Rocket/Nade Jumping

[Hamsocks]

How the hell do people get so damned good at it? It seems like they always travel twice as far and jump twice as high as me. I can barely get on top of point B in gravelpit, and others are getting there from halfway across the map. I'll admit, I'm fairly new to the technique. I never played the original Team Fortress, nor have I played any other FPSs where it's used.

Are there any good video tutorials or websites that discuss the minute details?

 

[Crispy]

I find it harder to 'longjump' with the Soldier, but the Demoman is very easy.

There are a few tricks that improve your jumping distance in Quake engine games which hasn't changed in HL or HL2. The biggest of these is very simple to do and you don't even need to fire a grenade to see the difference. I'm not sure the name of the jump (I think it's a 'strafe jump'), but it's essentially going through a 90 degree turn and then jumping.

Try the following:
- find a point in a map where there are some lines on the floor that you can use to measure the distance of your jumps
- position yourself a few steps away from your starting line, and then turn 90 degrees to left or right
- what you need to do next is do a 'quarter circle' movement so you end up facing the direction you want to jump in -BUT- you also need to hold down the strafe button in the direction you are turning.
- now compare a normal 'run forward and jump' with a 'strafe jump'

The first video below was taken in Counter-Strike using the Half-Life engine, but the same principles apply. The second is the HL2 engine (although it uses 'sprint' which doesn't exist in TF2).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToJv0wI42O8

watch?v=XShUAxULrZo (for some reason this won't show the video but it is a valid link)

How does this affect a grenade jump? Well if the grenade gives you a set amount of added momentum, then increasing your initial momentum by doing a strafe jump will make you go further.

Once you've practised a bit you'll be able to strafe jump over a sticky and detonate it as exactly the right moment for maximum control over your height/distance.

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That's the trickier part of increasing your distance. There are 2 other very easy things you can do. You can duck, which makes air control easier, and you can time your detonation well.

Timing your detonation is a question of mechanics. In mechanics it is understood that the optimum angle to throw an object in for maximum distance is 45 degrees. If you apply this to detonating a sticky, it basically means you need to be at roughly 45 degrees (to the ground) in front of the sticky when you detonate it for maximum distance.

The thing is you don't always want maximum distance. Sometimes you want more height, so for more height you want to detonate slightly earlier in the jump when you are closer to being vertical above the sticky. This is because the maximum height is achieved by jumping directly above the grenade.

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Finally there is one last point. The earlier you detonate, the less time gravity has had to slow you down during your jump. Put simply, if you jump and detonate at the top of your jump, at the moment of detonation you will be going slower in the direction of motion. But- if you detonate immediately after jumping, you will be transferring as much of your initial momentum over to the explosive-aided jump as possible, and will go further.

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SO, the best way to grenade jump is to strafe jump over the grenade, detonate as early as possible (and as close to the source of explosion as possible), to crouch during your flight, and to use your increased air control to put in some extra strafing.

 

[CyberPitz]

The simple answer, unlike crispy's very complicated answer, is if you crouch while you sticky jump, you go farther up/forward. It's all in timing. Practice it. The jumping from the original HL engine is much different than source. Like I said, practice, and you might get as good as me and pesh at it

 

[Pesmerga]

:naughty:

 

[Hamsocks]

Thanks a bunch for the help guys. That's a lot to take in. Think I'll go practice in commentary mode for a while.

I'm a bit curious about something in the first video though. It seems that you achieve the same distance and velocity from a double and triple strafe jump as you would from a single. So what are the benefits of using the more complicated moves?

 

[morgs]

It's easy, unless you're on xbox, just look down, hold forward and jump and shoot all at the same time.

 

[Acepilotf14]

I think my post was deleted. Anyway, yeah, practice makes perfect.

 

[Jintor]

By the way, do the explosions from equipment detonation as an engineer work for rocketjumping?

 

[Crispy]

By the way, do the explosions from equipment detonation as an engineer work for rocketjumping?

Sadly, no. I don't think they do any damage whatsoever. In TFC detonating your dispenser when an enemy was using it would deal them damage. I think they took this out because it's an upper skill bracket technique that could be seen as unfair, confusing and offputting to newcomers.

Thanks a bunch for the help guys. That's a lot to take in. Think I'll go practice in commentary mode for a while.

Cyber is right, the littlest effort for the greatest reward is just to time your det and to crouch while in the air.

I'm a bit curious about something in the first video though. It seems that you achieve the same distance and velocity from a double and triple strafe jump as you would from a single. So what are the benefits of using the more complicated moves?

The double and triple strafe jump do make an increase but it's not massive. It's more obvious with a longer jump. Basically you gain speed while strafe turning in the air. The only jumps you in TF2 where extra strafing and air control are helpful are:
- Demo jump from Red spawn to CP C on GravelPit
- Demo jump from Blue spawn to Dustbowl CP 1:1
- Demo jump from middle tunnel to Dustbowl CP 2:2
- Demo jump from Red spawn to minecart grotto past Dustbowl CP 1:2
- Demo jump from bottom tunnel to Dustbowl CP 3:2
- a lot of Hydro jumps
- Granary jumps in the spawn areas (e.g. being able to air control into the new window they added in).

The main reason to learn extra strafing is for 'bunnyhopping' (which TF2 doesn't support) and 'speedskating' (which TF2 doesn't support). But I would say that single strafejumping -without any grenades- is a valuable skill to learn for most online multiplayer FPS games. The most common use you'll find for it is jumping to hard-to-reach areas and jumping round corners to avoid fire.

 

[Jintor]

Sadly, no. I don't think they do any damage whatsoever. In TFC detonating your dispenser when an enemy was using it would deal them damage. I think they took this out because it's an upper skill bracket technique that could be seen as unfair, confusing and offputting to newcomers.

Then how the heck do engineers get onto the Roof of B in Gravelpit? I've seen the bastards up there... is it possible to jump on your sentries at B and get onto the roof?

 

[Hamsocks]

Then how the heck do engineers get onto the Roof of B in Gravelpit? I've seen the bastards up there... is it possible to jump on your sentries at B and get onto the roof?

There are a few tutorial videos on Youtube. Excuse the crappy music in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7bEbic8kmg

It's very hard to do in an actual match. You usually don't have nearly that much time to do so. If you're playing against a good team, they'll go B first because it's easier to defend once the red team's turtled in. I've never used this trick as an engineer myself, but I'm assuming it requires a lot of protection from your teammates and a bit of luck.

 

[Jintor]

Yeah, that looks impractical in matches against skilled people. :/

 

[Crispy]

I've tried that now on public servers and if you get your team to block in the BLUs in their spawn on that side with stickies and Soldiers it can buy you enough time to get up top, but once you're up there you'll need to either drop a new teleport exit or a dispenser just to give you enough metal to get a sentry up, and it's this last part that takes time.

Also once you're up there a skilled Demo can still totally ruin your plans. Unless you get a Sniper up there to cover the exit it's hard to hold.

 

[Kadayi]

If they build a turret on the roof in B, just head through C (destroying their teleport entrances as you do) then shoot the turret/dispenser/engineer/teleporter exit from the C/B exit as your out of it's range.

 

[Citrus]

I find the soldier's rocketjump alot more difficult than stickybombing, cause I got it with the demo first time.

I figured out how to get the engie onto roof and can now do it quite quick. If you have a friendly engie build another dispenser next to yours it helps alot. If you have some good cover or slow opponents, you can get up there before the blues reach you. And Kadayi is right, there are plenty of positions where the enemy can easily take out your sentry.

 

[Jintor]

It's easy to stickyjump. It's hard to stickjump and land where you intend to.

 

[Hamsocks]

I got lots of practice on cp_castle today. Especially the arena with the canyon filled with smoke. If you go through there, you can jump right onto their point. I got to the point where I could launch myself, switch to my grenades, and pepper any defenders with a few before I landed. A very useful and sneaky trick.

 

[CyberPitz]

I got lots of practice on cp_castle today. Especially the arena with the canyon filled with smoke. If you go through there, you can jump right onto their point. I got to the point where I could launch myself, switch to my grenades, and pepper any defenders with a few before I landed. A very useful and sneaky trick.

It works well to get to places, but for sneak attacks, I prefer to be there with full health