Question about CS Source's Physics

[lethal]

Shortly after Watching the full E3 Vid and witnessing CS Source I was Stunned. Although, I was wondering about its Physics. I recall gordon shooting @ the bridge. In SP, obviously the wood would split and the guy would fall through.

My Question is, will the physics be the same in the CS Source as they are going to be in HL2 :smoking:

 

[Ownzed]

good question, not sure, although on the video he broke threw that wooded door with his crowbar.

 

[SLH]

Doubt it, you may get things that don't effect play breaking, but not much stuff that'd have to be syncronized.

This is just speculation though.

 

[Anthraxxx]

After watching that video, I was amazed by CS again. This has brought me new interest in CS.

Is it just me, or did one of the boards break when the player shot at the CT's that were up there? I'm pretty sure that players will not be able to shoot out the bridge, only that little hole that is in the bridge...

 

[FictiousWill]

The wood on that bridge didn't break because that would mess up the flow of the level. Aztec isn't aztec without the bridge. I can guarantee you that was a design decision.

Future CS maps will certainly be designed to accomodate more destructibles, now that the capability is more fully realized.

 

[lethal]

Also, do you guys think the Lean Feature is updated in source? Like will CS have it now or mayb halflife2?

P.S. Havnt been around much in community, sorry if this has been asked b4

 

[Anthraxxx]

The wood on that bridge didn't break because that would mess up the flow of the level. Aztec isn't aztec without the bridge. I can guarantee you that was a design decision.

Future CS maps will certainly be designed to accomodate more destructibles, now that the capability is more fully realized.

Yeah, i know. What i meant was the little hole that is in the bridge.... i think the wooden boards that were in the hole broke when shot..

 

[Neutrino]

I'm sure level designers can set entities to either be breakable or unbreakable.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Wont the increased physics calculations make for unplayable conditions in MP. FC barely allows any physics in MP and it is really screwed up still.

 

[Chris D]

I'm sure level designers can set entities to either be breakable or unbreakable.

You'll find in some places of HL2 SP that boxes will break how they did in HL1 if that's how the level designer wants it.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

anyone else notice the fps dipping when they threw a nade near those barrels?
(I thought it was the shaky cam, but I have seen 3 versions of it and they all dip there)
Im not nitpicking, Im pointing it out because the Painkiller Devs, said that Physics in MP would be impossible (cpu intensive) thats why they had no coop.

of course Im sure Valve have found a way to work around it... Im just hoping that physics will be in full effect in MP as well as it is in SP

 

[Chris D]

Wont the increased physics calculations make for unplayable conditions in MP. FC barely allows any physics in MP and it is really screwed up still.

Most of the physics will be client side therefore it puts a minimum amount of strain on the server.

Far Cry went into beta stages with server side prediction for the weapons. That means if you fired the gun, before it actually happened it would have to synchronise through the server with everyone elses connection. I wouldn't be surprised if they've left most of their physics server side too.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Excellent news Chris_D. I really think full integration of physics in MP will allow HL2/Source to be the most revolutionary engine of our time.

And yes, I did notice the FPS drop on the explosion. I really wish it would run smooth through explosions, but I guess it has the same faults as every other engine

 

[Chris D]

Let me find the e-mail Gabe spoke about it in.

 

[Chris D]

From our Valve Speaks article:

The physics in the single player look absolutely fantastic, but how will physics work in multiplayer? Won't there be a problem with sending all the physics information packets to all the players? Are you perhaps scaling the physics engine down for multiplayer?

Gabe Newell: Well, the simple answer is that there are client-side and server-side physics behaviours. You use client-side when maintaining cross-client coherence isn't important. This cuts down network traffic while maintaining the appearance of physical simulation throughout the world.

So the physics appear to the player just like they do in the single player game without scaling it down, but objects that aren't required to have a correct placement in the world (like soda cans, small rocks, and so on) will be handled client-side, but bigger things (like a crate that's thrown on a player with the gravity gun, or a mattress falling down to block a hole in the ground) will appear in the correct spot for all players?"

Yahn: Yes, it's definable per-object, so exactly what's client vs. server simulated is tuneable.

 

[Chris D]

Also, in terms of the fps drop upon explosions, Rick already adderssed that at some point this/last week.

Hello Rick,
I have seen alot of questions, especially after the recent "shaky cam vids", pertaining to the physics engine and whether it will cause sudden "fps/lag spikes" if a sudden explosion happens. I have also heard rumors of this from people who claim they have tried the leak beta. Should we expect these fps spikes and second-long delays with low-end CPUs from the final release? Also will there be a sort of physics quality setting, for those who have low-end CPUs?

Thank you very much,
Justin Hopper

You should not expect those unless you are on a low end piece of hardware. The "leaked beta" as you put it was not a beta it was a stolen version of our source code, and was VERY old. It is certainly NOT representative of the game you will see at retail nor what you will see at E3 this week.

Rick

 

[seinfeldrules]

I wonder how they will explain the obvious decrease from the CS video? Not to sound argumentative, but it was clearly a drop. Meh o well, I will probably be too engrossed to notice.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

IM only speculative because (like most things HL2) its too damn good to be true.
man Im hyped up all over again, valve own my panties... give me Hl2 damn ye

 

[PatPwnt]

multiplayer maps will probably be more static because if you could destroy the bridge on aztec, it would ruin the way the map is suppose to be played. But adding the stuff like the barrels would be great or maybe if that bridge like rocked back and forth when it was hit. If you think about it... CS doesn't really need physics to be a good game.

 

[MoJo|Night]

I've just watched it back again and I have to say that it doesn't appear to be an fps drop. However it does appear to be a general slow down of movement of everything for a short while. It's about half a second after the grenade goes off if you want to have a look.

Now if people have seen it on the beta of HL2 and it appears to be in the CS:source movie could it actually be a deliberate effect rather than an fps drop? I doubt it and I really hope not because it would play hell up with timing and aiming.

I think we should all wait till a bink video of the direct feed comes out so we can see that it's definitely not a video recording problem.

Actually come to think of it the movie of cs:source is a cinemtic demo play back. It does pan around the level and zoom in on weapons etc like where the camera zooms across to the double doors to show the ct's. If you've ever watched an hltv demo back from the hl engine you can see a similar slow motion effect on demo play backs which the "auto-director" puts in for dramatic effect.

It would make sense that it might be a similar effect on the cs:source movie since the slow down does coincide with the gunfire aimed at the last terrorist by the three CT's.

 

[torso boy]

the thing about the physics in mp is they need to make sure there aren't too many physical objects, and that they wont all be moving at the same time.

i think that was lag, not fps drop because of the explosion, because it had an effect similar to 10 extra players joining the server and jumping 20 feet away from their starting point,all at the same time, happening in under a second

 

[Wildhound]

I just watched it back again. There is a definite and very brief skip in the fps, however it happens just as the grenade is thrown. The actual explosion and the movement of the barrels is perfectly smooth. Then it does another slowdown/skip a moment afterwards.

This suggests it was something else that slowed the game down and not the physics calculations.

 

[Scapegoat]

But it just shows that the barrels being thrown was server-side, and therfore they must of had influence on other players - meaning when a player is hit with a barrel they should take on damage and be disoriented!

Cool!

 

[hiflyer00]

The bridge could be shot down if they wanted, but they chose not to have it because of level design, and that would screw things up. Probably the only physics we will see in CS source will just be like barrels and boxes and stuff, and not something big like a bridge, but CS2 is built for the Source and supposed to take advantage of it, so that will probably have some very complex things.

 

[crabcakes66]

I just watched it back again. There is a definite and very brief skip in the fps, however it happens just as the grenade is thrown. The actual explosion and the movement of the barrels is perfectly smooth. Then it does another slowdown/skip a moment afterwards.

This suggests it was something else that slowed the game down and not the physics calculations.

Yeah the slow downs are not in sync with when most of the physics should be calculated....so that is probobly not the reason.

 

[MrWhite]

Maybe they arent done yet?

Just speculation.

 

[Jackal hit]

i wonder... the awp model in the cs source doesn't seem to be as detailed and nice as in regular cs... i'll have to watch the vid again, but those were my first impressions. so maybe that was a place holder and they aren't finished updating everything yet?

edit: nevermind, awp looks okay. the only prob is that lights aren't reflected in the water ... oh well not a big deal.

 

[Apos]

It was almost certainly demoed off a LAN game, so I don't see why FPS would drop unless it was an engine issue, in which case it wouldn't have much to do with MP per se anyway.