Rumor: Microsoft really going after Blu-Ray Market

[Iced_Eagle]

After HD DVD has failed ( ), you can clearly see that a lot of retailers and consumers are buying the PS3 purely for a Blu-Ray player.
DigiTimes has what they feel is a really reliable rumor that Microsoft is going to put a stop to that by including Blu-Ray in a future 360 SKU. Quite frankly, Microsoft is going to hit at the only area where the PS3 has a lead right now.

If the 360 comes with a Blu-Ray drive, will the HD theatre audience instead go for the 360 over the PS3? What benefits does it have over the 360?

The 360 has Media Center integration and a Video Marketplace, which PS3 doesn't have. Will that combined with Blu-Ray support work? Hell, enthusiasts could still go onto EBay and pick up an HD DVD player for the 360 if they have HD DVD movies left over.

Right now the Blu-Ray drives are going to cost between 90-100 dollars for MS, so obviously they are going to sell it at a loss. It's rumored they will probably go into the Elite models (truly making them "elite")

If this rumor is true, perhaps we'll find out at E3.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20080401PD216.html

 

[Cormeh]

In my personal opinion, Microsoft can release a stand alone add-on for the 360 or integrate it into new Eilte consoles - both of which I won't buy anyway.

But overall a move by MS to at least get a slice of the Blu-Ray pie is of no surprise. I think for their ridiculous accessory prices as they are they shouldn't even bother with Blu-Ray. I reckon DVD will still suffice for the vast majority of the market.

 

[Rapstah]

Didn't Microsoft completely squash this rumour two months ago?

 

[Deleted member 56031]

I can see them releasing an addon and focusing on it for their next console but apart from an add on I don't think they'll do much any time soon.

 

[Kadayi]

There is probably a market for it, but I don't think Sony will stand for it and will do their utmost to stifle them.

 

[Rapstah]

Sony isn't Blu-Ray.

 

[i am HOLLYWOOD]

And thus the 360 turns into the Sega Genesis 2. . .

 

[ríomhaire]

And thus the 360 turns into the Sega Genesis 2. . .

Mega Drive > Xbox 360

 

[VictimOfScience]

However much $$ Microsoft might make from this decision, I would like to see also how much goes right into Sony's pocket since they own a stake in Blu-ray and also produce a lot of Blu-ray content and software (i.e. movie) sales are where these guys make their money anyway.

If it is true I am also glad that the idiots who said Blu-ray was a dead format on release because of digital frigging downloads can eat their words raw. We are a good few years away from that being mainstream. Consumers will be buying some sort of disc for quite some time I think.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/microsoft-lite-on-not-making-blu-ray-drive-298480

Rumor squashed again... For now.

 

[Mutley]

Do you still have to pay to go on Xbox Live? That's the only thing stopping me.

 

[Sedako]

Do you still have to pay to go on Xbox Live? That's the only thing stopping me.

Yeah, you do. Works out to around $5.50 a month. It would be much better if you didn't also have to pay to download certain content, since you're already paying for the service.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Sony isn't Blu-Ray.

Sure they are, at least they make one key component.

Read the article again. If this is true and Sony finds out who they are getting their materials from, then Sony can try to limit essential BD-ROM components to them, essentially stiffling the 360 Blu-Ray and making sure Sony wins in their own arena. Totally unfair, but Sony really needs to hold on to one of their last major features they have over the 360. Because let's be honest. Before Blu-Ray won the format war, there was still a lot of negative press over the PS3. Now that it's proven that it is going to be in it for the long-run and be future proof, retailers are now pushing it those who want the best HD set-up.

 

[smwScott]

If they did the price would be raised to comparable levels with the PS3, leaving the average consumer no reason to buy a 360 over the still more feature packed PS3. If anything it would be considerably more expensive for MS to include Blu-Ray in the 360 than it is for Sony to include it in the PS3 because Sony owns the format.

The Playstation brand has better name recognition and in addition the PS3 also has a lot more features right out of the box that you have to pay extra for with the 360. Putting them on the same pricing level would be stupid.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

If they did the price would be raised to comparable levels with the PS3, leaving the average consumer no reason to buy a 360 over the still more feature packed PS3. If anything it would be considerably more expensive for MS to include Blu-Ray in the 360 than it is for Sony to include it in the PS3 because Sony owns the format.

The Playstation brand has better name recognition and in addition the PS3 also has a lot more features right out of the box that you have to pay extra for with the 360. Putting them on the same pricing level would be stupid.

What are the superior features the PS3 has over the 360?

The 360 has Windows Media Center support and also includes an entire Video download store (for movies to rent and TV shows to buy).

Plus, if the enthusiast owns any HD DVD's he can buy the HD DVD add-on, and enjoy both formats :cheese:

About the price, it's already been rumored that if this happens then it would be sold at a loss (just like the PS3 is). It would more than likely be around $499, which is where the PS3 is at for the high-end model. Not sure if they would introduce it to the lower-end systems right away.

 

[VirusType2]

waiting for Xbox 540 with blu ray and raytracing for $300.

Seriously, I think that in a few years, MS should just drop a huge bomb in the form of a new Xbox with say.. triple or quadruple the graphics power of the 360 and PS3 for about $300

Who the hell would buy a PS3 then?

ATM, I at least, have no interest in Blu Ray, but in about 4 years I might.


BTW, I'm pretty certain that Sony only owns the Blue Lazer, since they developed it. The blu Ray lazer. The same blue lazer that HD DVD uses.

I think the BD (blu ray disc) is a joint venture from several companies, but yeah, they will see some of the profit for each disc sold I assume.

I think that any company can build and sell a Blu Ray disc player if Sony will sell them the lazer, the rest is up to them and is basically just an ordinary optical drive very similar in mechanics to a CD or DVD player.

 

[Operational]

Didn't Microsoft completely squash this rumour two months ago?

They haven't announced anything official, in fact the rumours are probably caused by Microsoft not ruling Blu-Ray out, like this:

"It should be consumer choice; and if that's the way they vote, that's something we'll have to consider," Albert Penello, group marketing manager for Xbox hardware said when asked whether Microsoft would support a Blu-ray DVD accessory in the event that HD-DVD failed.

There is probably a market for it, but I don't think Sony will stand for it and will do their utmost to stifle them.

Nope.

For its part, Sony welcomes the possibility of a Blu-ray-equipped Xbox 360. "If Microsoft wants to release Gears of War 3 on a Blu-ray Disc, I think we can make that happen," Sony Computer Entertainment America's (SCEA) vice president of Product Marketing Scott A. Steinberg told CNET prior to this report.

If this is true and Sony finds out who they are getting their materials from, then Sony can try to limit essential BD-ROM components to them, essentially stiffling the 360 Blu-Ray and making sure Sony wins in their own arena. Totally unfair, but Sony really needs to hold on to one of their last major features they have over the 360.

You've got it around the wrong way, Sony is trying to get Blu-Ray drives as popular as possible, it's been part of their long term plans for ages. For example they bought MGM, a studio with a huge back catalogue of movies just waiting for a HD release. They initially put a Blu-Ray player into the PS3 not to make the PS3 more popular but to make Blu-Ray more popular. Sony is trying to be a leader in HD content, by owning the movies and a large slice of Blu-Ray. XBox+Blu-Ray just furthers that goal.
Besides an XBox with a Blu-Ray player allows Sony to make some money for every one sold.

 

[AiM]

They haven't announced anything official, in fact the rumours are probably caused by Microsoft not ruling Blu-Ray out, like this:

​

Nope.

​

You've got it around the wrong way, Sony is trying to get Blu-Ray drives as popular as possible, it's been part of their long term plans for ages. For example they bought MGM, a studio with a huge back catalogue of movies just waiting for a HD release. They initially put a Blu-Ray player into the PS3 not to make the PS3 more popular but to make Blu-Ray more popular. Sony is trying to be a leader in HD content, by owning the movies and a large slice of Blu-Ray. XBox+Blu-Ray just furthers that goal.
Besides an XBox with a Blu-Ray player allows Sony to make some money for every one sold.

This.

From a business standpoint, Sony doesn't care about MS, it's all about making the greatest amount of profit for it's shareholders. Thus integrating Blu-Ray into the 360 will only increase it's market presence and drive up Blu-Ray related sales which equals more profit.

Sony has absolutely nothing to gain from withholding Blu-Ray to the 360 except to maybe satisfy fanboy ego's.

edit:

waiting for Xbox 540 with blu ray and raytracing for $300.

Seriously, I think that in a few years, MS should just drop a huge bomb in the form of a new Xbox with say.. triple or quadruple the graphics power of the 360 and PS3 for about $300

Who the hell would buy a PS3 then?

ATM, I at least, have no interest in Blu Ray, but in about 4 years I might.


BTW, I'm pretty certain that Sony only owns the Blue Lazer, since they developed it. The blu Ray lazer. The same blue lazer that HD DVD uses.

I think the BD (blu ray disc) is a joint venture from several companies, but yeah, they will see some of the profit for each disc sold I assume.

I think that any company can build and sell a Blu Ray disc player if Sony will sell them the lazer, the rest is up to them and is basically just an ordinary optical drive very similar in mechanics to a CD or DVD player.

Console-making companies use a price-skimming strategy to capitalize on the people who have really high demand (and money). Also in a few years Sony will undoubtedly also have PS4 ready so the 'new' Xbox won't be directly competing with the PS3.

 

[VirusType2]

Console-making companies use a price-skimming strategy to capitalize on the people who have really high demand (and money).

I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm not sure what you were trying to say, or how it relates to what I said. Elaborate?

Also in a few years Sony will undoubtedly also have PS4 ready so the 'new' Xbox won't be directly competing with the PS3.

Sony has plans to keep it on shelves for about 10 years before releasing a new console, if I'm not mistaken, has said so themselves.

I don't think 'anyone' bought the PS3 yet, do you think they can afford to scrap it and create another already?


Mark my words.

the xbox 3 will drop before the other consoles once again. They are way ahead of the game.

They should have already recouped their losses for the development and marketing of the 360, and should have already made a fortune. They are going to sell it until sales slows to a crawl, all the while using price drops to spike sales, then launch an xbox 3 [540?] when sales become stagnant. This time though, they will have their 360 to continue selling, kind of like how the PS2 is still for sale.

At least that's what I believe.


Sony has their HD disc standard. Thats what they were after. It cost them dearly, but they will recoup losses over the long haul.

 

[Kyorisu]

Reliable rumour my arse Microsoft have actively refused to provide Blu-Ray for the 360 (or future versions even). The whole deal with HDI upset them.

They haven't announced anything official, in fact the rumours are probably caused by Microsoft not ruling Blu-Ray out, like this:

I don't think they'll be digging into Blu-Ray any time soon. They're having enough fun fiddling with providing new digital content.

 

[AiM]

I'm not trying to be rude, but I'm not sure what you were trying to say, or how it relates to what I said. Elaborate?



Sony has plans to keep it on shelves for about 10 years before releasing a new console, if I'm not mistaken, has said so themselves.

I don't think 'anyone' bought the PS3 yet, do you think they can afford to scrap it and create another already?


Mark my words.

the xbox 3 will drop before the other consoles once again. They are way ahead of the game.

They should have already recouped their losses for the development and marketing of the 360, and should have already made a fortune. They are going to sell it until sales slows to a crawl, all the while using price drops to spike sales, then launch an xbox 3 [540?] when sales become stagnant. This time though, they will have their 360 to continue selling, kind of like how the PS2 is still for sale.

At least that's what I believe.


Sony has their HD disc standard. Thats what they were after. It cost them dearly, but they will recoup losses over the long haul.

Price skimming means companies try to make the most profit off people who are willing to spend any amount of money on a product they want right now. This explains why there's always a "shortage" at launch, it's simply to drive up the demand to ridiculous levels so people are willing to spend at whatever price levels they set it at.

In other words, Microsoft won't set the initial launch price at $300 because they want to lure the people who are willing to spend say (just an example) $500 on a console in the beginning of the life cycle. They will only cut price down to $300 - 400 level once the original demand for the $500 is exhausted. Then they'll cut down even further once this second level of demand is exhausted. Of course there are also other factors that could contribute to cutting price but this is pretty much the standard course assuming no major variables come into play (economic recessions, new competitors, etc.)

All of this deals with economics and it's greatly simplified, but I hope you get the jist of it.

---

Sony may have plans to keep the PS3 in play for another 10 years, but I highly doubt this is set in stone and is more dependent on the progress of PS4's development and how Nintendo and Microsoft will launch their consoles.

Personally I wouldn't agree with the approach you suggest MS would make. It's better for the consumers to have longer console life than to periodically upgrade after every 4-5 years. That's one aspect I admire in Sony's console (and Nintendo prior to GameCube) in that they've always had a long life span.

This year is pretty much the benchmark year for the PS3 a lot of it's major exclusives are due out this year (exception of FFXIII?) So from a sales point of view, I think you need to wait at least until this fiscal year is over.

 

[VirusType2]

Price skimming means companies try to make the most profit off people who are willing to spend any amount of money on a product they want right now. This explains why there's always a "shortage" at launch, it's simply to drive up the demand to ridiculous levels so people are willing to spend at whatever price levels they set it at.

In other words, Microsoft won't set the initial launch price at $300 because they want to lure the people who are willing to spend say (just an example) $500 on a console in the beginning of the life cycle. They will only cut price down to $300 - 400 level once the original demand for the $500 is exhausted. Then they'll cut down even further once this second level of demand is exhausted. Of course there are also other factors that could contribute to cutting price but this is pretty much the standard course assuming no major variables come into play (economic recessions, new competitors, etc.)

All of this deals with economics and it's greatly simplified, but I hope you get the jist of it.

---

Sony may have plans to keep the PS3 in play for another 10 years, but I highly doubt this is set in stone and is more dependent on the progress of PS4's development and how Nintendo and Microsoft will launch their consoles.

Personally I wouldn't agree with the approach you suggest MS would make. It's better for the consumers to have longer console life than to periodically upgrade after every 4-5 years. That's one aspect I admire in Sony's console (and Nintendo prior to GameCube) in that they've always had a long life span.

This year is pretty much the benchmark year for the PS3 a lot of it's major exclusives are due out this year (exception of FFXIII?) So from a sales point of view, I think you need to wait at least until this fiscal year is over.

I suppose you are right about the launch price.

Still, I think that everyone loves that wow factor of a new console.

By the time PS2 & PS3 came out, each time I was 10 years older, and didn't give a crap, because I already had something else that was just as good. What I'm saying is that I'd rather get a new console every 5 years then be stuck with the same old console where the graphics begin to really look awful and the polygons look sloppy, etc.


I wasn't really impressed with this generation of consoles to begin with and still don't have one. Now imagine in 5-10 years or whatever, how old the graphics will look. Although, when one of them can be had for the left over money from a paycheck, it will be tempting, because there might be some great 'console only' games.


Anyway, sticking with PC permanently unless something huge changes.

 

[smwScott]

What are the superior features the PS3 has over the 360?

The 360 has Windows Media Center support and also includes an entire Video download store (for movies to rent and TV shows to buy).

Plus, if the enthusiast owns any HD DVD's he can buy the HD DVD add-on, and enjoy both formats :cheese:

About the price, it's already been rumored that if this happens then it would be sold at a loss (just like the PS3 is). It would more than likely be around $499, which is where the PS3 is at for the high-end model. Not sure if they would introduce it to the lower-end systems right away.

In order to enter the market at the same price point as the PS3 they would have to offer features like built in Wi-Fi, free online gaming, high capacity HDD, and of course a Blu-Ray drive. Now even if they did this, the 360 still couldn't use the Blu-Ray drive or the built-in HDD for games since not every 360 would have one. This would essentially make it the same as a regular 360 with Blu-Ray movie functionality, but add nothing to games whatsoever.

With this in mind, it wouldn't make sense for MS to sell the console at a loss because they can't recoup ANY of that money on game sales like they can with a normal console. They would in effect just be selling a Blu-Ray player. The only reason a company would sell hardware like this at a loss is to further the installed base in order to make money off of software sales, like Sony did by putting a Blu-Ray drive in the PS3. However, MS wouldn't make any money off of software sales because Sony owns that tech - they would be selling a Blu-Ray player at a loss in order to increase market share and profit for a Sony owned format.

In order to release a 360 with a Blu-Ray player they couldn't sell it at a loss, so they would certainly have to raise the price above that of the high end PS3. In order to justify this they would also have to include all the features the PS3 has and much, much more - further driving up the cost. How well do you think a console like this would sell?

The only way possible for the 360 to get Blu-Ray in any way is for MS to sell a Blu-Ray player attachment like they did with HD-DVD. You will however see it in their next console unless they switch to a proprietary format.

 

[Kadayi]

You've got it around the wrong way, Sony is trying to get Blu-Ray drives as popular as possible, it's been part of their long term plans for ages. For example they bought MGM, a studio with a huge back catalogue of movies just waiting for a HD release. They initially put a Blu-Ray player into the PS3 not to make the PS3 more popular but to make Blu-Ray more popular. Sony is trying to be a leader in HD content, by owning the movies and a large slice of Blu-Ray. XBox+Blu-Ray just furthers that goal.
Besides an XBox with a Blu-Ray player allows Sony to make some money for every one sold.

Given that Sony have won the format war it's inevitable that consumers are going to buy Blu-ray players down the line, whether they are in consoles or standalone. Sony don't need to give Microsoft shit, let alone a helping hand. If they can encourage people to favour purchasing a PS3 over a blu-ray equipped 360 by throttling microsofts hardware suppliers they will do. There is more in it for them as retailers that way.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

You've got it around the wrong way, Sony is trying to get Blu-Ray drives as popular as possible, it's been part of their long term plans for ages. For example they bought MGM, a studio with a huge back catalogue of movies just waiting for a HD release. They initially put a Blu-Ray player into the PS3 not to make the PS3 more popular but to make Blu-Ray more popular. Sony is trying to be a leader in HD content, by owning the movies and a large slice of Blu-Ray. XBox+Blu-Ray just furthers that goal.
Besides an XBox with a Blu-Ray player allows Sony to make some money for every one sold.

How so?

You need to realize that there are two different markets.

1) HD Physical Video market. As of now, Blu-Ray is the only competitor. Nobody else is in tehre since HD DVD is gone. They don't need to push the format harder than they already are.

2) Gaming market. Quite frankly, Sony is getting their ass whopped (they are starting a come back though).

So you have those two divisions within Sony of the tech and gaming.

The tech division has already won their market, essentially. Of course they are still battling digital distribution but that's a marketing thing, not a thing you have to mess with the format for.

The gaming division is losing. They NEED to sell PS3's to regain the money they are losing. They don't need to push Blu-Ray so heavily anymore. So essentially they are going to hold onto any features that have them above the competition, in this case Blu-Ray.


smwScott: Built-in WiFi is a strong possibility for a future SKU.

Free online gaming isn't going to happen, sorry.

Bigger HDD is out there. If you want huge storage for videos/tv shows/demos/etc you will want the Elite which is 100GB. If you just want the HDD for gaming purposes and a few videos/tv shows/etc then the Premium's 20 GB will suit you fine. Obviously then people (like myself!) wish they had a bigger HDD, which they can get but for a very ungodly amount of cash.

 

[smwScott]

smwScott: Built-in WiFi is a strong possibility for a future SKU.

Free online gaming isn't going to happen, sorry.

Bigger HDD is out there. If you want huge storage for videos/tv shows/demos/etc you will want the Elite which is 100GB. If you just want the HDD for gaming purposes and a few videos/tv shows/etc then the Premium's 20 GB will suit you fine. Obviously then people (like myself!) wish they had a bigger HDD, which they can get but for a very ungodly amount of cash.

That's true enough, but it doesn't address the second part of my post where I point out that it makes no sense for MS to try and release a 360 SKU with a built-in Blu-Ray drive.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

That's very true.

Which is why I think they would do a Blu-Ray attachment if anything as well.

 

[CptStern]

Do you still have to pay to go on Xbox Live? That's the only thing stopping me.

I purchased my gold membership from dell on sale for $39,95 ..they have it on sale every month or so ..I've also seen it elsewhere for less than $50


on topic ..MS would be smart to work with hollywood studios to have direct downloads of HD movies ...that is if they can make them small enough ..blu-ray is kind of a waste imho as it would be playing into sony's hands

 

[AiM]

How so?

You need to realize that there are two different markets.

1) HD Physical Video market. As of now, Blu-Ray is the only competitor. Nobody else is in tehre since HD DVD is gone. They don't need to push the format harder than they already are.

2) Gaming market. Quite frankly, Sony is getting their ass whopped (they are starting a come back though).

So you have those two divisions within Sony of the tech and gaming.

The tech division has already won their market, essentially. Of course they are still battling digital distribution but that's a marketing thing, not a thing you have to mess with the format for.

The gaming division is losing. They NEED to sell PS3's to regain the money they are losing. They don't need to push Blu-Ray so heavily anymore. So essentially they are going to hold onto any features that have them above the competition, in this case Blu-Ray.


smwScott: Built-in WiFi is a strong possibility for a future SKU.

Free online gaming isn't going to happen, sorry.

Bigger HDD is out there. If you want huge storage for videos/tv shows/demos/etc you will want the Elite which is 100GB. If you just want the HDD for gaming purposes and a few videos/tv shows/etc then the Premium's 20 GB will suit you fine. Obviously then people (like myself!) wish they had a bigger HDD, which they can get but for a very ungodly amount of cash.

Don't agree with you there, Sony will do what's necessary to create the most amount of profit for them. In this case, expanding it's Blu-Ray user base through the 360 will not only provide them profit in terms of hardware sales, but also through the royalties. Sony won't hold on to Blu-Ray just for the sake of maintaining an advantage over X360, they want it to be popular and have as many adopters as possible.

Why do you think Blu-Ray was included in the PS3 in the first place? It certainly wasn't to make the PS3 more feature-orientated, but rather to generate the most Blu-Ray owners as possible.

Realistically, how many people are buying a PS3 over a 360 purely for having a Blu-Ray advantage? Whatever number that may be, it'll pale in comparison to the amount of profit they would generate if the format was extended to the 360.

I purchased my gold membership from dell on sale for $39,95 ..they have it on sale every month or so ..I've also seen it elsewhere for less than $50


on topic ..MS would be smart to work with hollywood studios to have direct downloads of HD movies ...that is if they can make them small enough ..blu-ray is kind of a waste imho as it would be playing into sony's hands

Compression issues aside, the broadband market penetration is also not big enough to warrant this service as a direct alternative to Blu-Ray. I think in MS case, they'll be forced to offer Blu-Ray in one form or another in maybe another year or two when the format becomes more established.

 

[Operational]

^ I'm Operational and I approve this message.