Russia recognises independent Caucaus states.

[kirovman]

Russia has recognised the independence of the Georgian provinces, South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The West critises Russia and acuses it of breaking international law. What I don't hear from the Western leaders is how the recognition of Kosovan independence is any different from this.
It would be interesting to hear why Kosovo should have independence but these two states should not.

However, I don't believe Russia's intentions to recognise the independence of these two states is noble, and I am not sure what game they are trying to play here.

 

[Solaris]

Russia has recognised the independence of the Georgian provinces, South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

The West critises Russia and acuses it of breaking international law. What I don't hear from the Western leaders is how the recognition of Kosovan independence is any different from this.
It would be interesting to hear why Kosovo should have independence but these two states should not.

However, I don't believe Russia's intentions to recognise the independence of these two states is noble, and I am not sure what game they are trying to play here.

While it is almost certainly true that Moscow's action in the Ossetian and (for good measure) the Abkhazian enclave of Georgia has been, in a real sense, the revenge for the independence of Kosovo (on Feb. 14 Vladimir Putin said publicly that Western recognition of Kosovar independence would be met by intensified Russian support for irredentism in South Ossetia), it is extremely important to bear in mind that this observation does not permit us the moral sloth of allowing any equivalence between the two dramas.

Perhaps one could mention just some of the more salient differences?

1. Russia had never expressed any interest in Ossetian or Abkhazian micronationalisms, while Georgia was an integral part of the Soviet Union. It is thus impossible to avoid the suspicion that these small peoples are being used as "strategic minorities" to negate the independence of the larger Georgian republic and to warn all those with pro-Russian populations on their soil of what may, in turn, befall them. This is like nothing so much as Turkish imperialism in Cyprus and Thrace and Iraq, where local minorities can be turned on and off like a faucet according to the needs of the local superpower.
2. Kosovo, which was legally part of Yugoslavia but not of Serbia was never manipulated as part of the partition or intervention plan of another country?the United States, in fact, spent far too long on the pretense that the Yugoslav federation could be saved?and, for a lengthy period, pursued its majority-rule claims by passive resistance and other nonviolent means. NATO intervention occurred only when Serbian forces had resorted to mass deportation and full-dress ethnic "cleansing." Whatever may be said of Georgia's incautious policy toward secessionism within its own internationally recognized borders, it does not deserve comparison with the lawless and criminal behavior of the Slobodan Milosevic regime. And in any case, it is unwise for Moscow to be making the analogy, since it supported Milosevic at the time and has excused him since on the less-than-adorable grounds (barely even disguised in Russian propaganda) of Christian Orthodox solidarity. It also armed and incited the most extreme and least pacifist forces in Ossetia and Abkhazia.
3. Does anybody remember the speeches in which the Russian ambassador to the United Nations asked the General Assembly or Security Council to endorse his country's plan to send land, air, and sea forces deep into the territory and waters of a former colony that is now a U.N. member state? I thought not. I look at the newspaper editorials every day, waiting to see who will be the first to use the word unilateral in the same sentence as the name Russia. Nothing so far. Yet U.N. Resolution 1441, warning Saddam Hussein of serious consequences, was the fruit of years of thwarted diplomacy and was passed without a dissenting vote.
4. The six former constituent republics of Yugoslavia, which all exercised their pre-existing constitutional right to secede from rule by Belgrade, are seated as members of the United Nations, as, indeed, is Georgia. Twenty out of 27 states of the European Union have also recognized the government of Kosovo as an entity de jure as well as de facto. The Kosovar population is estimated at 1.8 million, which makes it larger than that of some existing E.U. member states. Does anyone seriously imagine that Russia ever even remotely intends to sponsor any statehood claims for the tiny local populations of Ossetia and Abkhazia? On the contrary, these peoples will be reassimilated into the Russian empire. So any comparison with Kosovo would have to be not to its breaking away but to its potential absorption and annexation by Albania. And nobody has even proposed this, let alone countenanced the unilateral stationing of Albanian armed forces on Kosovar soil.
5. Heartbreakingly difficult though the task has been, and remains, the whole emphasis of Western policy in the Balkans has been on de-emphasizing ethnic divisions; subsidizing cities and communities that practice reconciliation; and encouraging, for example, Serbs and Albanians to cooperate in Kosovo. One need not romanticize this policy, but it would nonetheless stand up to any comparison with Russian behavior in the Caucasus (and indeed the Balkans), which is explicitly based on an outright appeal to sectarianism, nationalism, and?even worse?confessionalism.
6. The fans of moral equivalence may or may not have noticed this, but the obviously long-meditated and coordinated Russian military intervention in Georgia comes in the same month as explicit threats to the sovereignty of Poland and Ukraine, and hard on the heels of a Russian obstruction of any U.N. action in the case of Zimbabwe. Those who like to describe Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev as reacting to an "encirclement" of Russia may wish to spill some geopolitical ink on explaining how Kosovo forms part of this menacing ring of steel?or how the repression of the people of Zimbabwe can assist in Moscow's breakout strategy from it.

If it matters, I agree with the critics who say that the Bush administration garnered the worst of both worlds by giving the Georgians the impression of U.S. support and then defaulting at the push-comes-to-shove moment. The Clintonoids made exactly that mistake with Serbian aggression a decade and more ago, giving the Bosnians hope and then letting them be slaughtered until the position became untenable?and then astoundingly, and even after the Dayton Accords, repeating the same series of dithering errors in the case of Kosovo. The longer the moment of truth was postponed, the worse things became. But this in itself argues quite convincingly that there was no deliberate imperial design involved. Will anyone say the same about Putin's undisguised plan for the forcible restoration of Russian hegemony all around his empire's periphery? It would be nice to think that there was a consistent response to this from Washington, but I would not even bet someone else's house on the idea, which is what President Bush has given the strong impression of doing in the low farce and frivolity of the last two weeks.

Pretty good argument really - original

 

[PvtRyan]

"Russia recognises an old friend from school, but quickly realizes it's actually someone else."

 

[chimpmunk]

However, I don't believe Russia's intentions to recognise the independence of these two states is noble, and I am not sure what game they are trying to play here.

Russia is always the bad guy, is it?

Kosovo was a UN backed breakaway region of a Russian ally. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are Russia backed regions of an ally of the West.

And it's not like it was hard to see it coming anyways, Russia had warned that It could happen.

 

[<RJMC>]

its obvious kosovo was the cause of all this

 

[chimpmunk]

its obvious kosovo was the cause of all this

and it's not like the West suported Kosovo out of empathy and caring, but to get a pro-european/UN/whatever footing in the region (with the bonus of pissing off Russia).

 

[DEATHMASTER]

The Vrashans are at it again!

 

[kirovman]

Russia is always the bad guy, is it?

Kosovo was a UN backed breakaway region of a Russian ally. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are Russia backed regions of an ally of the West.

And it's not like it was hard to see it coming anyways, Russia had warned that It could happen.

Oh please, this is not about goodies and baddies.

I just want to know what Russia's motives are. The motives seem confrontational.

 

[Combine_Advisor]

War is immenent.

 

[<RJMC>]

and it's not like the West suported Kosovo out of empathy and caring, but to get a pro-european/UN/whatever footing in the region (with the bonus of pissing off Russia).

everybody knows that

what I wait is to see what the allies stand in this

for example chavez said he is against all seccesionism,but since he supported russia in the georgia conflict I wonder if he will support this reconigtion

and sure he would

 

[AJ Rimmer]

I just want to know what Russia's motives are.

The motives seem confrontational.

Hey, I think I got it!

 

[kirovman]

Yes, but what's the overall strategic picture?

 

[<RJMC>]

Yes, but what's the overall strategic picture?

the west have a ally in the backyard of russia***ssia have 2 more litle allies

and problably will try to get more allies closer to the west

in the news appears sirya is interesed in hosting russian missiles like poland is hosting american ones

 

[nurizeko]

Russia has recognised the independence of the Georgian provinces, South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Great, Russia will be recognizing the independence of the northern Caucasus states soon, starting with Chechnya, a region they ruthlessly crushed in a war within our lifetimes, who's major turning point was a massive increase in the scale of hostilities with the rebels coinciding with Putin's election to office and hardliner attitudes that came with him.



Oh wait, thats right, Russia doesn't give a flying shit about a man's right to liberty and freedom and a peoples right to self determination, Russia (unsurprisingly) only gives a shit about its own ambitions.


But hey, on a plus side, at least America-bashers can shut up, if you need to cite an example of hypocrisy in regard to supporting or not supporting a peoples aspirations to self governance and sovereignty, you can lobotomize your anti-American brain damaged regions and flip through Russia's long and colourful history of interfering with other people's affairs and picking and choosing conflicts to get involved in for Russia's own interests.


I'm not even American or "pro" American, I just cant stand anti American bitching.



To the Ameri-bashers, have fun trying to explain away Russia's hypocritical behaviour, I'm sure you'll find some half assed point to excuse Russia for its naughties while still finding space to emo rage on America.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

We should destroy all weapons then what will be left? Bare knuckle boxing! (and shanks)

 

[<RJMC>]

newsflash

chavez recognises the independences too

the same one who some months ago was saying "this is a goverment agaisnt seccecionism" and such

 

[nurizeko]

newsflash

chavez recognises the independences too

the same one who some months ago was saying "this is a goverment agaisnt seccecionism" and such

Lol, I don't think anyone honestly listens to what Chavez says anymore, hes that odd guy at the party who talks allot and says allot but nothing of value to anyone so they mostly ignore him.

 

[The_E]

Russia attacked Georgia just because they were afraid that they couldnt do that when Georgia enters NATO.

 

[Kase]

The UN's highest court will rule this week on a Georgian bid for protection against what it claims was a campaign of "ethnic cleansing" by Russia in their clash over two breakaway regions.

meh.