Server Needs a New Home

[Raziaar]

Well guys.. this is a pretty serious thread, so here's the situation.

Hokey has been doing a wonderful job of hosting the server all of this time, and really being the one to get it up and running and so successful. Praises all around for his service.

The problem however as I predicted before we started this venture, is that an individual hosting the server on a personal machine and having to run the day to day operations of it has taken its toll on Hokey and he finds himself without much time to any other personal things.

It's a lot for a person to take care of, when it's a personal computer and all low level operations must be performed by that individual.


So Hokey needs to stop hosting the server soon, and we need to find another home for our world.

This presents a multitude of problems. If we have another individual on a personal machine host the server, we're faced with an eventual issue like Hokey has, as far as the burden of maintaining the server. It's quite high, and higher than Hokey expected surely. Hokey has also been incredibly reliable and devoted tons of his time to regularly maintaining the server, uploading world saves, backing up the world... etc. Something that most other people might not have the time or inclination to do.

The other thing to look at, is professional hosting. Minecraft is too early in development and doesn't have any solid hosts out there. There are some preliminary hosts lurking in the waters, testing out the profitability of this though, but they are expensive. And by expensive, I mean more expensive than any other typical game server rental for a far lower total player count. This would mean that we'd need money, and a lot of it to be able to maintain a server in that way... though it would greatly relieve the personal problems of hosting it on a personal machine, especially if more than one trusted individual had access to uploading the world data etc.


I need your thoughts and suggestions guys. We don't want this thing to die out before it began.

Also don't worry about the server just disappearing without notice. Hokey plans on keeping it up and going until we find a fool proof replacement plan. He's as dedicated to the continuing success of this server as anybody else. I mean, he launched it off the ground.

 

[ríomhaire]

I'd contribute some for proper server hosting

 

[Raziaar]

Also, the cost for proper server hosting on one of these rental services springing up for minecraft(which do actually professionally host servers for other games), is not completely unreasonable if we could get a fairly decent pool of donors.


Let me also add that we want this server, this world... to remain in responsible HL2.net hands and operated in a fashion very much like it has.

 

[kazsymonds]

I would gladly;

a) Pay money to continue playing on the minecraft server, but i'm aware the logistics of multiple contributors could present a problem.

b) Provide a temporary home for the server if the need arises, although I would point out i'm a ukfag, so this might not be the best solution in the short term, given that most of the players on the servers seem to be American.

I have the time and a fast spare machine to host the server on, but since my connection probably doesn't match up to Hokey's, and i'm on the other side of the world, I guess I wouldn't be the best choice to host.

I don't want our world to die :'(

 

[L3N!N]

I'd be more than willing to put forth $5, and if I'm particularly merry, possibly $15.

 

[ríomhaire]

Could you post some figures for what people are charging?

 

[Raziaar]

The one place I know about right now, without having done more research into obscure others... is this place.

http://main.jestservers.com/2010-05/minecraft-dedicated-servers/



This is their pricing.

https://www.jestservers.com/panel/cart.php?gid=47

Anywhere from $45-130 monthly, which is sickening.

 

[kazsymonds]

Also, any way to tell the size of the whitelist currently?

I guess we'll need a poll to find out who will continue to play if they have to pay for it.

The only thing I could really find around was this http://servercraft.co/page3/page3.html

 

[YROC]

$45 - reasonable

$130 - "i'm out"

 

[Raziaar]

Honestly... if we had people donating to keep the server running, I don't see the merit in giving any sort of benefit to the donors. We wouldn't want people to donate so they can get something... they'd donate simply because they like the server and want to keep playing on it.

And donations also wouldn't be mandatory in such a scenario.

I'm not stating these things as facts... just my personal opinions.

$45 - reasonable

$130 - "i'm out"

Yeah, see... that's what I'm talking about. 130 is just... holy shit what the ****. And it's simply a matter of 1-3 gigs.

That's literally all that seems to be separating the plans, how many gigs the server has. 1-3.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Why the hell are they charging $130 for 3 gigs? That's a total ripoff! Somebody ask on the MineCraft Community Forums?

 

[AtomicSpark]

I proposed two plans to Hokey earlier today. The first one was that I would temporarly (or not) host the server from home. I don't know what the bandwidth requirements are for Minecraft and I can't find an authoritative, serious answer by searching the Minecraft forums. I have a server that I'm currently not using right now and that would be perfect for running Minecraft, provided that my home bandwidth can keep up.

However, if the bandwidth requirements causes too much lag, another option would be to add Minecraft to the VPS that I'm renting for Halflife2.net. Currently I'm hosting two Garry's Mod servers from it. If we go this route, it would cost an extra $20/month minimum to meet the requirements that Minecraft needs.

 

[Krynn72]

I'd also offer one of my computers as a server, but I have Comcast and im stuck with their service with a bandwidth cap that I get relatively close too every month as is. Unfortunately, being unemployed also means I can't justify spending money on something like this either. I'm afraid that i'm a mooch until I start having a real income.

 

[lord_raken]

Hopefully one day Notch will set up Minecraft servers either for free or minimal cost, but that could be a ways away.

If it came down to it I suppose I could contribute but I honestly can't say how regular that would be.

Idea: If Notch starts looking for a multiplayer community to test things with perhaps we could make a deal where he could host the server and we Beta stuff for him. I'm not sure if this is smart, feasible, or mutually beneficial but I't might be worth looking into. With a community that loves the game and has a great record of mutual respect and creative collaboration with each other, we could be useful to the future of Minecraft.

@ Atomicspark: That sounds much better than $45 a month. It would also keep the HL2.net community working with a service that the mangers of the site are familiar with.

 

[YROC]

I would like to say that, for the most part, this whole thing is temporary. I plan on getting a new computer - SOMETIME. When I do, i'll make this one a perma server host for minecraft and it won't be a problem at all. We won't have to think about donating money and all that jazz. It's just that, with one computer, I can only do so much at a time because of hardware limits. I can either host minecraft or play what I want to play. If I decide to play a game of CoD (I know you guys hate it ) or anything that requires alot of power, then Minecraft will simply not run well for anyone.

So, I hope to get this problem sorted sometime soon. Oh, and like Raziaar mention, I plan on keeping the server going until we can find a replacement. Will also continue to backup the saves and upload the world for renders.

 

[Vegeta897]

Notch can use his million dollars to set up free ad-supported servers. He'd gain tons of players and so many ****ing companies would want to advertise in minecraft servers, he'd make a fortune all over again.

And then the microtransactions....

No, I'm just kidding. That's too much.

 

[kazsymonds]

Notch can use his million dollars to set up free ad-supported servers. He'd gain tons of players and so many ****ing companies would want to advertise in minecraft servers, he'd make a fortune all over again.

And then the microtransactions....

No, I'm just kidding. That's too much.

Hats.

 

[Mr. Djees]

Just bought a VPS from hazenet.co.uk after researching on the minecraft forums for 5 minutes.

Give me a couple of days to setup and test things out and we can make the switch to that.

 

[MorganFreeman911]

Do we know you?

 

[Mr. Djees]

Not that much I guess, but me and a couple of friends were talking about getting a VPS for some low-end stuff and you guys were in this predicament so I though I could kill 2 birds with one stone. I do spend a lot of time on the server building shit after all, just givin back.

 

[Raziaar]

Just bought a VPS from hazenet.co.uk after researching on the minecraft forums for 5 minutes.

Give me a couple of days to setup and test things out and we can make the switch to that.

Uhh... don't get butthurt if we don't end up going that route.

Like I said, we've just started the discussion on what we might do, and running out and buying something and expecting us to go that route is unfair.

Though as you said, your reason for getting it is for something entirely different(I hope).

 

[Mr. Djees]

I'll be running some clan tools on it, it's an offer anyway.

 

[Raziaar]

And we shall take it into consideration. Thank you. Was just pointing out that you saying you're going to get stuff set up for us to move over is a bit presumptuous.

 

[Ennui]

I recognize Djees, he just posts almost never.

The real issue I see here is that a proper VPS that suits our server needs is going to be expensive. A Hazenet server would be fine for a small group of players, but we often have as many as 15 players at once, as well as heavy consistent traffic (= lots of bandwidth and RAM usage).

VPS is rather expensive to begin with and Minecraft is quite a resource hog (especially bandwidth and RAM but also CPU in some situations e.g. world generation) so we're going to need 500-1000gb of bandwidth a month and I'd say at least 1gb of ded. RAM.

Lots of money D:

 

[kazsymonds]

What kind of broadband connection would be required if someone were to host on a spare machine?

 

[Ennui]

Upload is most important. I've heard different numbers for how much average upload per second a player consumes, but I'd say we would need someone with at least 1mb/s upload to host the server, and no bandwidth cap (as a server with as many players as ours will use huge amounts of bandwidth running 24/7).

The higher the upload speed the better. FIOS or a T1/T3 line would be ideal, but someone with a strong cable connection would work fine too.

 

[Vegeta897]

Ennui please denote your bandwidth properly, you should capitalize the B to stand for bytes. Internet speeds are often given in bits, so it's very misleading to write 1mb. But I know you meant 1MB because of the context. 1 megabit would only be like 125kb/s, which isn't very much for server hosting.

Unless I'm mistaken and that actually is enough? D:

 

[ríomhaire]

Technically 1mbps would be one byte every two hours or so I think.

 

[Raziaar]

What kind of broadband connection would be required if someone were to host on a spare machine?

I think hokey has the best speed on the entire forum, at least among hl2.netters playing minecraft which is the main reason I think he volunteered to do it.

The problem I see with using another spare machine that an individual is running is that they'll probably inevitably feel the same time drain burnout that Hokey did. I mean... it's a LOT of a work, a LOT of a responsibility.

 

[Raziaar]

Latest thing I'm checking out right now is:

www.mynecraft.com

Read about it on the official forums, though I think it was self advertised.

Maybe if some of you guys could help me do a little bit of research and see what the viability of this is. It's like $40 a month for 24 players, $45 a month for 32 players.

Not sure what their bandwidth and RAM capabilities are for those numbers... going to e-mail them.

 

[YROC]

Holy hell, that looks legit. Did they just put that up or something?

 

[Raziaar]

Honestly I have no idea. I'm contacting them and seeing what their capabilities are for bandwidth and RAM, because all I can see right now are prices for player count which doesn't really tell me about the back end that supports that type of data transfer.

If they are legit, it is a plus in the sense that they are dedicated to minecraft, and thus would know what it takes to run those types of servers.


EDIT:

Wow... they(he) responded immediately.


Our 32 slot servers have 4GB or RAM, and a quad core Xeon processor. Our 24 slots servers have 2GB of RAM, and the same processor.

We don't accept PayPal because it's not FDIC insured, and they can freeze it anytime they want. There are no exceptions to the Paypal rule. However, you could get a PayPal debit card, and use that.

Let me know.

Thanks,
Steve


To be honest... I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of testing the waters with these guys. 4 gigs of ram... quad core. That's quite nice.

The pricing is the same as that jestservers or whatever it was that was only offering 1 gig of ram... and like $120 for 3 gigs, which is ridiculous.




EDIT:

Tim,

The Rackspace backbone has redundant OC fiber connections. It's rated the beat connection in the US.

The servers bandwidth is not throttle in any way, and each machine has dual gigabit NICs. Bandwidth will not be an issue. Nor will support.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks,
Steve

 

[Vegeta897]

40 a month sounds decent. That's like less than $2/slot. And we really don't need more than 24 slots.

 

[Warped]

I can afford $2 a month! lol

 

[Bad^Hat]

If you guys decide to go with that, EvilNic and I would most likely be happy to contribute. God knows she's more invested in the server now than I am. D:

 

[Raziaar]

Alright. Here's our options so far. Correct me if I've missed a thing or two.

Djees has a VPS he's offering for us.
Atomic is also offering a VPS, the one used by the hl2.net gmod servers, like TTT.
Krynn has a spare computer he's offering to host.
Jest Servers has a service available for about 45-100+ American currency a month.
Mynecraft.com hosting which is offering about 2 gigs for 24 players and 4 gigs with 32 players for 40 and 45 a month respectively.


To be honest... in my opinion personal computers need to go out the window, because they become time consuming and a headache for the people hosting them, for a variety of reasons. Bandwidth, RAM, electricity, etc. Virtual Private Servers while a viable option, might not be able to provide us with the type of server we need to host a currently intensively ram and bandwidth hungry service such as minecraft. We're talking anywhere from 1-4 gigs probably(as we expand... it currently uses 1 gig), with 5-15gb of bandwidth usage per day with our typical 10 person traffic.

Jest servers is prohibitively expensive for what they're offering. Their prices scale dramatically for only additional amounts of RAM.

Mynecraft is what I'm personally leaning towards right now, because their prices are reasonable, their ram is good for the price, and they're dedicated to minecraft hosting which would give them an idea of what kind of resources minecraft requires. The only problem I see right now with Mynecraft is they seem to be relatively new, so I can't find a whole lot of information about them. There's a chance they could just be a scam site, but who knows. They also don't accept paypal which is an issue, but their reasoning for it is a good one.

 

[kazsymonds]

That Mynecraft looks good IMO.

What kind of arrangement will be made with the cost of the server rental? You mentioned a donation basis, but what happens if not enough people donate? Would we have a core of contributors that get a guaranteed slot, and then the rest are on a donation basis?

 

[YROC]

I don't really think mynecraft is a scam. In the link below, they're (someone is) advertising it. If I had the money at the moment, I would go ahead and do it, but I don't. ;(

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10073941

 

[Raziaar]

That Mynecraft looks good IMO.

What kind of arrangement will be made with the cost of the server rental? You mentioned a donation basis, but what happens if not enough people donate? Would we have a core of contributors that get a guaranteed slot, and then the rest are on a donation basis?

Well... We'll have to figure out who WANTS to donate... and how much they want to donate per month. Then we'll have to get some sort of payment system set up that can be utilized... maybe a paypal debit card or something since that website doesn't accept paypal.

Then we could all donate in. That would allow us to figure out if we'll have enough or not, from a thread discussing it where people realistically post up how much they want(key word here is 'want') to donate to keep the server operational.

I don't really think mynecraft is a scam. In the link below, they're (someone is) advertising it. If I had the money at the moment, I would go ahead and do it, but I don't. ;(

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10073941

Well if it ends up being what we want to do, we'll be able to get something working to acquire it.