriously messy, but hey....that's reality.

GT4 not being 60fps is a lie. You would have to be pretty darned special if you can not see the difference of todays PS2 games compared to the dead DC systems games.

You seem to still have trouble understanding that simply because a person has a different experience.....it is not a lie. Gran Turismo 4 does NOT run at a "rock solid, unwavering" 60 fps on my machine. Clearly my PS2 has something wrong with it. I heard what the reviewer says and I don't doubt him....as I said earlier...I'll now be exercising my extended warranty.

And further...I was never comparing those DC games to all PS2 games.....as you think I am. I merely said those games were on PAR with some of the PS2 games out there. And IN MY OPINION, they are. Just because you don't share it, still doesn't make me wrong.