Real Time / Turn Based Discussion #32

[VirusType2]

RPG's and Strategy games, real-time or turn-based?

I like turn-based strategy games because it's based entirely on strategy, and not how fast you click on things. Like Chess, you have time to plan your moves carefully.

I don't like turn based RPG's because - at least in all the ones I've played, there is little strategy involved besides figuring out what a few of the monster's weaknesses are, like fire or ice, it's mostly attack attack attack, heal, attack, etc.

I like real-time RPG's, like Zelda and TES: Oblivion.


What do you like, and why? Examples of games would be good.

 

[Eejit]

The Baldur's Gate method of RPGs is good. It seems real-time, but you can turn on all the auto-pause options to make it effectively turn-based.

I like both types for strategy games. How can one dislike Command and Conquer? Equally, who hates Civ or X-Com?

 

[Nitre]

who hates Civ

I must say, from playing the demo, it didn't seem particularly appealing to me.

 

[Gargantou]

I like both real-time and turn-based RPGs as well as strategy games, it doesn't depend on the genre for me, but rather how well the devs execute the various elements.

 

[VirusType2]

I liked board games like Risk and Axis & Allies and when they starting making video games like this, I couldn't have been happier.

The only video game TB strategy games I recall playing were

Super Conflict for the SNES - pure awesome
Risk - PC - sweet
Advance Wars - GBA - kinda cool, didn't have a chance to play it much
Onimusha Tactics - GBA - pretty sweet
some game for the SEGA Saturn - beat this game. was cool, can't remember the game it was made by SEGA I think
Some Phantasy Star TB strategy game for - SEGA gamegear
some Cavalry game for the GBA - sweet
EDIT - oh yeah, Vandal Hearts 1 & 2 - PS1 - awesome as shit

Vandal Hearts 1
http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/4536/vandal4ju5.jpg
love the blood spouting

Vandal Hearts 2
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/screenshots/0/199180/vh2_screen003.jpg

Anyone know of any recent ones for the PC?

 

[DEATH eVADER]

I think games such as Ascendency and Imperium Galactica II hit the right tone (Basically hybrid games)

In Ascendency all decisions are basically performed in Paused Mode, but you can hit the speed buttons and you will basically progress in time. Although there is a next move button, you won't really benefit from this (as completed research and build projects, as well as completed combat moves, pause the game anyway)

In IGII you have option to pause, but game will progress slowly

 

[Gargantou]

I don't know any recent ones for the PC but there's the Tactics Ogre games for the PS1, SNES, GBA and then there's the Panzer General(Including People's General) for the PC.

www.the-underdogs.info is a very good site for finding good games that are from genres that aren't massively popular these days, www.mobygames.com is also good.

 

[VirusType2]

It depends on how deep you want the strategy games to be, there are very deep turn-based war(strategy)games avaible from for example www.matrixgames.com

I'll check it out. By 'deep', I assume that you mean 'really complicated'

I like the casual turn based strategy games, something where I can hit the ground running, yet not over-simplified.

A game that covers terrain types, the movement distance of the units, fuel and ammo consumption - stuff like that.

The fun is when there are a large amount of unit types, yet not so many that learning them all is overwhelming. You can always catch someone by surprise with a piece that moves a great distance or a unit that just won't die because of it's terrain modifier or whatever.


A great hybrid was Archon, it was like a chess game where you actually fought it out with monsters. Each side was well balanced with different yet equally powerful pieces. I loved that game. It's like 20 years old now though. Anyone know of any games like that?

 

[Gargantou]

Yes I mean really complicated, War in Russia(Freeware run it in DOSBox) is a simulation of the entire Russian WW2 theatre, it took me a year to loose my first playthrough of it, simply because of the amount of units you have to manage etc.

Also, TOAW is fun, these are all large-scale strat games, if you want games that focus on individual tank units etc, I recommend the WinSPMBT and WinSPWW2(Google them) strategy games, they are freeware as well, and some of the best there are, WinSPMBT covers everything from the end of WW2 up until 2020 in terms of units, technologies etc, you want to play a battle between Germany and the USA in 1995? You can.

 

[Jintor]

I only play Turn-based on the Handhelds (also Fallout)

So... Advance Wars, Final Fantasy Tactics A2, and Fire Emblem.

Most RTSs dissolve into rushing. : /

 

[Nitre]

Final Fantasy Tactics A2

Is that any good? I played the first one and loved it unbelievably much, although i've lent it to my friend for 3 years now.

 

[Bad^Hat]

I've been playing a bit of A2 and it seems fun in doses. Never got into the first one so I can't compare. Combat is a little ho-hum so far, but the job system and switching out your clan's items/abilities is quite addictive for some reason.

 

[Unfocused]

You know what? I'm actually thinking of firing up Jagged Alliance 2. I've got a CD with it somewhere, yet I never played it (maybe for a few minutes on a machine that couldn't run it properly back in the days). I heard it's good.

 

[pvtbones]

You know what? I'm actually thinking of firing up Jagged Alliance 2. I've got a CD with it somewhere, yet I never played it (maybe for a few minutes on a machine that couldn't run it properly back in the days). I heard it's good.

get the 1.13 mod, it's pure awesome. it makes all the gameplay mechanics better

http://ja2v113.pbwiki.com/

 

[alehm]

Hereos of Might and Magic 2: Price of Loyalty

I still play that game from time to time on my PC well over 10 years later. One of the best Turn based strategy games ever.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Archon is one of my all-time favorite games. Archon 2 was really good as well. LucasArts tried to make a similar game called Wrath Unleashed which was okay, but I never actually tried it so I am not sure. Battle Chess was also a long-time fav.

In Japan, there is an immensely beautiful SRPG called Tears to Tiara for the PC. It looks better than anything I have ever seen in the genre. It is coming to PS3 and I may just import it from Japan as it will likely NEVER make it to the US. Have a look.

 

[AmishSlayer]

I like real-time RPG's, like Zelda

Zelda isn't an RPG It's an action/adventure game.

 

[VirusType2]

It used to be more like an RPG. I stoped playing Zelda when it went 3D, so I can't really speak on that

Like in Zelda 2, you gained xp, leveled up in the path of your choice - like magic, strength, or health, found upgraded weapons and armor and rings, had potions, and talked to people and stuff

I would still consider Fable an RPG too, and I don't think I would be wrong

But I guess you are more correct. A real-time RPG is more like Dungeon Master, which had some clones like Eye of the Beholder which was pretty popular.

Archon is one of my all-time favorite games.

Same here. It's cool to find someone else who likes it. I never got Archon 2 to work for some reason. I either never got it to work maybe I never found it. I'm pretty sure it's abandonware, so I'll have to track that one down.

And I never got a chance to try Battle chess. I remember that game from like 25 years ago. I'll have to check out Wrath Unleashed. I hadn't heard of that one.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Eye of the Beholder which was pretty popular.

Man, another personal favorite. And its sequels. Anvil of Dawn was the same type of thing and just as awesome imho.

Same here. It's cool to find someone else who likes it. I never got Archon 2 to work for some reason. I either never got it to work maybe I never found it. I'm pretty sure it's abandonware, so I'll have to track that one down.

Try this site for Archon Ultra and Battle Chess. Is nice. Also has a TON of other free and AWESOME games for use with DosBox (mostly).

 

[Acepilotf14]

The Baldur's Gate method of RPGs is good. It seems real-time, but you can turn on all the auto-pause options to make it effectively turn-based.

I like both types for strategy games. How can one dislike Command and Conquer? Equally, who hates Civ or X-Com?

I dislike CnC, but like Civ. I think it really depends on the game... RTS works better for Sins and Supcom, but worst for games like Advance Wars on handhelds.

 

[Bob_Marley]

get the 1.13 mod, it's pure awesome. it makes all the gameplay mechanics better

http://ja2v113.pbwiki.com/

I wasn't really taken by 1.13, it was far too much SNIPERSWTFPWNALL and not enough tacticical manuvering. IMO the Mod Squad's "Urban Chaos" was much better. Though MGs were overpowered.

As has been said, execution is more important than genre. I can't imagine Red Alert being as good as it was with TB, but I don't think that JA would have been what it was with RT.

 

[VirusType2]

Man, another personal favorite. And its sequels. Anvil of Dawn was the same type of thing and just as awesome imho.



Try this site for Archon Ultra and Battle Chess. Is nice. Also has a TON of other free and AWESOME games for use with DosBox (mostly).

Nice website.


I just came across this:

http://archon.curvenet.co.uk/

Archon Evolution for Windows

Contact details can be found in the supplied readme document.

Tip: Change Light=J0 to Light=K in the INI file to have both players use the keyboard.

unfortunately, you can only play 2 player so far. I t's been updated recently, so here's to hoping they finish this one day.

 

[Deleted member 56031]

I've got to say I'm not a big rpg guy but i do much prefer real time.

For RTS though I like both and really have no preference.

 

[Laivasse]

Generally I enjoy turn-based games better except when I'm playing something like an FPS, obviously.

RTSes have always been a genre that I don't enjoy much precisely because of the stressful real-time element, which in my experience turns most maps into a frantic race to build enough units for an invincible rush. It's not that I dislike C&C, but I am usually less inclined to play it when there's another game to hand that's less likely to stress me out.

With turn based games on the other hand I can sit back with a cuppa or a beer and methodically plan my opponents' dismemberment at my leezhure.

The Baldur's Gate method of RPGs is good. It seems real-time, but you can turn on all the auto-pause options to make it effectively turn-based.

I know what you're saying, but in truth even without the auto-pause it's more turn-based than real-time due to the attack rolls involved (which don't correspond at all to your characters' attack animations). One way of describing it is that your characters manoeuvre in real time, but once you click attack you're watching them take turns doing so even if it doesn't seem that way. Of course if you're cunning you can also game the system by landing a single hit then breaking up the combat by taking advantage of the real-time movement, in order to restart the attack roll sequence in your favour.

I agree it works pretty well. However after initially hating the Fallout series' exclusively turn-based system, I eventually came to much prefer it over the combat in the BG games. While it removes a lot of the pace and sense of action, it returns full control to the player and makes combat more dependent on your characters' abilities rather than your own dexterity or quickness of mind. IMO that's an essential component of an RPG - ie. to cultivate your char's stats and then see what they can accomplish within the game world - and so I tend to be of the opinion that RPGs where combat is less about your character's skills than your own (with the mouse and keyboard) are missing the point.

 

[Gargantou]

Try this site for Archon Ultra and Battle Chess. Is nice. Also has a TON of other free and AWESOME games for use with DosBox (mostly).

To be honest, Home Of The Underdogs > Abandonia, shame HOTU isn't being updated these days.

 

[VirusType2]

^I just liked the way Abandonia was laid out with screenshots and a unique thread for each game. Haven't been to HOTU in a few years

 

[MiccyNarc]

I <3 the total war series of strategy games. Usually I prefer real time. I hate the civ series.

 

[Jintor]

FFA2 is awesome guys. It has the gameplay of FFTacticsAdvanced and a storyline that doesn't **** with your mind.

Stupid Marche.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Yeah. It just, you know, takes place in a book world with giant nose elves and shit.

 

[Gargantou]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasumi_Matsuno

The guy who made the Ogre Battle/Tactics Ogre games I recommended, he also participated in making FFT, FFTA, FFXII, Vagrant Story, all of the following games(except FFTA) take place in the asme world as Vagrant Story, called Ivalice.

For more info, go here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivalice

 

[Kakashi]

One game that comes to mind of turn based was Final Fantasy Tactics, a lot of people just loved it.
But I could never get into it, the battles were too long at times, and it was juts plain out annoying to me. It just never appealed to me I guess, I tried hard to play it but just couldn't.

 

[Jintor]

I thought FFTA took place in Ivalice? Except, like, it was some sort of weird-ass storybook Ivalice instead?

 

[Blackthorn]

If there's anyone who doubts the glory of turn-based gameplay, they need to spend a night with Advance Wars. Then inevitably every other night for the rest of their lives.

 

[Gargantou]

I thought FFTA took place in Ivalice? Except, like, it was some sort of weird-ass storybook Ivalice instead?

I'm not 100% if it takes place in the same Ivalice universe at the other titles though..

 

[Jintor]

If there's anyone who doubts the glory of turn-based gameplay, they need to spend a night with Advance Wars. Then inevitably every other night for the rest of their lives.

Not Advance Wars 4. That 'darker and edgier' game killed the whole Advance Wars thing for me.

 

[Blackthorn]

I've not picked it up yet, but I didn't think a change in visual style would change the gameplay. How much has that suffered? Because if that's largely unchanged I'm still buying.

 

[Jintor]

CO Powers got severely ****ed around, probably for balance issues, but to me it kind of removed the whole fun of using them. In order to use them, you need to:

a) Put your CO in a unit by paying half the unit's cost while on a city, using up that unit's turn (the CO provides attack and defence units in an aura around that unit, the range of the aura increasing the more your charge bar charges)

b) Charge the CO by killing while in the aura zone

c) Use the CO power... to effect units... in the charge zone.

In additional, all CO powers got nerfed. Hard.

Core gameplay is basically similar, and there are some things that are pretty cool (APCs can set up little mini refueling bases, larger variety of aircraft) but the severely butt-****ed CO powers coupled with the horribly-written 'darker and edgier' storyline that goes straight out the window about four missions in to become more about ZOMG MAD SCIENTISTS and all these completely shitty COs really pisses me off.

You might like it. I don't, at all.

 

[Lucid]

The only turn-based games that I like are those that are on huge scales like Civilization-type games.

I love RTSes to death though.

 

[Gargantou]

I wouldn't call Civ huge-scale, large-scale maybe but not huge scale

 

[Mutley]

<3 Making History.