Schools should start teaching some truth

[Core407]

Can someone explain to me why schools don't actually teach things that'll be useful to people just entering the real world? What is the point of telling kids that they're capable of anything when in reality they're not. Kids need to learn that individuality, for the most part, is frowned upon in the corporate world.

 

[[Dragoon]]

Can someone explain to me why schools don't actually teach things that'll be useful to people just entering the real world? What is the point of telling kids that they're capable of anything when in reality they're not. Kids need to learn that individuality, for the most part, is frowned upon in the corporate world.

The school system is full of lies and deceit, and is horribly designed. It manufactures consumers, not intelligent people.

(This refers to the US school system. Can't comment on other countries, as I don't know much about their school systems)

 

[Raziaar]

I dropped out of school. Maybe that's why I'm not a consumer whore.

 

[Tyguy]

THe US has a terrible school system.....thats why we have to buy scientists and other people from other countries

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Generally, I use about 75% of what I studied at school on a day-to-day basis.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Core407]

Generally, I use about 75% of what I studied at school on a day-to-day basis.

-Angry Lawyer

My issue isn't so much with the academics portion, but the way the schools warp the way the real world really is.

 

[Dynasty]

Yes, schools teach you nothing. which is why people who went to school, high school and uni etc generally have better jobs than those that dont. why? because they get taught things the people who didnt go to school, dont know.

though i do have to laugh at some of the stuff you get told at a-level. if its related to what you learned at gcse level, the teachers say 'what you learned at gcse isnt actually true'. haha, had my biology teacher say that on the odd occasion. however, understandably, youre not taught in as much detail at gcse level than you are at a-level..level.

 

[Raziaar]

Yes, schools teach you nothing. which is why people who went to school, high school and uni etc generally have better jobs than those that dont. why? because they get taught things the people who didnt go to school, dont know.

Actually, for the most part people get those jobs simply BECAUSE they went to school, not because they have all the essentials garnered from their education in school.

 

[Core407]

Actually, for the most part people get those jobs simply BECAUSE they went to school, not because they have all the essentials garnered from their education in school.

Well thats a little bit extreme. I'd say its a mix of the two, but again, this isn't an issue of academics.

 

[xcellerate]

aren't doctors in school till they're like 40? that's almost half your life...couldn't you say school is their life...or at least a vast part of it?

I will say the one thing that has pissed me off in school is that math classes (even upper level) won't let me use my TI-89 calculator. In fact I got kicked out of calc for trying to argue it.


I asked the teacher why I couldn't use it, and he said because you never learn what the calculator is doing, you just learn how to work it. So I told him then he better give me the keys to his car, and he asked why, and I said because you don't know how it works you just know how to work it. I kept going too, I told him he better turn off the lights and the a/c and when he gets home he better not even think about turning on his TV, because all those things are things he doesn't know how they work but just how to work them.

He told me to get out and come back when I have a better attitude towards learning. A calculator does math faster and with less mistakes than pencil and paper, why am I not allowed to do something if it's faster, easier, more accurate, and yields the same results?

 

[Raziaar]

aren't doctors in school till they're like 40? that's almost half your life...couldn't you say school is their life...or at least a vast part of it

Well technically doctors have to school for the entirety of their career lives. They have to reeducate themselves constantly if I'm not mistaken, as new developments and advancements come through.

 

[Core407]

Well technically doctors have to school for the entirety of their career lives. They have to reeducate themselves constantly if I'm not mistaken, as new developments and advancements come through.

Thats no different than a system admin reading up on new technologies.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I dont know what midwestern psycho-schools you guys went to but I actually liked gaining new knowledge from my teachers (for the most part). The purpose of all of it is to see how you take in all of that knowledge and present it, it's a type of assessment for the real thing (jobs), of course a lot of jobs are jokes nowadayz so I don't know about them...but things like being a doctor and stuff require a well trained mind.

 

[Core407]

I dont know what midwestern psycho-schools you guys went to but I actually liked gaining new knowledge from my teachers (for the most part). The purpose of all of it is to see how you take in all of that knowledge and present it, it's a type of assessment for the real thing (jobs), of course a lot of jobs are jokes nowadayz so I don't know about them...but things like being a doctor and stuff require a well trained mind.

The schools that I went to would avoid real-world problems and by avoiding them, they're hurting students more than helping. How about instead of ignoring discrimination in the work place we teach students how to handle it and what to expect.

 

[hungryduck]

I agree with many of these points - but I think the most important thing that school offers is the immersion of a child into a social enviroment that is exciting, educational, and sometimes brutal. It's where we learn to make friends, deal with bullys, suck-up or rebel against adults, make money (I used to sell pogs ), fight, how to interact with the opposite sex, and so on and so on.
It's not so much of what the teacher's these days drill into your brain, its the experience you gain by being stuck with a school full of othere kids that love/adore/annoy/hate you for 10 months out of the year.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

The schools that I went to would avoid real-world problems and by avoiding them, they're hurting students more than helping. How about instead of ignoring discrimination in the work place we teach students how to handle it and what to expect.

I already learned about that discrimination in the work place stuff in Psychology, but to really go beyond that I think what you're looking for is a specific course dealing with that, the entire education system being restructured isn't required for that.

 

[Core407]

I already learned about that discrimination in the work place stuff in Psychology, but to really go beyond that I think what you're looking for is a specific course dealing with that, the entire education system being restructured isn't required for that.

I just think it's sort of a waste to take so many academic based classes, go off to college and then be told that everything you learned was a waste.

I think highschools need to offer more real world classes. In my last year in highschool, they offered a mathematics class that taught the basics of budget management, loans, stock market investment and more.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I think they offer that here, they called it business math in my old high school. But how else are they supposed to assess your skills? This is a way to actually open your mind to all the types of things available ~ science, math, history, etc. The only way for you to know what you're really interested in is to take them for 12 years then in college you decide on which one you want to really go into. Even then people change their majors mid-way because they want something else. A lot of stuff is basic things you'd probably want to know too like the Holocaust, why it happened, and how things went in the world to prevent anything of the sort from happening again.

 

[Stigmata]

I will say the one thing that has pissed me off in school is that math classes (even upper level) won't let me use my TI-89 calculator. In fact I got kicked out of calc for trying to argue it.


I asked the teacher why I couldn't use it, and he said because you never learn what the calculator is doing, you just learn how to work it. So I told him then he better give me the keys to his car, and he asked why, and I said because you don't know how it works you just know how to work it. I kept going too, I told him he better turn off the lights and the a/c and when he gets home he better not even think about turning on his TV, because all those things are things he doesn't know how they work but just how to work them.

He told me to get out and come back when I have a better attitude towards learning. A calculator does math faster and with less mistakes than pencil and paper, why am I not allowed to do something if it's faster, easier, more accurate, and yields the same results?

Though I definitely see where you were coming from, you weren't in class to learn how to use a TI-89.

Math classes are there for you to learn how mathematics works, how to apply it to everyday situations, how to use it in other fields of research, how to develop new theories, and so on and so forth. Plugging equations into a calculator teaches you nothing about the intricacies of mathematics, while manually working out equations and relations teaches you a hell of a lot.

To use the car analogy: People in mechanics classes don't go to class to learn how to turn the key for an engine someone else built.

 

[Core407]

I think they offer that here, they called it business math in my old high school. But how else are they supposed to assess your skills? This is a way to actually open your mind to all the types of things available ~ science, math, history, etc. The only way for you to know what you're really interested in is to take them for 12 years then in college you decide on which one you want to really go into. Even then people change their majors mid-way because they want something else. A lot of stuff is basic things you'd probably want to know too like the Holocaust, why it happened, and how things went in the world to prevent anything of the sort from happening again.

Spending 4 years on a subject and going off to college only to find that all those 4 years were a waste doesn't sound like a great thing to me.

 

[CptStern]

then be told that everything you learned was a waste.

it sure was ..cant talk now, too busy choking on irony


my head hurts from so many of kneejerk reactionary opinions on schools some of you seem to have ..most completely without any merit whatsoever. I shudder thinking about what some of your opinions would have been had you never attended school (the world is only 6000 years old and Adam was the first man on the moon, no seriously)


school is useless for a job UNLESS it's entry level ..after you've been working for a few years and are applying to a mid level job they couldnt care less what school you went to ..that said: STAY IN SCHOOL ..some of you need it

if 4 years at college is a waste then you should probably stop taking bird courses (basket weaving 101, Underwater Interpretative Ballet 201)and start taking courses that will lead you towards a career

 

[Core407]

it sure was ..cant talk now, too busy choking on irony


my head hurts from so many of kneejerk reactionary opinions on schools some of you seem to have ..most completely without any merit whatsoever. I shudder thinking about what some of your opinions would have been had you never attended school (the world is only 6000 years old and Adam was the first man on the moon, no seriously)


school is useless for a job UNLESS it's entry level ..after you've been working for a few years and are applying to a mid level job they couldnt care less what school you went to ..that said: STAY IN SCHOOL ..some of you need it

if 4 years at college is a waste then you should probably stop taking bird courses (basket weaving 101, Underwater Interpretative Ballet 201)and start taking courses that will lead you towards a career

Sorry, I was strictly talking about highschool. To me, college is a necessity and high school is a requirement.

 

[CptStern]

high school is very important ..it's where you start learning to think critically which is a necessity in college/university ...also high school has the biggest impact in determining where you're heading in life ..screw up in high school and the chances of going to college are next to none

I dont mean to single you out specifically Core, many younger people think the way you do (I did too)

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I think High school was pretty much the stepping stone for your teenage mind aquired knowledge, as you quickly learn who is capable and willing and who is going to drop out and push carts at the grocery store for the rest of their lives. (LOL basket weaving 101)

 

[Core407]

high school is very important ..it's where you start learning to think critically which is a necessity in college/university ...also high school has the biggest impact in determining where you're heading in life ..screw up in high school and the chances of going to college are next to none

I dont mean to single you out specifically Core, many younger people think the way you do (I did too)

Your argument is more of why high school is important. I'm not arguing its importance, but more of its value. What really is the point of judging someone on improper knowledge? When I went to high school none of the classes encouraged free thinking or independence. It was do these assignments, write this paper, read these chapters. Then go off to college and be told that a lot of what you learned you will need to forget? That doesn't sound like a great thing to me.

 

[xcellerate]

Though I definitely see where you were coming from, you weren't in class to learn how to use a TI-89.

I just feel like I'm wasting my life away sitting here for 15 minutes solving a problem that I could have done in 3, had they given me my calculator. People act like you just rub your calculator over the math problem and the solution pops up on the screen; a calculator is a tool, and like any good tool you still have to know what you're doing to use it correctly.

That's just how I feel about it though.

edit: just to use cars as an example again, I could give you every tool you needed to install a motor, but if you don't understand what you're doing then you're just going to do it wrong.

 

[CptStern]

Your argument is more of why high school is important. I'm not arguing its importance, but more of its value. What really is the point of judging someone on improper knowledge? When I went to high school none of the classes encouraged free thinking or independence. It was do these assignments, write this paper, read these chapters. Then go off to college and be told that a lot of what you learned you will need to forget? That doesn't sound like a great thing to me.

..but that is critical thinking ..it's preparing you for a post secondary education where there's no hand holding by teachers at all ..if you havent learned critical thinking by then you're in big trouble in college because teachers dont have the time for one on one

 

[Core407]

I just feel like I'm wasting my life away sitting here for 15 minutes solving a problem that I could have done in 3, had they given me my calculator. People act like you just rub your calculator over the math problem and the solution pops up on the screen; a calculator is a tool, and like any good tool you still have to know what you're doing to use it correctly.

That's just how I feel about it though.

The goal isn't to solve the answer, but to understand the problem and how the solution works. If you understand how it works, you're going to be able to solve any problem that uses the same solution.

 

[Core407]

..but that is critical thinking ..it's preparing you for a post secondary education where there's no hand holding by teachers at all ..if you havent learned critical thinking by then you're in big trouble in college because teachers dont have the time for one on one

I realize that, but its just a shitty way of doing it and I think it alienates a lot of people.

 

[Majestic XII]

I feel like I got a great education when I was young (makes me feel old, I'm 19). I had sex-ed when I was around 10 years old (then at three other times) so I got that covered. Religion and social studies was great since it was very open and treated everything equal. We're not very christian here in Swedeland, so I guess that helped a lot. We had people from different religions come to the school to talk about their point of view so we could ask them questions. It really opened my mind to new ideas and religions, it's been very helpful and I think it's a very important thing to learn.

I'm in University now studying game development, so the the social studies helped me quite a bit (requirement to apply to the program aswell.).

 

[CptStern]

because they cant tailor it to each individual student ..there's just too many students ..go to a private school where a classroom has 8 - 16 students and you'll see a different story all together ..the curiculuum is the same but there's usually more one to one attention and kids dont fall between the cracks

 

[Core407]

because they cant tailor it to each individual student ..there's just too many students ..go to a private school where a classroom has 8 - 16 students and you'll see a different story all together ..the curiculuum is the same but there's usually more one to one attention and kids dont fall between the cracks

So basically suffer.

 

[Raziaar]

No go to high school, me no smart.

 

[CptStern]

So basically suffer.

no, make the most of it

..give you an example ...in english class I slept throughout the entire semester ..yet received one of the highest marks in the class (no it wasnt for grammar ) how? easy, I read every book required before christmas so I was way ahead of the class ..so by about march break I couldnt just sleep in class cuz I was completely bored ..so instead I did my history homework and improved my grades

dont just coast along ..that sort of attitude will follow you throughout life ..employers pick up on that ..you'll rarely see a high paid employee who just coasts along

 

[Beerdude26]

When you find certain info useless, don't study it. I would be hella pissed if I only had the chance to get 3 courses (eg. math, history and languages) and then go to college and see there is fifty times more choice, but I don't know jack shit about 47 of them because I went to a school that only gave me 3 courses :|

 

[jverne]

aren't doctors in school till they're like 40? that's almost half your life...couldn't you say school is their life...or at least a vast part of it?

I will say the one thing that has pissed me off in school is that math classes (even upper level) won't let me use my TI-89 calculator. In fact I got kicked out of calc for trying to argue it.


I asked the teacher why I couldn't use it, and he said because you never learn what the calculator is doing, you just learn how to work it. So I told him then he better give me the keys to his car, and he asked why, and I said because you don't know how it works you just know how to work it. I kept going too, I told him he better turn off the lights and the a/c and when he gets home he better not even think about turning on his TV, because all those things are things he doesn't know how they work but just how to work them.

He told me to get out and come back when I have a better attitude towards learning. A calculator does math faster and with less mistakes than pencil and paper, why am I not allowed to do something if it's faster, easier, more accurate, and yields the same results?

hehe, you deserve a medal for that! great way to retaliate.


stern it depends.
in a technical school being critical is usefull next to nothing.
and even here you get taught such stupid things that probably you'll never use.
being innovative, resourceful, smart is the key to success.
you don't necessarily need to collect shopping baskets.

i remember a funny idea when somebody offered small square adds for a dollar on his site. he got lot's of money.
i bet school didn't teach him that.

 

[Tagaziel]

I pretty much liked school altogether, as it's not only the school's teacher, it's the environment there. I loved high school for that, so many individualities, so many ideas, so many screwed up executions (eg. pushing a 2m pal in a small carton box down the stairs)...

Plus, I DO use much of the information I attained from the overbloated curriculums we have here in Poland.

Also, I heard that math tests in USA are hard, with equations needing calculatin a single placeholder, gee, is that true?

 

[nofx]

I like highschool, I goto school in Florida the education here isn't so great and kids graduate that can barely read, but for me I am in the Ib program and we as a student body usually get the best teachers in the school and we get classes that allow us to think philosophically, plus we get alot of hard work. I like highschool not so much for the people but for the challenge that schooling offers, letting you glimpse at your potential.

 

[xcellerate]

The goal isn't to solve the answer, but to understand the problem and how the solution works. If you understand how it works, you're going to be able to solve any problem that uses the same solution.

I'm going to have to disagree with you...first, being really technical, the goal IS to solve the problem because you don't get credit on your homework for understanding. You could have your best friend do your homework and you would still get credit for it even though you don't understand it; therefore the goal is to get an answer. You also don't pass classes so long as you understand the material, you pass classes when you can answer the problems.

sure, school may pass it off as "we really just care that you understand the material, not get the answers right" but they certainly don't practice it that way. Because you have to PROVE to them you understand the subject which means...getting the answers right...

and second, if I can do one problem of a certain type on my calculator then I can certainly do a second.

 

[Direwolf]

I'm going to have to disagree with you...first, being really technical, the goal IS to solve the problem because you don't get credit on your homework for understanding. You could have your best friend do your homework and you would still get credit for it even though you don't understand it; therefore the goal is to get an answer. You also don't pass classes so long as you understand the material, you pass classes when you can answer the problems.

How exactly can they gauge performance without allowing people to cheat? Theres been many different theories for education, but there are only so many practical ways to actually try and teach someone. So whats the proposed alternative?