Pointless Projects

[MajesticM00se]

do some of you feel it's pretty pointless starting a project without the desired team?

i mean it's all well and good having modellers and mappers not exactly hard to find or do you could learn to make a half decient model in less than one maybe two months if you set to it

but teams lacking sutible coders willy never get off the ground tbh i have looked at many mods and they all well and good look pretty but honestly where are they going?

coding ain't easily i'll admit even after years of experience it ain't easy i know people who have been coding gone 20+ years who still get trouble from time to time, but teams starting on a mod without coders is just stupidity and a waste of time they might as well dedicate their time to skinning other games or applying for modelling jobs.

i would love to start a half life 2 project but without the efficient team communication it's pointless and i wouldn't waste my time i'd rather sit here getting pissed and watching porn, ah the joys of life god i need sex anywho my point is i've seen about 4 maybe 5 projects that look like they are actually going somewhere out of the what 100 projects out there?

but they have dedicated teams which have direction and structure

*btw i know my spelling and grammer is teh sux

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Solution: Learn coding yourself. It's what I did, and now I've almost got something playable. Become self-sufficient.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[MajesticM00se]

i bet most of the mods released are just gonna be the initial engine with a pretty skin slapped on which defies it as being a mod

you really think it's that easy for some people to just teach them selves

 

[el ska boss]

It's a bad idea to start a mod without a team. The team is the group of individuals that actually creates the mod, so without the team all that exists is an idea (and without a good idea there is no team).
Angry Lawyer has the right idea, it's hard to find people to rely on over the internet. The ideal scenario is to be completely self sufficient though as you suggested it's hard for people to teach themselves. This is true, but with persistance it's quite possible to learn everything you need to know.

My advice to you is to think about everything thoroughly and come up with a plan. Before starting your project you must come up with an idea or a focus for your final outcome (hopefully it's creative and interesting, that's how you attract teammates and eventually players). Then decide what you need to learn how to do or who to recruit, and write them down in order of priority. Take everything one step at a time, It's really not as bad as you might think.

 

[embers.]

what i did was find a coder by joining communities that arent just game hubs and becoming friends with them. we then went from there to where we are today

 

[Angry Lawyer]

The biggest problem these days is apathy. People want to make mods, but they don't want to put in any effort. Back in the early days of modding, a team would be one or two people, one of which being a coder, and they'd get it done because they wanted it done. These day's it's all "Conceptualisers", "CEOs", "Mod Presidents", and "Ideas men" that are leading, and they don't want to actually get their hands dirty.

If you're not willing to delve into coding to make your mod work, what makes you think anybody else would want to code for it?

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Calimaw]

Well, Im going to be honest with you, I don't have a coder, but considering the concept started 2 weeks ago, I'm not worried, in addition there's alot of work to be done before you get a coder, you need to know what you're going to be doing. And that's what Im documenting for the coder.

Most people start a mod team because they want to create something, I started what I am doing because I want to use it as an entry portfolio, and test my own abilities as a leader.

That differance between myself and others is that not only do I want to create a mod, but I want to use it as a tool to gain access into the development careers, which is why I am paying an adept coder and working with him under a mutual contract.

The guy is a pro, and I can handle paying some one for their hard work.

 

[MonkOnFire]

If you're not willing to delve into coding to make your mod work, what makes you think anybody else would want to code for it?

-Angry Lawyer

I don't think that's very fair at all. I'm leader of my mod but coding is not my thing. Yet I'm the lead 3D artist, and when I say that I don't mean I 'oversee' the modelling, but I actually model a lot.

And yes, I was able to recruit a very professional programmer who is very enthusiastic about the mod.

I believe that it doesn't matter if the leader is not a coder, but they must be able to contribute to the mod quite a lot.

 

[Calimaw]

I'll agree with Lawyer that it is a very good idea to be a leader with the ability to code, but I will agree with MonkOnFire that you don't need to code.

It all comes down to the DRIVE of the leader.

A leader is some one who works, as well as directs, some one who is organized.

I think the MOST important thing of being a leader is the concept lay-out, and the ability to project his visions to members.

Every person in the mod team is important and essential.

But what seperates the leader is usually his compassion and ambition.

It's much like running a small buisiness.

 

[Ennui]

I agree completely with what Calimaw said. My modification started out as just me, doing design work, but it's now got ten members, including a coder, and we're working hard.

being a leader is enough work in itself without coding too, and I also handle level design (as in, I'm developing a map along with a few other people) and much of the game design.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Well, you're right, if you're not prepared to code, you've gotta be really good at conveying your ideas. I've seen too many design docs that simply say "round based, realism. List of guns:"

And that's about it. I wasn't picking out any of you guys in my rather generalized comment, but the general state of modding these days. I think you'll find you're probably exceptions to my rule.

Although, it wouldn't hurt you guys to learn a bit of C++

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Ennui]

You're right mate. I am a designer, and I realize how detailed you have to be - you don't say "Code this gun (its gonna poon lawls)", you have to give the exact specifics about it and how you think it should be done - you have to understand the code and how the coder has to go about doing things.

 

[MajesticM00se]

Well, you're right, if you're not prepared to code, you've gotta be really good at conveying your ideas. I've seen too many design docs that simply say "round based, realism. List of guns:"

And that's about it. I wasn't picking out any of you guys in my rather generalized comment, but the general state of modding these days. I think you'll find you're probably exceptions to my rule.

Although, it wouldn't hurt you guys to learn a bit of C++

-Angry Lawyer

Exactly i see countless websites of half life 2 mods with the pictures of models but no in shot games (apart from the od few), too many people get over excited by a model

example....

look i've got my own super ultra cool half life 2 mod now

It's the best thing since sliced bread!

n btw i am a CPP coder

 

[Calimaw]

Well, there are points to this, but before you can program certain aspects of the game, you need a model some times.

To get the feel of it, but for the most part you're right.

Models look neat in still shots, but walking around as a giant lizzard chicken with an awp trying to rescue hostages doesnt seem very satasfying.

 

[kronos2]

The way I see it, anyone with a great idea has a good chance of succeeding, even if they don't have any relevant skills. If you take a look at a majority of mods that have a difficult time finding coders, most of them are probably based on an idea that's been done to death, isn't fun, or is too ambitious. Of course, there are exceptions; for example, I think BRAWL has great potential, and would love to see it to fruition. The fact remains though that people simply aren't interested in working for those games because it just isn't unique, and not necessarily because the lead has no skills etc.

My point? I guess I'm in the opinion that truly great ideas will do the recruiting themselves (if promoted correctly), so it isn't pointless per se to start a mod without a definite team. Just make sure that your idea truly is original and well thought out, and that you can promote it in such a way that will emphasize those points.