[RELEASE] CP_REDSTONE - Beta 1
- Thread starter skdr
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delusional
Tank
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Gah I want to play, but the only servers that have it are locked.
delusional
Tank
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I liked this map a lot, very much like Granary but without the linear feel.
Okay, ran through the map a few times with scout, demo and engineer and here's my thoughts:
- The paths from first CP to second and third CP:s are confusing. I think you could use the blinking arrows in here to your advantage, afaik you should be able to activate those to point out fastest routes based on which nodes are capped.
- Everything between second and third CP is way too confusing. There's no general layout, it's just a plateful of spaghetti.
- Too much visual noise. TF2 is minimalistic in its graphical design, you've filled all the corners with detailed stuff which looks nice in itself but really make the map visually uneasy for the eyes and adds its own bit to the disorientation caused by layout.
- None of the wooden things (crates etc.) sound like wood when hit.
- Most of the window frames can be stood on. Some of them don't have polygons on top which makes them look hollow or displaced if the player decides to stand on them.
- Engineers can build things inside the first starting resupply room between the space where the bigger room connects to the smaller exit space. It has a different texture than the surrounding concrete floor, shouldn't be hard to spot.
- The specularity of that custom engine model is insanely high, it looks completely misplaced at the moment.
- Red first CP is too easily dominated by just one turret which can easily cover both entrances to the CP. On top of that it has a wall and a staircase nearby so that engineer can place a dispenser in complete safety from both entrances and even hide behind the wall while whacking away the poor sentry and keeping it alive. While this is sort of good it may turn out to be a bit overpowering.
In short, way too much detail and confusing layout. The biggest problem of this map is complexity both from visual and gameplay perspective.
- The paths from first CP to second and third CP:s are confusing. I think you could use the blinking arrows in here to your advantage, afaik you should be able to activate those to point out fastest routes based on which nodes are capped.
- Everything between second and third CP is way too confusing. There's no general layout, it's just a plateful of spaghetti.
- Too much visual noise. TF2 is minimalistic in its graphical design, you've filled all the corners with detailed stuff which looks nice in itself but really make the map visually uneasy for the eyes and adds its own bit to the disorientation caused by layout.
- None of the wooden things (crates etc.) sound like wood when hit.
- Most of the window frames can be stood on. Some of them don't have polygons on top which makes them look hollow or displaced if the player decides to stand on them.
- Engineers can build things inside the first starting resupply room between the space where the bigger room connects to the smaller exit space. It has a different texture than the surrounding concrete floor, shouldn't be hard to spot.
- The specularity of that custom engine model is insanely high, it looks completely misplaced at the moment.
- Red first CP is too easily dominated by just one turret which can easily cover both entrances to the CP. On top of that it has a wall and a staircase nearby so that engineer can place a dispenser in complete safety from both entrances and even hide behind the wall while whacking away the poor sentry and keeping it alive. While this is sort of good it may turn out to be a bit overpowering.
In short, way too much detail and confusing layout. The biggest problem of this map is complexity both from visual and gameplay perspective.
P
P.Jauri
Guest
Well...
While I admire Valves graphical design on TF2, I don't see it as some kind of holy book which we should follow blindly. We made it look and feel like something we'd like to play. Some like it, some don't. Can't really help that.
While I admire Valves graphical design on TF2, I don't see it as some kind of holy book which we should follow blindly. We made it look and feel like something we'd like to play. Some like it, some don't. Can't really help that.
Thanks for the comments Para. Sadly I don't agree how you think it's confusing. It's not anything special compared to Granary or Well's layout. I've recieved comments how good it is for tournament play too.
I'd suggest to play it more in a full server (20+ players) to get to know it better.
I'm fixing the bugs as we speak. We're toning down the specularity and the model clips (like windows).
I'd suggest to play it more in a full server (20+ players) to get to know it better.
I'm fixing the bugs as we speak. We're toning down the specularity and the model clips (like windows).
In general if something is good for tournament play (in TF2 or CS:S) it's actually a load of crap and unsuitable for "normal" playing which is what most people do.
The biggest issue is that there's no visual flow to the map at all, that's what makes it the most confusing.
The biggest issue is that there's no visual flow to the map at all, that's what makes it the most confusing.
C
crazychicken
Guest
OK I will give this a run on my server but the screenies are a far cry from what a lot of ppl would expect from the actual map tbh. It is just granary with a rocket in the middle. If granary was so great more ppl would play it. There is too much distance between the cps and the last cps are too close to spawn. Also the feel of the map is granary, it feels like a copy, make it based more around the rocket theme as you obviously have alot of talent but it's wasted when you sacrifice it to imitate the default maps which most custom map players don't like in the first place. There should be more control rooms and the buildings should be more like a rocket base.
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This map is amazing, the detail in it is so brilliant.
Yesterday I was on a 13 man server on it that shortly turned into a 26 man, the level is amazing to play as any class, Engineers have small boxes near control points to hide behind and place their sentry, Spys have so many different routes to manuever you may never be dedected.
Also, I had 2 amazing wins for my team. Team BLU, 1 engineer, 2 heavies and a medic convoy, 2 soldiers, 2 demomen, and a spy (myself) all charged for the final control point before they could set up sentrys and defend their base. I ran up to the control point and sapped a new sentry, then went to the left and stabbed a medic and Heavy who were preparing to uber against my team's heavies and the medic. The angry engineer came back out and stopped me from capping, then both BLU's heavies came up both stairs at either side of the CP, cutting the engineer into little tiny bit. Then we capped and all ran inside and masicared the other team.
Another one was the next round, all classes were the same. A heavy and medic were heading out of the resupply, I quickly stabbed them and cloaked. After hiding in a corner a suspicious engineer ran past, stab, hes dead. Another heavy spawned who didnt notice I wasnt disguised, stabbed him and quickly ran onto the CP. Then all of their team respawned as we won. Allowing me many backstabs.
Those wins were nothing special, they were just so fun
Yesterday I was on a 13 man server on it that shortly turned into a 26 man, the level is amazing to play as any class, Engineers have small boxes near control points to hide behind and place their sentry, Spys have so many different routes to manuever you may never be dedected.
Also, I had 2 amazing wins for my team. Team BLU, 1 engineer, 2 heavies and a medic convoy, 2 soldiers, 2 demomen, and a spy (myself) all charged for the final control point before they could set up sentrys and defend their base. I ran up to the control point and sapped a new sentry, then went to the left and stabbed a medic and Heavy who were preparing to uber against my team's heavies and the medic. The angry engineer came back out and stopped me from capping, then both BLU's heavies came up both stairs at either side of the CP, cutting the engineer into little tiny bit. Then we capped and all ran inside and masicared the other team.
Another one was the next round, all classes were the same. A heavy and medic were heading out of the resupply, I quickly stabbed them and cloaked. After hiding in a corner a suspicious engineer ran past, stab, hes dead. Another heavy spawned who didnt notice I wasnt disguised, stabbed him and quickly ran onto the CP. Then all of their team respawned as we won. Allowing me many backstabs.
Those wins were nothing special, they were just so fun
Just ran around solo for a bit and tried things out.
The final points for each team are quite well laid out. So too is is the middle. I must agree with other posters in that the 2nd & 4th points can be confusing to navigate. This is partly because the corridors around this area are quite narrow and double back on themselves, and arrows & signs are relatively sparse. People will learn eventually however, and so you could also just choose to ignore the problem and it will go away for people who stick it out long enough.
I think the map could be improved by adding a more vertical element to the gameplay in the outdoor areas. Being able to run around on the rooftops around the middle point, and having them extended so you could skirt around the entire area without touching the ground would be a lot of run for the classes that could get up there. A balcony or upper-story windows for attackers moving in on the final point might prevent what could potentially end up as a campfest coming up those 2 ramps.
Overall, the visuals for this map are top-notch, and I think it has potential to be a fun map to play. I will trying it out on a live server when I get the chance.
EDIT: Just a final note, I've found some of the noclipping to seem quite arbitrary. There were several places where I could easily have jumped to as a scout, only to be blocked by an invisible wall. If you really wish to keep people out of these places, then I recommend making it more obvious that you can't get in there. For example, I can't jump over a stack of those round metal weights or wheel axles or whatever they are in red's final point to get to the other side of one of the ramps coming into the area. It totally looks like I should be able to get in there, but I can't.
The final points for each team are quite well laid out. So too is is the middle. I must agree with other posters in that the 2nd & 4th points can be confusing to navigate. This is partly because the corridors around this area are quite narrow and double back on themselves, and arrows & signs are relatively sparse. People will learn eventually however, and so you could also just choose to ignore the problem and it will go away for people who stick it out long enough.
I think the map could be improved by adding a more vertical element to the gameplay in the outdoor areas. Being able to run around on the rooftops around the middle point, and having them extended so you could skirt around the entire area without touching the ground would be a lot of run for the classes that could get up there. A balcony or upper-story windows for attackers moving in on the final point might prevent what could potentially end up as a campfest coming up those 2 ramps.
Overall, the visuals for this map are top-notch, and I think it has potential to be a fun map to play. I will trying it out on a live server when I get the chance.
EDIT: Just a final note, I've found some of the noclipping to seem quite arbitrary. There were several places where I could easily have jumped to as a scout, only to be blocked by an invisible wall. If you really wish to keep people out of these places, then I recommend making it more obvious that you can't get in there. For example, I can't jump over a stack of those round metal weights or wheel axles or whatever they are in red's final point to get to the other side of one of the ramps coming into the area. It totally looks like I should be able to get in there, but I can't.
C
crazychicken
Guest
its too big and too boring. looking nice doesn equal gameplay, its like studio, that looks nice but its just as boring to play
