(political) should drugs be legal?

should drugs be re-legalized?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 23.8%
  • No

    Votes: 7 16.7%
  • Under certain circumstances

    Votes: 6 14.3%
  • Only certain drugs

    Votes: 19 45.2%
  • Other (please post)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    42
W

Wraith

Guest
The first American anti-drug law was an 1875 San Francisco ordinance which outlawed the smoking of opium in opium dens. It was passed because of the fear that Chinese men were luring white women to their "ruin" in opium dens. "Ruin" was defined as associating with Chinese men. It was followed by other similar laws, including Federal laws in which trafficking in opium was forbidden to anyone of Chinese origin, and restrictions on the importation of smoking opium. The laws did not have anything really to do with the importation of opium as a drug, because the importation and use of opium in other forms -- such as in the common medication laudunum -- were not affected. The laws were directed at smoking opium because it was perceived that the smoking of opium was a peculiarly Chinese custom. In short, it was a way of legally targeting the Chinese.

Cocaine was outlawed because of fears that superhuman "Negro Cocaine Fiends" or "Cocainized ******s" (actual terms used by newspapers in the early 1900's) take large amounts of cocaine which would make them go on a violent sexual rampage and rape white women. There is little evidence that any black men actually did this, if only because it would have been certain death. The United States set a record in 1905 with 105 recorded lynchings of black men. At the same time, police nationwide switched from .32 caliber pistols to .38 caliber pistols because it was believed that the superhuman "Negro Cocaine Fiend" could not be killed with the smaller gun.

Dr. Hamilton Wright is sometimes referred to as the "Father of American Drug Laws". Dr. Wright was the Opium Commissioner at the time and had previously become famous because he had "scientifically proved" that beri-beri was a communicable disease. Beri-beri is a vitamin deficiency.

The Harrison Act which "outlawed" these drugs was, on its face, a simple licensing law which simply required sellers to get a license if they were going to handle the opiates and cocaine. As the Consumers Union Report on Licit and Illicit Drugs has said, it is doubtful that very many members of Congress would have thought that they were passing what would later be regarded as a general drug prohibition. The law even contained a provision that nothing in the law would prohibit doctors from prescribing these drugs in the legitimate practice of medicine.

In fact, even the people who wrote the Harrison Act and the Marijuana Tax Act in 1937 agreed that a general prohibition on what people could put into their own bodies was plainly an unconstitutional infringement on personal liberties.

================================

Tobacco kills about 390,000.
Alcohol kills about 80,000.
Sidestream smoke from tobacco kills about 50,000.
Cocaine kills about 2,200.
Heroin kills about 2,000.
Aspirin kills about 2,000.
Marijuana kills 0. There has never been a recorded death due to marijuana at any time in US history.
All illegal drugs combined kill about 4,500 people per year, or about one percent of the number killed by alcohol and tobacco. Tobacco kills more people each year than all of the people killed by all of the illegal drugs in the last century.


=================================

Code:
   Year                `89      `90      `91      `92      `93      `94
   ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 1 Stolen              148      154      160      168      176      184
 2 Incarceration        73       80       88       96      104      112
 3 Lost taxes           41       43       45       47       49       51
 4 Construction         20       21       23       25       25       25
 5 Federal War           7       10       12       13       20       25
 6 Extra Welfare        13       14       15       16       17       18
 7 Harrassment          10       11       12       13       14       15
   ---------------------------------------------------------------------
   Totals              312      333      355      378      405      430

Reagan's 8 years: $1.860 Trillion Bush's 4 years: $1.378 Trillion

Notes


Value of goods stolen. These goods are later replaced at additional cost by owner or insurance.
Total for additional police, judges, courtrooms, prosecutors, court costs, maintenance of jails, guards, probation personnel, and the entire police, justice and prison system required to deal with the WoD.
Income taxes associated with perpetrators' lost wages.
Construction of new jail and other facilities to deal with burgeoning case load.
Federal WoD consists of arming and paying interdiction forces along with international efforts to stem flow of drugs.
Extra welfare needed to support families of drug offenders while they are in prison.
Developed from information supplied by "Save Our Liberties" of Sunnyvale CA (415) 964-3655. 1994 figures are projections.
Ohter costs: Cost of lives lost to drug associated crime, plus productivity and taxes associated with those lives. Does "lost taxes" include lost sales taxes from supposed legal prices of drugs?


(all of this information is from http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm, as far as i know it is an unbiased source)

these are some facts ^^ this is my opinion:

i believe drugs should be legalized. it costs america a lot of money to get rid of the drugs, and a lot more to house all the drug offenders in prison, for something they decided to do to themselves. the gangs and columbian cartels that smuggle these drugs will become useless once you can buy the drugs at the grocery store. this will lower gang activity, deaths, and the money that they are taking from the american economy. the only drawback is that some people will die from the drugs, but it is your decision and like anything its fine in moderation. people are allowed to order pizza but once you start eating 2 pizzas a day your heart explodes.

please take a look at this link for information on what my party believes http://www.lp.org/issues/relegalize.html

here is an excerpt:

"It's time to re-legalize drugs and let people take responsibility for themselves. Drug abuse is a tragedy and a sickness. Criminal laws only drive the problem underground and put money in the pockets of the criminal class. With drugs legal, compassionate people could do more to educate and rehabilitate drug users who seek help. Drugs should be legal. Individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to put in their bodies, so long as they take responsibility for their actions."


thanks and i would like to hear your opinions
 
Legalizing drugs is a step in the wrong direction, we should be moving to get rid of things like tobacco and alcohol.
 
Legalizing marijauna wouldn't stop the illegal sale of it either, it will still happen just at a much much lower price, lower then the legal marijauna..
 
Marijuana should be legal and hard drugs like cocaine should be provided to junkies to stop them from stealing to get the money for it.

I can make a long story as to why, but what I said above is simply the right thing.

Legalizing drugs is a step in the wrong direction, we should be moving to get rid of things like tobacco and alcohol.

Been there, done that, didn't work. Prohibition just stimulates criminality.
 
Foxtrot said:
Legalizing marijauna wouldn't stop the illegal sale of it either, it will still happen just at a much much lower price, lower then the legal marijauna..

that's not entirely true ..just look at the illegal tobacco trade ..all the government has to do is lower the cost and that pretty much dries up the illegal stuff for the time being (worked well here when tobacco dropped by more than $1.00). The convience factor will work it's way in over the long run
 
Foxtrot said:
Legalizing marijauna wouldn't stop the illegal sale of it either, it will still happen just at a much much lower price, lower then the legal marijauna..


during prohibition bootlegging of alcohol was a huge industry, now that its legal almost no one makes alcoholic beverages (and the ones that do, do it as a hobby as far as i know)
 
Foxtrot said:
Legalizing drugs is a step in the wrong direction, we should be moving to get rid of things like tobacco and alcohol.
And why is that? Making a drug illegal just brings more attention to it. Plus its people's responsiblity to do whatever they hell they want to with their body, if you do so much coke your heart explodes well then thats exactly what you deserve.

Id like to add that there are some drugs that are totally legal yet more powerful than the ones illegal. For example, Salvia divinorum is said to be one of the most powerful hullucigenics in the world. Two hits of it is like taking 5 grams of shrooms; yet shrooms are still illegal and salvia is legal. Doesnt really make alot of sense.
 
mchammer75040 said:
Plus its people's responsiblity to do whatever they hell they want to with their body, if you do so much coke your heart explodes well then thats exactly what you deserve.

Wraith said:
people are allowed to order pizza but once you start eating 2 pizzas a day your heart explodes.

just wanted to point out my analogy because my first post up there was huge and im sure most people didnt read through it (but it IS interesting if you get the chance to check it out)
 
People can do what they want with their bodies, aslong as they dont do it near me (i cant stand breathing in someone else's cigarette smoke), then i dont care.
 
Legalize it, but REGULATE it and the situation might improve
 
PvtRyan said:
Marijuana should be legal and hard drugs like cocaine should be provided to junkies to stop them from stealing to get the money for it.

I can make a long story as to why, but what I said above is simply the right thing.



Been there, done that, didn't work. Prohibition just stimulates criminality.
I didn't say they should be illegal, I am just saying they shouldn't be used. Making marijauna legal would be like saying it is ok to use.
 
I say, either legalise "soft" drugs like marijuana, or make tobacco and alcohol illegal. It makes little sense otherwise.
 
Cannabis shouldent be legal ( i used to be pro cannabis), then i got badly hooked. 7 grams of hash everyday for 5 years ... and i´ll tell ya, its really, really hard to stop (not 4 the physical effetcs, the shakes and cold sweats stop after 2 weeks, but the mental part..... i recently stopped thinking 20 times a day about just sitting in the dark puffing away, wanting to skip my current life at a seconds notice...i havent smoked for 5 years, my god how i miss that).

Alcohol, well i dont drink, never liked it.

"Legal" Morphine products ........ well if it were legal..hehehe i would be walking around with a drop in my arm, being happy :cheese:
 
No drugs, drugs are evil. All they do is fry neurons; people get stupider and do stupider things.
 
Statistics mean nothing. The only reason ONLY 2000 people have died from heroin and 2000 from cocaine is because the average joe cant go to the local Wal Mart and pick them up. Think of how many would die if it were legalized. The world would be pretty hellish.

Marijuana I have mixed reactions on. It may not have killed folks, but it sure has ruined some. Adding it to the list of legalized drugs would just add the list another addicting substance folks can combine with alcohol and cigarettes. Already this world has a problem with Alcoholism and smoking, why add to it?

I personally don't smoke. I see no reason to. I have drank before, but never really gotten fighting drunk. I may drink once every like couple of months but it isnt something I look forward to every weekend or anything. Pretty lame if you do if you ask me.
 
I have a glass of red wine with my meals, thats all. Helps cut the grease so it doesnt clog up my arteries.
 
DoctorGordon said:
No drugs, drugs are evil. All they do is fry neurons; people get stupider and do stupider things.


DoctorGordon said:
I have a glass of red wine with my meals, thats all. Helps cut the grease so it doesnt clog up my arteries.


??????
 
good post Wraith.




CptStern said:
marijuana should be de-criminalized



agreed.

de-criminalising it won't have much of an affect on regular users, except they can be less discreet about it. but the main reason for me is for medicinal purposes. i can go out and get something whenever i want and i can accept the consequences of being caught carrying it etc, but a sick person is breaking the law if they take something that makes them feel better. to me, that sounds fundamentally wrong.

now i'm not trying to take you on a guilt trip or anything, but it does seem to make sense when you think about it. someone with arthritis can have a few hours of pain free existence by eating a marajuana brownie, or taking a pill. marajuana isn't always smoked.

designer drugs, however, need to be watched very closely. i'm unsure about whether de-criminalising them will worthwhile right now. even though a small percentage have a bad reaction to stuff like ecstasy or GHB, it's enough to cast doubt over it's safety.
 
Dedalus said:
good post Wraith.








agreed.

de-criminalising it won't have much of an affect on regular users, except they can be less discreet about it. but the main reason for me is for medicinal purposes. i can go out and get something whenever i want and i can accept the consequences of being caught carrying it etc, but a sick person is breaking the law if they take something that makes them feel better. to me, that sounds fundamentally wrong.

now i'm not trying to take you on a guilt trip or anything, but it does seem to make sense when you think about it. someone with arthritis can have a few hours of pain free existence by eating a marajuana brownie, or taking a pill. marajuana isn't always smoked.

designer drugs, however, need to be watched very closely. i'm unsure about whether de-criminalising them will do any good. even though a small percentage have a bad reaction to stuff like ecstasy or GHB, it's enough to cast doubt over it's safety.
There are legal drugs to use too...
 
Foxtrot said:
There are legal drugs to use too...


alcohol and tabacco are the worst drugs in my opinion.

you can have a laugh with alcohol, but it has it's downsides both physically and socially.

and tabacco? it's just addictive, and has a plethora of negative affects both on the user and those around them.
 
foxtrot said:
There are legal drugs to use too...


yes but they all have side effects ..as a former teacher of mentally handicapped students I can attest that toxicity is a big danger ..that's when a person has been taking medicinal drugs for such a long period that their body runs the risk of turning it into a toxin and killing them ..or more likely causing toxic shock to the system ..trust me medicinal drugs are far worse than any illegal drug ..they're just highly controlled as not to cause fatalities
 
Dedalus said:
alcohol and tabacco are the worst drugs in my opinion.

you can have a laugh with alcohol, but it has it's downsides both physically and socially.

and tabacco? it's just addictive, and has a plethora of negative affects both on the user and those around them.
I agree with you, both terrible drugs and destroyed my family.
 
If the drug is often lethal to people in reasonable quantities (ie not taking excessive amounts) then it should be illegal.

If the drug is severely addictive and its effects will prevent you from doing anything beneficial for society (ie normal work) then it should be illegal.

If taking the drug will have negative impacts on those around you (ie second hand smoke) then it should be illegal.

Otherwise they should be legal as long as they are regulated carefully and/or used in medicine.
 
The Mullinator said:
If the drug is often lethal to people in reasonable quantities (ie not taking excessive amounts) then it should be illegal.

If the drug is severely addictive and its effects will prevent you from doing anything beneficial for society (ie normal work) then it should be illegal.

If taking the drug will have negative impacts on those around you (ie second hand smoke) then it should be illegal.

Otherwise they should be legal as long as they are regulated carefully and/or used in medicine.

Agreed.

As for regulating them carefully, how abut a law that they can't be used outside your home?
Like the law against public drunkeness.
Get drunk in your house, and injure yourself. No driving or so-on.
 
Mechagodzilla said:
As for regulating them carefully, how abut a law that they can't be used outside your home?
Like the law against public drunkeness.
Get drunk in your house, and injure yourself. No driving or so-on.
Ya thats what I was thinking for regulations as well. An age limit would also be needed.
 
well, it's not like pot smokers go out to restaurants and pubs and smoke in front of them in plain view. that'd be dumb. so the point about second hand smoke is a null one i'm afraid. anyone within sniffing distance of the second hand smoke has probably consented to being there, and is probably smoking themselves. although that does bring about the issue of being responsible when using it.

i've never known anyone to smoke in what's regarded as a 'public place'. it's all about teaching responsible usage. and yeah, part of that comes down to an age limit.

being irresponsible is what gives people a bad impression of drugs. for example, someone smoking a joint in university halls of residence with their door open so the smoke can waft into other areas where people might not want to inhale the smoke etc. that's a case of being irresponsible.
 
Dedalus said:
well, it's not like pot smokers go out to restaurants and pubs and smoke in front of them in plain view. that'd be dumb. so the point about second hand smoke is a null one i'm afraid. anyone within sniffing distance of the second hand smoke has probably consented to being there, and is probably smoking themselves. although that does bring about the issue of being responsible when using it.

i've never known anyone to smoke in what's regarded as a 'public place'. it's all about teaching responsible usage. and yeah, part of that comes down to an age limit.

being irresponsible is what gives people a bad impression of drugs. for example, someone smoking a joint in university halls of residence with their door open so the smoke can waft into other areas where people might not want to inhale the smoke etc. that's a case of being irresponsible.
For second hand smoke I was thinking more along the lines of parents smoking at home giving their kids second hand smoke. That often happens.
 
The Mullinator said:
For second hand smoke I was thinking more along the lines of parents smoking at home giving their kids second hand smoke. That often happens.



hmm, yeah that's irresponsible use.

i dunno how you could regulate that though, as there are many parents who'll happily smoke cigarettes while their kids are in the same room etc. just have to educate people i guess.
 
I will say now, that I have been drunk in the past but I have since decided to cut down. I won't say drugs are wrong, but I will say the amount which people wish to take, is. For instance, extremely concentrated drugs like cocaine and ecstasy are just too much. Cocaine, in its natural plant form can be quite useful for treating things such as mountain sickness(If you just eat it as it is(I think its cocaine :O)). We should look at these drugs for their beneficial purposes, not their "Make me high" factor.

I'm rather tired at the moment, so that probably didn't come across as...articulated, as I would have hoped :p But you know what I meant.
 
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