Proving the "Hate the popular" Theory.

[DimitriPopov]

Well it has come to my attention a long time ago that when introduced to a large number of people a product will become noticably more criticised the longer its around and the more popular it becomes. The easiest case is Music.

Many many times Ive seen bands that sound almost identical in all of their CDs , meaning no drastic sound in change and I hear SOOO many people say 'omfgz they are teh selloutz' 'what happened' , and I have to say it gets friggin old.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/ref=dp_sr_00/102-9557171-6680927

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dmusic%26field-keywords%3DStaind%26store-name%3Dmusic/102-9557171-6680927

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dmusic%26field-keywords%3DLinkin%252520Park%26store-name%3Dmusic/102-9557171-6680927

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dmusic%26field-keywords%3DDeftones%26store-name%3Dmusic/102-9557171-6680927


Well attempt to prove it with 4 of my favorite bands. I was recently searching through the Deftones amazon reviews because I am looking to buy their 2 older CDs.

So just out of curiosity I decided to compare the newest CD to the older CDs (95 and 97). For the newer CD there is MUCH more scathing critizism , stuff like "OMG THIS SUX" or "WHAT HAPPENED" "YOUVE GOT TO BE JOKING" , with ratings of 0 stars.

Now this CD doesnt sound drastically different or lack anything the older CDs have , but it has one different feature , popularity. The band is known now , its not just a small group of fans. And as such it becomes "Cool" to critisize or slam something that is popular. It kindof equates to the punk fad of wearing something outragously stupid just because other people dont.

This scene can be repeated for all 4 of the bands and I believe any popular band. As Anything becomes more popular , it becomes cooler to hate. This is a VERY annoying trend and thus my over-researched and analyzed report , now if only I could do this for school!! Comments and thoughts go below

 

[Xtasy0]

yeah, heres pretty much my feelings on people who are like that. (as quoted from another forum)

Originally posted by LARM
If you're still using the term 'sellout after the age of 16 you should put a bullet in your skull.

Originally posted by finchrule
why

Originally posted by impunity


because its something people <16 say cause they think it makes them cool, "oh they're selling out, i dont listen to them anymore", lame.

I met a boy wearing Vans, 501s, and a
Dope Beastie t, nipple rings, and
New tattoos that claimed that he
Was OGT,
From '92,
The first EP.

And in between
Sips of Coke
He told me that
He thought
We were sellin' out,
Layin' down,
Suckin' up
To the man.

Well now I've got some
A-dvice for you, little buddy.
Before you point the finger
You should know that
I'm the man,

And if I'm the man,

Then you're the man, and
He's the man as well so you can
Point that ****in' finger up your ass.

All you know about me is what I've sold you,
Dumb ****.
I sold out long before you ever heard my name.

I sold my soul to make a record,
Dip shit,
And you bought one.

All you read and
Wear or see and
Hear on TV
Is a product
Begging for your
Fatass dirty
Dollar

So...Shut up and

Buy my new record
Send more money
**** you, buddy.

now kindly STFU.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

well im not gonna pretend to know why pple say stuff like "omfg this band is teh suck now"

everyone has their reasons.. maybe some pple feel that once a band gets too popular, the band starts compromising its ideals/values and their work because some big music company exec doesn't like the image being portrayed, or simply wants to a different route. *shrug* maybe thats why pple yell "sellout" i dunno

Originally posted by DimitriPopov Now this CD doesnt sound drastically different or lack anything the older CDs have

well i have one theory for u.. and this was used when someone explained to me why NiN (my fav band btw) no longer appealed to them..

the line of thinking was along the lines of.. "back then i was young, so my taste of music was a certain way.. but i have grown out of it and the band is still sticking to the same sound as way back then"

that was a conversation i had with someone i used to work with.. he does not like NiN as much as he used to *shrug* i don't know why and really it doesn't matter.

i guess some pple think that as they grow up.. and change, they expect a band to as well.. at some level

then again what Xtasy0 has posted is very true as well..

 

[burnzie]

Assholes and the internet go hand in hand im afraid

 

[Kyle2]

i'm sorry but the deftones do suck.

it's not the fact that they became less liked when they became popular. it's the fact that when they were first introduced let's say 1 out of 5 people liked them and only 500 people knew about them. well that's 100 people and with only 500 people knowing about them the 400 people who hate them aren't gonna be posting random crap everywhere saying deftones suck when nobody knows who they are. but the 100 people who do like them will stick together and be all like "omg deftones rocks, look at this we've got 100 people who like deftones right here, deftones are the kickass shit." people will be all like "who are the deftones?" but nobody will know so no one can really say anything good or bad about them. so people are curious and start listening to their music and all of a sudden they're known and become popular. now once they get popular 1 out of 5 people will still like them except now that instead of there only being 500 people, it'll be 50,000 people. now out of that 50,000 you have 10,000 people who like them and 40,000 people who don't. you're gonna be hearing random crap from those 40,000 people a lot more often because now you've got assholes with nothing better to do and people always asking about the deftones so naturally you'll have the 40,000 people say they suck a whole lot more than you have to 10,000 people say they kick ass.

 

[staddydaddy]

These types of threads are always so popular.....I HATE THEM!!


/joking

 

[Bad^Hat]

Deftones rule, all of their albums are great!!! They didn't sell-out at any stage, just a bit when they let them make the White Pony added track CD, Back to School is shite. Other than that, rock on!!!!

 

[Bad^Hat]

Originally posted by Kyle2
i'm sorry but the deftones do suck.

it's not the fact that they became less liked when they became popular. it's the fact that when they were first introduced let's say 1 out of 5 people liked them and only 500 people knew about them. well that's 100 people and with only 500 people knowing about them the 400 people who hate them aren't gonna be posting random crap everywhere saying deftones suck when nobody knows who they are. but the 100 people who do like them will stick together and be all like "omg deftones rocks, look at this we've got 100 people who like deftones right here, deftones are the kickass shit." people will be all like "who are the deftones?" but nobody will know so no one can really say anything good or bad about them. so people are curious and start listening to their music and all of a sudden they're known and become popular. now once they get popular 1 out of 5 people will still like them except now that instead of there only being 500 people, it'll be 50,000 people. now out of that 50,000 you have 10,000 people who like them and 40,000 people who don't. you're gonna be hearing random crap from those 40,000 people a lot more often because now you've got assholes with nothing better to do and people always asking about the deftones so naturally you'll have the 40,000 people say they suck a whole lot more than you have to 10,000 people say they kick ass.

You sir, are talking out your ass

I'm not gonna say that's completely untrue but honestly, you could say the same thing for alot of bands out there! Maybe a little less exaggerated tho, pretty much all bands would have atleast a 50/50 fanbase, and if people don't like the band, and they have any sense, they just won't buy the damn cd, so statistically they don't count

Also based on your theory, there wouldn't be enough people in the world to facilitate all those Britney Spears fans out there

 

[Junkenstein]

Valid point, but the new Deftones stuff IS pretty poor.

As for Linkin Park and Stained, they've never been anything but putrifying poo.

 

[MultiVaC]

I agree 100%. The way I see it, these 'fans' come in 2 forms: The ones who will love anything that is popular, and the ones who will hate anything that is popular. It seems that people don't listen to music because they like it anymore, they listen to what they think will make them seem 'cool'.

 

[Alzxul]

Well personally I think Deftones are great, even though I don't really follow, just hear their songs now and again and they sound very good.
Personally I don't these bands 'sell out' (in my opinion), but I just lose interest with them for a different reason. Take Good Charlotte for example. When I heard their first song I thought it was great, not that many people had heard it for some reason. With their second song lots more people had heard it, and with their third everyone in the universe was listening to them. They became less of 'my' band and more of everyone else's. I think it's important for bands not evolve too quickly (unless they are actually skillful musicians, e.g. The Darkness! ), because then they lose that original fanbase.
One of the bands I think is incredibly underrated is Muse. They make some amazing songs and have a better live show than their studio album. They really bring something to the concert. However their new album 'Absolution' got to Number 1 on the UK Album charts so I guess it's not really the same deal with Deftones.
Well if loads of people say '0mG suixx0rZ s3ll out!!!11!!one!!eone' then screw them (if it's a band you like ), it's your band!

 

[Warbie]

I dopn't agree, Offspring are a good example.

They used to be a cool band but are now complete shite :/ they definately sold out (i'm 25 btw)

 

[Brian Damage]

Tall Poppy Syndrome?

 

[DimitriPopov]

Originally posted by Junkenstein
Valid point, but the new Deftones stuff IS pretty poor.

As for Linkin Park and Stained, they've never been anything but putrifying poo.

Teh infected appears.


Ill post more after school..

 

[N0N1337H41]

While I don't use the term "sell out" very often at all, actually i think it was years ago that I actually said it to someone in conversation, there is one band that comes to mind everytime I hear the word. This band is Limp Bizkit. 3 Dollar Bill Y'all was such a good album in its time, and it had an original sound (for the time). Then with Significant Other the sound became much more "overly produced", especially with Fred Durst trying to rap/sing on almost every track (IMO he can't rap or sing very well at all). But I still liked the sound and respected them for going in a new direction. But then with CSATHFW (i'm not spelling all of that out) I realized what this new direction was, it was the direction that Fred though would sell best. He is not dumb, there is a reason that he helps run his recording label. He knows what sells and what doesn't. He can catch onto a trend just long enough to exploit it and then drop it like it's trash. I still respect him for the fact that he is so savvy when it comes to this for of buisness, but if there were ever a band that I would consider putting under the category of "Sell Out", it would be Limp Bizkit.

So, I think that many bands who are stamped with label of sell out are actually just trying a new direction with their music and then they get backlash from people who were fans back when the band was burning their own cds and selling them for $5 at frat parties. I've never heard NIN called a sell out band before...... I believe if I did, I might go into a rage. And if you listen to Pretty Hate Machine and The Fragile back to back, you will probably find that you can tell it's the same artist, but Trent's sound has matured so much. Not to mention the fact that he is always way ahead of his time. Take Broken for instance; I let a good friend listen to the whole album and then asked him when he thought it was put out, and he guessed around 2000 (the album came out in 1992 for those who don't know). But it's not that my friend doesn't know anything about music, it's that the electronic sounds mixed with the metal guitars sound very much like some modern popular rock.

I know that I've strayed off the topic, sorry about that. I do agree that some people will always hate whats popular, no matter how good the music is. I've actually been told that I'm like this because I can't stand to listen to the radio. I'm sorry if I don't like hip-hop. When the artist tells you IN THE F**KING SONG that he's in it for the money and women then it might be time to think for yourself and realize that maybe artistic expression isn't something this guy thinks a lot about! I do love Outkast. They bring something very original to the table with every album. I don't just hate whats popular because it's popular. I hate shit that takes very little talent to produce in the first place. I could make at least half the beats you hear on the radio on just my computer (Reason 2.5 is my weapon of choice for those in-the-know) with a minimal amount of effort when compared to what real artists put into their music. I've gone on long enough. Sorry for any spelling errors.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Hehe, some Hip Hop is good.... like Mark B and Blade (they teamed up with Grant from Feeder for a truely awesome sound )

Anyway.... I think that bands should think about what they are doing... and don't do anything that compromises their values e.g. Rage Against The Machine... and do what they actually feel like playing.... not what sells nessesarily

 

[mrchimp]

Well i don't have to worry about the music I listen to getting popular.

 

[ComradeBadger]

Why? Is it that bad?

 

[qckbeam]

well said N0N1337H41, I'm the same way as you. I can't stand to listen to the radio anymore because the popular music is played over it, and I just feel that that music is trash, garbage. There's nothing artistic or emotional about most popular music today (notice I said most). That's why I hate most of it, not because it is popular, but because it's uninspired trash.

 

[mrchimp]

not many people I know like Disturbed or Rammstien (There popular in Germany though)or One minute silence who have now split up, on the other hand I listen to Linkin Park and Tenacious D who are popular.

 

[CheapAssStrat]

The first link doesn't work, what band is it?

 

[DimitriPopov]

Originally posted by CheapAssStrat
The first link doesn't work, what band is it?

Happened on another forum too , Limp Bizkit (And to clairify I like the latest CD and their first CD)

 

[Bad^Hat]

Originally posted by mrchimp
not many people I know like Disturbed or Rammstien (There popular in Germany though)or One minute silence who have now split up, on the other hand I listen to Linkin Park and Tenacious D who are popular.

Haha, Disturbed and Rammstein are incredibly popular nowadays Atleast where I live.

 

[dfc05]

Originally posted by qckbeam
I can't stand to listen to the radio anymore because the popular music is played over it, and I just feel that that music is trash, garbage. There's nothing artistic or emotional about most popular music today (notice I said most). That's why I hate most of it, not because it is popular, but because it's uninspired trash.

Hmm, I agree with you if you're talking about pop music as in nsync, backstreet boys, etc. I don't like to listen to music when the artist doesn't write it themselves--if they're not writing it, then they're putting next to nothing into it besides their voice and their popular image or whatever. Then the song isn't theirs--if they're just singing it and not writing it, then it's just floating out there and it belongs to them as much as it does to, say, the people on american idol. They're sticking a nice voice into a song that's not theirs.
Now, if a band writes a song and makes a big emotional contribution to it and sticks with their music through everything, then it doesn't matter whether it becomes popular or not--it's their song, and I wouldn't say they were "selling out" whether I liked the song or not.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Yeah I agree with Dimitri 100%. The problem is, though, that like you said all of the CD's are in fact very similar and people feel that they are paying for the same stuff over and over again.

 

[DimitriPopov]

I also cant stand people who feel all current music is 'uninspired trash' this is basically following the same bandwagon as the people under the topic. It has just as much emotion as any old music , its about the same topics , its just a person wanting to be more or less 'punk'.

I didnt bring up Pink Floyds 'inspiration' for 11 minute songs where only 3 minutes are good listening. Well now I brought it up.

 

[LoneDeranger]

Well anything that's on MTV is probably 'uninspired trash' I haven't watched in a year or so, I admit, so I can't really say for sure. But probably nothing changed since then.

 

[MultiVaC]

Originally posted by DimitriPopov
I also cant stand people who feel all current music is 'uninspired trash' this is basically following the same bandwagon as the people under the topic. It has just as much emotion as any old music , its about the same topics , its just a person wanting to be more or less 'punk'.

Yes, that's sometimes true. The only new music that I think is trash are those gangsta rap "I gots da money and da gold plated teeth and I'm da cool cuz I gots a car so low dat it gets caught on dem speed bumps" songs. I don't like any rap, but I can at least respect the songs where the lyrics have meaning.

 

[qckbeam]

I never said all current music was unispired trash, just most of it. Seriously, most new rap I have heard is trash (not all). Pop and hip-hop are for the most part crap (for the most part). Not all current music is uninpired trash Dimitri, some of it is really great stuff. I just feel that as time goes on, music is becoming less and less an artform, and more and more a buisness. It seems to me that most popular musicians forget about making good music and instead focus on keeping up their image so they can become some sort of god in the public eye and sell more records. When music becomes the muscians 2nd priority, replaced by fame and wealth, it becomes empty words sung to the same old tune. Nothing more.

 

[DimitriPopov]

Matter of factly If I were able to get a record contract , id sell out immidiately.

Lets see 35 million or 'not selling out'... hmmm.. lol

I agree with you , alot of Rap artists dont seem to put much creativity in , but Im not really a rap afficianado so I cant say for sure. I do like Tupac though , songs like changes. Some rock is like that too, Good Charolette is decent but songs with lyrics like 'girls dont like boys girls like cars and money' however true (it is) does not make good music , the way they say it is too childish. At the same time a majority of self written music has alot of meaning just as much as any old artist I listen to. (Linkin Park, Staind , definetly Deftones and even some Limp Bizkit)

 

[N0N1337H41]

I don't think that most modern music is uninspired trash, because there are some very talented groups out there right now putting everything they have into their music. And most of these bands are bands that you will most likely never hear on the radio. I think that most popular music is trash. When I say popular music, I mean mainstream popular. Like the music you hear on most radio stations, or most of the time on MTV. Think about this for a minute: do you really think that if any of the most popular names in music (i.e. Britney, Christina, Justin Timberlake, etc.) were to gain 300 pounds and look all greasy and nasty on stage that they would still be selling as many albums? I've thought about this many times and i've come to the obvious conclusion that, no, they wouldn't be selling as many albums. As a matter of fact, they probably wouldn't even go gold. We are sold images, not art. Art is like Image's ugly sister that no one really gives a shit about anymore. These people are called artists, which makes me sick. Even rock bands are starting to do it. It all started as anti-image, you know, wearing black and making yourself looked messed up all of the time. That's an image that was really hard to sell, but then it became "the thing to do" and everbody jumped on it. Again, selling this image. The types of bands I really respect are the ones that don't slap their face on every promo item they can. The ones that go out there and make amazing music, but don't milk the fans for every last penny. When someone goes so far as to have an action figure made of them, then there is something wrong. So even if these popular "artists" are making good music, I can't f*cking hear it through their loud image.