Please OH PLEASE

[Sgt_Shellback]

Keep giving social welfare to all the countries of the world... Please oh please spread the wealth of all those people who earn a hard living to the laziest most pathetic human beings on this planet.

Please oh please take all sharp edged blades and anything dangerous from all of man kind because I'm afraid of them..

Please oh please protect the rights of those who would kill children and infants...

Please oh please tax anyone who actually earns a buck up until the point that they say, "What's the point? I'm moving!!!"

Please oh please make me a European. Preferably Spanish. Or maybe French Candian so that I too could care nothing about myself and only about what others should be giving me...

 

[Tr0n]

Fun for the whole family.

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

They'll complain I'm being harsh but that's what I hear them saying.

GIVE ME GIVE ME GIVE ME

Please oh please dont hurt the poor man planting the bomb next to the school yard... He's just rebel... Awe!

Astericks to you who pitty him and want a handout from someopne who EARNED his buck.

 

[Korgoth]

please OH please shut up! You are rediculous!

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

You are from Kentucky....

 

[qckbeam]

Nice flamebait Sgt_Shellback

 

[kmack]

i dont get it :|

 

[gh0st]

Good post!

 

[Hazar]

=crack trip?

 

[CptStern]

hehhe it's aimed at me ..hahaha pretty weak if you ask me

 

[Bodacious]

I love this forum

A conservative makes a point = flamebait
A liberal makes a point = decent topic for discussion.

Sorry for the OT,

Good post shellback

 

[Sainku]

You are from Kentucky....

Good one!


Its funny how I always find myself agreeing with people I despise.

 

[Kangy]

Don't bother helping me through my job loss! My work closed down and I've been unable secure a new job! It's not like I need to feed my children at the end of the day!

Don't bother expecting those who make so much more than they could ever spend to help the country a little more than anyone else!

I don't want to be European!

 

[15357]

Don't bother us...

It's not like we don't have guns to shoot at you...

 

[Tr0n]

Yay for left and right extremeist!

I say we centrist should hunt them down.

 

[Link]

Thats a bit extreme tron

Sgt_Shellback - I was with you till you suddenly turned anti-europe, which is rediculous. Joining Europe would make us stronger, bith financially and in terms of our combined forces.

Kangy - Its not about not helping people who want to work, its about not pouring money on people who have decided "I'm not going to work for a living, but live of the state" As long as you are looking for work and will accept a job if given to you via the benefit system, then I have no issue with my tax money supporting you and your family.

 

[$kelet0r]

I love a compelling well thought out sensitive all encompassing argument well presented and delivered tolerantly
oh sorry wrong thread; )

 

[Absinthe]

I love this forum

A conservative makes a point = flamebait
A liberal makes a point = decent topic for discussion.

Sorry for the OT,

Good post shellback

What point? He's bitching aimlessly about something. But there's certainly not anything that actually clarifies a point.

This is flamebait. He's directly goading people with a topic that's 45% condescendence, 45% mocking, and 10% substance. Not to mention he's painted Europe as some kind of death-loving union run by the lazy, which is fairly insulting.

Of course, you're blind to this since you seeminlgy share the same repugnant views.

 

[kirovman]

Keep giving social welfare to all the countries of the world... Please oh please spread the wealth of all those people who earn a hard living to the laziest most pathetic human beings on this planet.

It's not necessarily simple like you think. Some people really do live in poverty, due to not being able to get a decent education, or whatever reason. Some people are looking for work, but they need jobseeker's allowance while they do it.
People should be allowed the right to eat food and live in basic accomodation should they not be in work. Any luxuries should be dependent on you being able to get your own work. It's a small price to pay rather than seeing people dying on my doorstep.

Also I wonder why some people support "giving democracy and freedom" to the people of Iraq, when they can't even take care of their own citizens.

Please oh please take all sharp edged blades and anything dangerous from all of man kind because I'm afraid of them..

Take them away from infants and children, sure. I don't know what you're getting at, I don't know many people who can cook without using sharp knives. Remember who banned sharp objects on flights, too.

Please oh please protect the rights of those who would kill children and infants...

Who? People who kill children usually goto jail for a very long time, if caught. Are you suggesting torturing them needlessly, just for sick perverted pleasure? That's not justice, and it achieves nothing.

Please oh please tax anyone who actually earns a buck up until the point that they say, "What's the point? I'm moving!!!"

Taxes are a necessary evil of society. For example, who is going to pay for your war machine? Nobody likes paying money to the government, but hey, it's either that or anarchy.

Please oh please make me a European. Preferably Spanish. Or maybe French Candian so that I too could care nothing about myself and only about what others should be giving me...

Dunno what you mean by that? Feeding into some kind of sick stereotype that Spanish are lazy?
I've been there, they do siesta, yes, but they do work hard, from 9-1, then 5-late. They just work different hours to us. I haven't seen many people claiming benefits in Spain.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Take them away from infants and children, sure. I don't know what you're getting at, I don't know many people who can cook without using sharp knives. Remember who banned sharp objects on flights, too.

Ahhh, they never did ban plastic cutlery, from experience that can do as much damage (I'm talking about stabbing, not slashing)

Taxes are a necessary evil of society. For example, who is going to pay for your war machine? Nobody likes paying money to the government, but hey, it's either that or anarchy.

You should, as an individual, choose which areas that money goes into.

 

[kirovman]

You should, as an individual, choose which areas that money goes into.

I don't think the average voter is smart enough for that.

For example if individuals decided where their taxes went, you'd get billions on road networks, and not enough for education.

 

[Link]

It's not necessarily simple like you think. Some people really do live in poverty, due to not being able to get a decent education, or whatever reason. Some people are looking for work, but they need jobseeker's allowance while they do it.
People should be allowed the right to eat food and live in basic accomodation should they not be in work. Any luxuries should be dependent on you being able to get your own work. It's a small price to pay rather than seeing people dying on my doorstep.

Also I wonder why some people support "giving democracy and freedom" to the people of Iraq, when they can't even take care of their own citizens.

So because they had a bad government in the past, we should let that continue? After all, it was a previous ruler who didn't look after the people. Install democracy and that can change.

I agree that some people need support, thats what the system was developed for. What get me is that I could quit my job today, go down the welfare office tommorow, and get more money than I currently make handed to me in exchange for fluffing a couple of interviews a week. At the tax payers expence.

Take them away from infants and children, sure. I don't know what you're getting at, I don't know many people who can cook without using sharp knives. Remember who banned sharp objects on flights, too.

The point is the knee jerk reactionism displayed by the government. Remeber dunblain? Knee jerk responce? Ban hand guns. Result? Increase in gun crime and more illegally imorted weaons.

Who? People who kill children usually goto jail for a very long time, if caught. Are you suggesting torturing them needlessly, just for sick perverted pleasure? That's not justice, and it achieves nothing.

They go to jail for a very long time, where they get free meals, shelter, TV, radio, playstation etc etc. People in prision have, on average, a better quality of life than people on welfare, again at the tax payers expence.
Prisoners should get bread, water and a blanket. Then they should be given the opportunity to work to aquire their TV's etc. They should not be given it.

Taxes are a necessary evil of society. For example, who is going to pay for your war machine? Nobody likes paying money to the government, but hey, it's either that or anarchy.

Dunno what you mean by that? Feeding into some kind of sick stereotype that Spanish are lazy?
I've been there, they do siesta, yes, but they do work hard, from 9-1, then 5-late. They just work different hours to us. I haven't seen many people claiming benefits in Spain.

Not going to argue on this, I disagree with this guys policy on Europe (As I stated above)

 

[$kelet0r]

Then run for election and see if you can change the system
democracy ya know

 

[kirovman]

So because they had a bad government in the past, we should let that continue? After all, it was a previous ruler who didn't look after the people. Install democracy and that can change.

I agree that some people need support, thats what the system was developed for. What get me is that I could quit my job today, go down the welfare office tommorow, and get more money than I currently make handed to me in exchange for fluffing a couple of interviews a week. At the tax payers expence.

What I want to know is how can they claim to care about the lives of the average Iraqi when they do not even consider the lives of their own poverty stricken citizens (not talking about the lazy ones).

I agree that minimum wage should be significantly higher than benefits, if only as an incentive to work.
And people shouldn't get extra child benefits after their 2nd or 3rd child, to prevent these people who have 10 children just to claim benefits.

 

[Bodacious]

I agree that minimum wage should be significantly higher than benefits, if only as an incentive to work.

If we raised minimum wage people would loose their jobs. That is not a good idea at all.

Employers would have to fire people to make up for the costs of paying others.

 

[Bodacious]

What point? He's bitching aimlessly about something. But there's certainly not anything that actually clarifies a point.

This is flamebait. He's directly goading people with a topic that's 45% condescendence, 45% mocking, and 10% substance. Not to mention he's painted Europe as some kind of death-loving union run by the lazy, which is fairly insulting.

Of course, you're blind to this since you seeminlgy share the same repugnant views.

Me blind? Hardly.

I bet if he were liberal and were bashing conservatism/capitalism/freedom/the troops you would give him a pat on the back.

 

[kmack]

If we raised minimum wage people would loose their jobs. That is not a good idea at all.

Employers would have to fire people to make up for the costs of paying others.

read up on David Card and Alan Krueger, before you go making ridiculous claims.

A full time minimum wage worker makes just $10,712 per year. :dozey:

nice double post too.

 

[kirovman]

If we raised minimum wage people would loose their jobs. That is not a good idea at all.

Employers would have to fire people to make up for the costs of paying others.

Not necessarily raising minimum wage, lowering benefits could be considered too. Or a combination of both.

At least getting those people on benefits for 10 years back into work would be a start. There's a lot of things someone with a 'bad back' can do.

 

[$kelet0r]

Well employment will occur if you raise the minimum wage but only if people are already below the original rate
which ideally should never happen - the value of someones labour should be worth more than what they can barely survive on
surely thats not a good idea at all

 

[Link]

kirovman - do you mean the british government? As in how can the british government claim to care about he iraqis if we have our own poverty stricken people?
If so, my answer would be that the iraqis are much worse off. All british citizens are entitled to shelter and food provided by the council covering whatever area they are in.

As for iraq, I can't remember the last time our government was an oppresive dictator ship, so I would say they need our help more than our poor people do. anyway, mixed issue, our armys are unable to help the poor over here, they are able to defend incoocent people being attacked though.

 

[kirovman]

kirovman - do you mean the british government? As in how can the british government claim to care about he iraqis if we have our own poverty stricken people?
If so, my answer would be that the iraqis are much worse off. All british citizens are entitled to shelter and food provided by the council covering whatever area they are in.

As for iraq, I can't remember the last time our government was an oppresive dictator ship, so I would say they need our help more than our poor people do. anyway, mixed issue, our armys are unable to help the poor over here, they are able to defend incoocent people being attacked though.

Talking about the US.

There's a lot less money reaching poor people in the US. The poor-rich divide is a lot narrower here in the UK.

 

[Link]

Fair point. I assumed shellback was talking about the UK, what with the pending elections etc. you may well be right about the US, and if this is the subject at hand, I will bow out, as the political situation over there has no interest for me.

 

[Bodacious]

read up on David Card and Alan Krueger, before you go making ridiculous claims.

A full time minimum wage worker makes just $10,712 per year. :dozey:

nice double post too.

I am in a micro economics class this semester, I know what I am talking about.

What I said is fact. Care to disprove me?

Don't take my work for it, take the cato institute's word for it.

Simply stated, if the government coercively raises the price of some good (such as labor) above its market value, the demand for that good will fall, and some of the supply will become "disemployed." Unfortunately, in the case of minimum wages, the disemployed goods are human beings.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa106.html

 

[$kelet0r]

In microeconomics that is a theoretical model that assumes that all along the labour supply curve there are people willing to work at various wages so that as real income rises so does the supply of labour
Now a minimum wage is almost always enforced during a period of economice growth so that the demand curve is constantly shifting outwards as market production rises
now the theoretical dead weight loss in employment is always negligible because the supply curve is a laffer curve so that any significant loss in employment would only occur at higher income rates
You must be only starting microeconomics - they simplify things incredibly so that people just know how to read the graphs

In reality, full-time employees make up only a small percentage of the total number of people earning the minimum wage

Because they are a minority does that mean that they alone should suffer the full fury of inflation by having a fixed income rate

The simple truth about the issue is that any minimum-wage rate that is forced onto the market will have only negative effects on the distribution of economic justice. Minimum-wage legislation, by its very nature, benefits some at the expense of the least experienced, least productive, and poorest workers.

What a load of crap - its often college students who are in these minimum wage jobs paying their way through college

Contrary to the claims of many members of Congress, government cannot create wealth by simply passing new laws.

This guy is nuts - governments create wealth through the multiplier effect in the money supply, direct investment in the market, maximising labour productivity through stabilising the price level, education and employee protection(health, injury etc.)

This guy's agenda is pretty damn clear and he's pretty fly with the truth as well

 

[Bodacious]

It is a beginning class. What I said is still true.

 

[$kelet0r]

in theory yes, but in the long term all inputs in the market become variable so that the supply of labour does not remain fixed and employment settles at a new equilibrium
minimum wage laws are simply a way of adjusting for inflation which is the real cause of unemployment
Consider the industrial revolution in europe as an example of the costs of no wage floors - a nations wealth suffered through grinding poverty
And surely as a right wing american you can appreciate that a tax cut is another way of tackling this issue only it creates more inflation not less thus causing more unemployment

 

[Bodacious]

in theory yes, but in the long term all inputs in the market become variable so that the supply of labour does not remain fixed and employment settles at a new equilibrium
minimum wage laws are simply a way of adjusting for inflation which is the real cause of unemployment
Consider the industrial revolution in europe as an example of the costs of no wage floors - a nations wealth suffered through grinding poverty
And surely as a right wing american you can appreciate that a tax cut is another way of tackling this issue only it creates more inflation not less thus causing more unemployment

Of course in the long term things are better, they always are better.

But the short term is what matters for people who will lose their jobs as a result.

Tax cuts causing more unemployment? I haven't studied that, but since the Bush tax cuts the unemployment rate has gone down, although not by much, and more jobs have been created than were lost because of the recession in 2001.

 

[$kelet0r]

I would argue that a few teenagers who should be still at school maximising their labour utility and thus benefiting their country losing their jobs is a sacrifice most governments are willing to make because a min wage rise is an adjustment for inflation which means proces are always rising
you could argue then that any wage agreement in a country causes unemployment which isn't strictly true its inflation that causes companies to lay off workers
surely someone at the bottom of the economic pile still deserves a rise along with everyone else

To answer the point on Bush's tax cuts - his cuts have increased consumer spending which has resultes ina massive balance of payments deficit which will cause unemployment as imports are being chosen over american goods, the us dollar is losing its spending power daily due to rising supply and inflation is rising rapidly. At the same time economic growth has stagnated and the government is in deficit meaning that there is little scope for greater direct investment.
Alan Greenspan who is super pro capitalist and a true classical economist is going mad about it and he's the last person you want to hear saying things are bad because he's usually right.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=23325
http://www.theherald.co.uk/business/37775.html
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/050421/323/fgtpa.html
http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/050421/323/fgt11.html

 

[Absinthe]

Me blind? Hardly.

I bet if he were liberal and were bashing conservatism/capitalism/freedom/the troops you would give him a pat on the back.

Directionless drivel is directionless drivel, regardless of political affiliation.

 

[CptStern]

Me blind? Hardly..

hahahahhahahhahahha

/me wipes tear from eye