.rmf files of common map files

[Thadius Dean]

is there any place where i can download the .rmf files of common maps like dust and prodigy? or can i find the files in the counter-strike folders? it would greatly help me to see how those maps are laid out and how organized the brushes are.

 

[Dux]

is there any place where i can download the .rmf files of common maps like dust and prodigy? or can i find the files in the counter-strike folders? it would greatly help me to see how those maps are laid out and how organized the brushes are.

No, there isn't. Source to map fles are usualy kept on the Authors Hard Drive and not released to the Public. People usualy decompile certain maps to discover how certain aspects are done. But it's a crude, naughty and not an overly usefull method.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I tried decompiling the op4 intro sequence a couple of years ago so i could replicate it...I didnt bother decompiling anything after that.

For one thing, there were several pieces of landscape that went off into infinity. I ended up figuring it out myself.

 

[Dux]

I tried decompiling the op4 intro sequence a couple of years ago so i could replicate it...I didnt bother decompiling anything after that.

For one thing, there were several pieces of landscape that went off into infinity. I ended up figuring it out myself.

I assume you used winBSP to try and decompile it? There are a few more advanced decompilers available now that are more proficient at decompiling advanced terrain and brush based entities. But no decompiler can re-produce an exact copy of a map, there will always be parts missing/deformed.

 

[Shinobi]

leaning from a decompiled map can actually make you dumber

I'm saying this because it hides all the conventions the mapper used to keep r_speeds down in the first place,, you could try asking a mapper nicely for an rmf,,

dust and prodigy are pretty basic maps from an architechture standpoint,, just a lot of clipped blocks and good texture placement

 

[Thadius Dean]

eh, well thanks anyway, i guess i see what you mean...

 

[ComradeBadger]

I assume you used winBSP to try and decompile it? There are a few more advanced decompilers available now that are more proficient at decompiling advanced terrain and brush based entities. But no decompiler can re-produce an exact copy of a map, there will always be parts missing/deformed.

I did a similar thing with some Half Life levels, Op4's intro included.. that was way back when, about when Oppposing Force first came out

Didn't help at all :hmph:

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Decompiling maps (which is probably now illegal in the US thanks to the DMCA) is only useful for examining entities. It totally destroys the brush placement.

 

[Rupertvdb]

I had no idea that was the case, i really should have, i used to try and figure stuff out with a decompile a while ago but it never got me anywhere

I guess if you are trying to just find out the map strcuture then you could try a decompile but the best thing is just to work out what you want to copy, if it's architecture then just wander round the map, if it is entity based or something a little more advanced then look for tutorials.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

The issue with decompiling is....

Well, start with compiling. When you run CSG, it splits your brushes up, depending on the scale of your texture (which is why you should double or triple-scale your textures for things like rock faces)

After that, BSP subdivides all your brushes in a variety of interesting ways. So, when you decompile, you get a hell of a lot of triangles that tell you nothing about the original composition. Even if your decompiler can reconstruct planes from the triangles, it's going to be messy.

 

[The Dark Elf]

The only use of decompiling is what Pi mentions, the bit about how BSP subdivides it. You can see if the map was badly made in the beginning or not, depending on how subdivided it ends up looking after decompiling. A lot of people's maps have objects going through other objects everywhere, which leads to the BSP subdivided far more times than it should.

-

I heard once that Source no longer does that with the textures, splitting the brushes up depending on the texture size. Which is possibly a good thing cause it always caused trouble on HL1. So its gonna be interesting to see what is and isn't possible this time around.

It'll also be interesting to see if the props have an effect on how BSP cuts up the map. Either it will "see" the props and cut things up depending on the circumstances, or it wont see the props, only using them for lighting/shadow information while BSP pretends their not even there. Which I'm hoping, that way you can have nice complex props improving the overall map without worrying about them increasing the BSP cuts a thousand fold.

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I believe that props are added at runtime - they're not part of the compilation process.

 

[The Dark Elf]

I believe that props are added at runtime - they're not part of the compilation process.

Excellent then

Now if only Valve would confirm exactly how many entities and brushes Source allows per map I would be a happy man.. Unless its only a little bit more than HL1, in which cause I'd be a bit upset

 

[ComradeBadger]

Heh. I hit the max entity limit way too many times

I think it'll be a lot more tbh

 

[The Dark Elf]

Heh. I hit the max entity limit way too many times

I think it'll be a lot more tbh

I feel sorry for the poor buggers thinking their gonna make FarCry style mods in Source. Something tells me the engine is no way capable of that number of entities in a map.

 

[Farrowlesparrow]

I remember someone asking gabe whether it would be possible to have a fight better something like 2000 enemies...he said no.

 

[ComradeBadger]

I feel sorry for the poor buggers thinking their gonna make FarCry style mods in Source. Something tells me the engine is no way capable of that number of entities in a map.

I feel even sorrier for the people making MMO games

 

[Shinobi]

hahaha

well the entity limit is 512 but it's actually lower on that since the mod you program for (or HL itself) adds entities to the gametype

and yes, props will never block vis, I'm guessing(hopeing) they'll have flags on how they should be compiled

IE
-static, baked lights
-dynamic, dynamic lights
-physics, dynamic lights

and of course the opaque flag so you can turn off shadows on a per-object level for fine tuning performance

as far as making farcry type levels, at least in HL, the entity count has nothing to do with it

 

[The Dark Elf]

as far as making farcry type levels, at least in HL, the entity count has nothing to do with it

Since plants would be props, and props are entities, i'd say entities have everything to do with it.

 

[Shinobi]

ohh my bad


I thought you meant like far cry in terms of rendering vast terrain

as for the plants,, yeah that's a problem, I really hope valve won't limit the entity count too much,, I kind of doubt they will since it's such a small change

 

[Shinobi]

I can think of a couple ways to fake the plants,, you could use billboards for distant and low-detail plants with world brushes and bind them to the same entity,, obviously not a killer solution but it will definately help,, I used that method for my outdoor maps in HL

 

[qckbeam]

I feel even sorrier for the people making MMO games

no one in there right mind would try to create a MMO game as a mod to the source engine.....you'd need something quite a bit more customized than that

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I bet some people still announce MM mods though....

 

[ComradeBadger]

no one in there right mind would try to create a MMO game as a mod to the source engine.....you'd need something quite a bit more customized than that

People are bloody trying, I recall one mod trying to recreate GTA in multiplayer with cities and millions of AI NPCs

However, I think it's dead now

 

[Shinobi]

hahaha,, I can think of one sucessful attempt


there was a team that made a "MMO" for the tribes engine,, the reason they suceeded is because they kept their scope realistic,,

basically the way it works is each server is a different gameworld and totally unrelated to other servers,, the servers can only host something like 64 players similtaneously, there is only one map, but it's huge and hosts all the basic MMO elements (town, dungeons, etc...)

so basically it's an MMO lite,,, in a way it's like a graphical version of old BBS games like Lord and others who's names escape me

 

[FragBait0]

Heh. I hit the max entity limit way too many times

I think it'll be a lot more tbh

You could try this:
http://www.chatbear.com/board.plm?a=viewthread&t=52,1080647136,18491&b=590&id=652632&v=flatold&s=0

 

[ComradeBadger]

Thanks mate, thats sure to help