Sex (and not just to get your attention, either)

[TheOneFreeMan]

Without going into boring artsy-fartsy detail, my final-year dissertation is about sexual content in video games. Namely why there isn't any, when films can go as far as full-on unsimulated sex and have it deemed to be "art".

Seriously, this is video games. Potentially we've got the tools to produce meaningful narrative moments in a whole new way. Freedom of choice is one of the things which makes me like video games more than films as a medium for story, and this whole stigma about including artful nudity and sexual content is holding us back from some pretty exciting progression in game development.

Heavy Rain almost went down the path, with its "press these buttons to progress this sex scene" part (am I the only one who thought that turning the removal of a bra into a challenge was in some way meant to mimic reality?); the act of having a part in controlling something can make you feel more involved, more immersed. I'm not saying that this is something we need to see in loads of games, but to have it be an option just like arthouse films are an option in the film world would be nice. I can look at a sex scene in an artistic movie without it being for titilation ... why not in games?

Anyways, just thought it'd be interesting to get some opinions. Can sex ever be a part of games without it being porn? Is portraying sex with animated characters just weird and wrong altogether? Thoughts?

 

[Vegeta897]

No sex in video games? Have you ever heard of a little country called Japan?

 

[Remus]

Can sex ever be a part of games without it being porn?

Honestly? No, I don't think so. Extended from that, most game developers avoid including sex scenes in their games because of that preconceived notion: "video games are for kids". Which derails the topic to game censorship...

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

Honestly? No, I don't think so. Extended from that, most game developers avoid including sex scenes in their games because of that preconceived notion: "video games are for kids". Which derails the topic to game censorship...

That's basically hit the nail on the subtext of the dissertation: that the misconception that games are just for kids is a short-term cultural thing which will die out as the next generation takes over.

But for now, my question is that if you don't think it's possible ... why not? What is it that makes games so different to films and literature in this regard?

 

[Laivasse]

It's a good question. A couple of reasons spring to my mind. The first is lack of sophistication in storytelling. Most games still do a clumsy job of depicting even non-sexual interpersonal relationships, so they're always going to struggle with a meaningful or worthwhile portrayal of the sex act itself. There are sexy games to be found, if a consumer is willing to dig around among products devoted solely to tawdry titillation, but Half Life 2, for example, is better at depicting dystopian oppression than the average sex game is at depicting sex. This lack of sophistication is itself wrapped up in several root causes. I think the most significant is the fact that our technology is not at a level where developers can realistically portray whatever kind of scene they would like to; should a developer create an almost photorealistic scene of action or emotion in a game, it is more likely to win plaudits for the fact that it it approaches photorealism, rather than the fact that it possesses artistic merit. As such, provocative stories have tended to take a back seat to provocative visuals, and the sight of a couple of naked mannequins grinding against eachother in the heart of the uncanny valley is not very provocative to a gamer. Another reason for lack of a sophisticated storyline (in which a believable sex scene can occur) is that many gamers simply don't seek an immersive narrative in their gaming, and this is reflected in sales and developmental goals.

Another reason for the lack of sex in games, even for consumers who might accept it without prejudice, is a lack of artistic courage in general among game developers. I haven't played Heavy Rain, but from what I've heard it sounds like it's bold in several ways. Most games aren't bold. Again, there are several reasons for this, but I think the most significant is the way that non-gamers, including significant portions of the media and politicians, view games. Regardless of the average gaming age, games are usually seen as a childish pursuit. As such, considering the prevalent social mores regarding juvenile consumption of sexual content, there is often a media backlash against any game containing sex, regardless of how they're certified. You also have to consider that even sex in mature-rated films is often seen as gratuitous, so, given the interactive element of gaming, sex in games would perhaps have to be even more sophisticated and justified by the narrative than sex in films, in order to escape being seen as an exploitative inclusion for the purposes of titillation alone.


BTW for the purposes of your dissertation, are you including examples of existing game-sex, such as God of War, The Witcher, GTA (Hot Coffee), *EDIT: ohyeah Mass Effect* and dirty Japanese games? I think you could thrash out a lot of material by discussing how sex works in those examples. (You should also justify their inclusion as examples by discussing their popularity relative to other games, by way of brief mention of sales, etc.)

 

[CptStern]

I agree with laivasse and would like to add that video game characters engaged in sex is about as sexually arousing as watchign paint dry. I'd rather not have to endure these awkward moments that the developers thrust upon gamers. just leave ti be, we dont need sex in games. it's adds nothing to the narrative 99% of the time

 

[Remus]

many gamers simply don't seek an immersive narrative in their gaming.

Yep, I'm like that too. I don't believe a game needs a story in order for it to be good. In my opinion a good game just needs to be fun, which is something today's developers seem to be forgetting in their pursuit of ever more realistic game mechanics, and serious story-lines.

 

[Laivasse]

Tbh I'm completely the opposite. I like serious storylines and lots of emphasis on character. However I accept that a lot of gamers are different, which perhaps accounts for why games like Planescape have performed poorly in the past.

Still, even games like Planescape have been unable to convey their story through a dramatic visual medium, resorting instead to a text-heavy method of conveying small, significant details. Most games don't do things this way, so they have to contend with the technological limitations of graphics.

 

[Quixoticism]

I agree with laivasse and would like to add that video game characters engaged in sex is about as sexually arousing as watchign paint dry. I'd rather not have to endure these awkward moments that the developers thrust upon gamers. just leave ti be, we dont need sex in games. it's adds nothing to the narrative 99% of the time

Can't believe this but I actually agree with you for once. I think games are better off without it.

 

[VirusType2]

Games Rating Board. That's the answer. Games get a hard rating, they don't sell. Games get an adults only rating, stores won't even carry it + controversy and perhaps lawsuits that could put them out of business even if they win. Legal problems are expensive.

 

[Kyorisu]

Sex in TV and Movies bores me to tears, I usually just roll my eyes and go make a sandwich. The last thing I want is an awkward MA15+ (check out Australian ratings you'll get the picture) sex scene in insert game name here.

 

[Krynn72]

They put sex scenes in movies to give something for women to be interested in. Most guys are bored by it, and since gaming is 90% dudes...

 

[VirusType2]

Sex in TV and Movies bores me to tears, I usually just roll my eyes and go make a sandwich. The last thing I want is an awkward MA15+ (check out Australian ratings you'll get the picture) sex scene in insert game name here.

I agree with this. When I'm watching a movie and it has a hot and heavy sex scene, it's always a shitty teen movie. Really awkward when watching a movie with your family when all of the sudden: the skin and the moaning, volume +9 db.

I could appreciate a pure sex game, because that's something that is what it is. It could be kinda cool.

Sex is something that should get your undivided attention, not some diversion or 'sex sells' gimmick.

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

It's a good question. A couple of reasons spring to my mind. The first is lack of sophistication in storytelling. Most games still do a clumsy job of depicting even non-sexual interpersonal relationships, so they're always going to struggle with a meaningful or worthwhile portrayal of the sex act itself. There are sexy games to be found, if a consumer is willing to dig around among products devoted solely to tawdry titillation, but Half Life 2, for example, is better at depicting dystopian oppression than the average sex game is at depicting sex. This lack of sophistication is itself wrapped up in several root causes. I think the most significant is the fact that our technology is not at a level where developers can realistically portray whatever kind of scene they would like to; should a developer create an almost photorealistic scene of action or emotion in a game, it is more likely to win plaudits for the fact that it it approaches photorealism, rather than the fact that it possesses artistic merit. As such, provocative stories have tended to take a back seat to provocative visuals, and the sight of a couple of naked mannequins grinding against eachother in the heart of the uncanny valley is not very provocative to a gamer. Another reason for lack of a sophisticated storyline (in which a believable sex scene can occur) is that many gamers simply don't seek an immersive narrative in their gaming, and this is reflected in sales and developmental goals.

Another reason for the lack of sex in games, even for consumers who might accept it without prejudice, is a lack of artistic courage in general among game developers. I haven't played Heavy Rain, but from what I've heard it sounds like it's bold in several ways. Most games aren't bold. Again, there are several reasons for this, but I think the most significant is the way that non-gamers, including significant portions of the media and politicians, view games. Regardless of the average gaming age, games are usually seen as a childish pursuit. As such, considering the prevalent social mores regarding juvenile consumption of sexual content, there is often a media backlash against any game containing sex, regardless of how they're certified. You also have to consider that even sex in mature-rated films is often seen as gratuitous, so, given the interactive element of gaming, sex in games would perhaps have to be even more sophisticated and justified by the narrative than sex in films, in order to escape being seen as an exploitative inclusion for the purposes of titillation alone.

BTW for the purposes of your dissertation, are you including examples of existing game-sex, such as God of War, The Witcher, GTA (Hot Coffee), *EDIT: ohyeah Mass Effect* and dirty Japanese games? I think you could thrash out a lot of material by discussing how sex works in those examples. (You should also justify their inclusion as examples by discussing their popularity relative to other games, by way of brief mention of sales, etc.)

I agree with you 100% when it comes to the uncanny valley playing a factor. If it looks wrong, it feels wrong. I think we're only just coming to a technological point where we can overcome this, or if we're not ready now then we certainly will traverse that territory at some point.

When it comes to artistic courage in this area, it's a dilemma. In order to make it realistic and avoid all the problems discussed above, you need to put a lot of development resources into it, and big companies aren't courageous enough to do that. In film, it's usually the small independent art-houses who produce the racy, experimental stuff; less production value often amounts to a higher feeling of realism in cinema. In games, the reverse is true, so indie developers have their hands somewhat tied in advancing the boundaries here.

And yes, I've chosen a couple of case studies to focus on in depth: Grand Theft Auto IV (interesting not only because of its popularity for a game including sex, but because its gritty atmosphere and narrative would seem to permit sexual content, yet the game is surprisingly tame in this area compared to the violence, drugs, etc), and Heavy Rain (among numerous reasons to do with proving games' ability for narrative depth, one of the only games to include an interactive sex scene, if you discount the Hot Coffee incident).

I agree with laivasse and would like to add that video game characters engaged in sex is about as sexually arousing as watchign paint dry. I'd rather not have to endure these awkward moments that the developers thrust upon gamers. just leave ti be, we dont need sex in games. it's adds nothing to the narrative 99% of the time

I think that's because including it in games at the moment is done more to give games an "edgy" shock factor rather than for any necessity for plot. And when sex is out of place or gratuitous, it feels tacky and pointless. Same with a lot of movies and TV shows. You can surely name a movie or TV programme where it was warranted and helped the story though?

They put sex scenes in movies to give something for women to be interested in. Most guys are bored by it, and since gaming is 90% dudes...

Then why all the nude mods?

 

[Blackthorn]

A mature depiction of sex doesn't need to show the actual act whatsoever. The tension beforehand, the intimacy and the emotional impact afterwards are the aspects an audience can relate to. The act itself is meaningless within the story unless there's some kind of character reveal within the sex itself, such as abusive or submissive behaviour, but we're a long way from that of course. Two people humping away is going to make audiences feel awkward because it's intrusive in a social context, but if you showed how two people interact lying together post-coitus then there will be an emotional response from the viewer as well as an opportunity to progress the characters considerably. For example, in Heavy Rain Ethan carefully pulls his arm out from Madison when he wakes up later, and you have to be gentle with your movements so you don't disturb her. There was far more impact to performing that gesture than being shown a brief clip of foreplay, like in Mass Effect.

I think what's holding sex back in games, and often in movies, is the reliance on the "sex scene", as if that is the most important part of the experience and the misguided assumption it's what the audience wants to see.

 

[mortiz-Redux]

Seriously awesome choice for a dissertation man, you get to perv at dodgy japanese rape simulator video games under the excuse that you're doing "research", wish I'd thought of that

 

[ríomhaire]

You keep mentioning Heavy Rain but what about Fahrenheit? Same people and also had interactive sex scenes. Of course they were cut in the American version (Indigo Prophecy), which is yet another thing to talk about. Sex scenes were ok for Europe and Japan, but not the States.

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

You keep mentioning Heavy Rain but what about Fahrenheit? Same people and also had interactive sex scenes. Of course they were cut in the American version (Indigo Prophecy), which is yet another thing to talk about. Sex scenes were ok for Europe and Japan, but not the States.

Fahrenheit was my original choice for the case study, but I decided to go with Heavy Rain because it's been more of a success (commerically and practically) for the model of narrative-driven game design that Quantic Dreams obviously are pushing. I'll still probably mention Fahrenheit in some capacity.

 

[Sheepo]

Yep, I'm like that too. I don't believe a game needs a story in order for it to be good. In my opinion a good game just needs to be fun, which is something today's developers seem to be forgetting in their pursuit of ever more realistic game mechanics, and serious story-lines.

While I do love a very good "over the top silly fun" video game, please don't ever try to limit the whole medium to that ever again or you and me will have to fight to the death.

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

A mature depiction of sex doesn't need to show the actual act whatsoever. The tension beforehand, the intimacy and the emotional impact afterwards are the aspects an audience can relate to. The act itself is meaningless within the story unless there's some kind of character reveal within the sex itself, such as abusive or submissive behaviour, but we're a long way from that of course. Two people humping away is going to make audiences feel awkward because it's intrusive in a social context, but if you showed how two people interact lying together post-coitus then there will be an emotional response from the viewer as well as an opportunity to progress the characters considerably. For example, in Heavy Rain Ethan carefully pulls his arm out from Madison when he wakes up later, and you have to be gentle with your movements so you don't disturb her. There was far more impact to performing that gesture than being shown a brief clip of foreplay, like in Mass Effect.

I think what's holding sex back in games, and often in movies, is the reliance on the "sex scene", as if that is the most important part of the experience and the misguided assumption it's what the audience wants to see.

A good point. Sex definitely doesn't have to be explicit, and cases of non-explicit sex where it's contextually correct to do so are still perfectly viable and appropriate. It's important I remember that while I'm writing about pushing boundaries and all.

But there are definitely a lot of situations where character and plot can be skillfully advanced through the portrayal of sex, as you mentioned. I also think the mere performance of the act itself could, with skillful design and writing, create extremely powerful moments. There's a mission in GTA4 which I'm writing about where you've kidnapped the daughter of some wealthy gangster in order to blackmail him. There's no shooting of badguys, no evading the cops, no gameplay challenges at all; you just have to go to the apartment where she's being held, physically beat her up while she's tied to a chair, and then take a photo of her and send it to the father. It stood out for me because while killing and assassinating countless people had been no problem, I was then prompted to beat up a defenceless woman. And I did it. The mission was designed to make me feel uneasy about what I was doing, even though I was playing a game where violence was the main gameplay mechanic, and it worked. It made me think about what I was doing.

I think this same technique could be applied to sexual situations. Sex doesn't just have to be about the fun part in this case; I believe games have the ability to make you think about what you're doing too. The possibilities are intriguing to me.

 

[flamingdts]

The only good reason to have anything related to sex in a video game is if the game kills off the chick (or dude) afterwards, which then makes everyone sentimental.

 

[15357]

This thread reminds me of the romance subplots in the Mass Effect games.

Mass Effect 1's scene was awkward and I cringed.

Mass Effect 2's scene was somewhat hilarious. Of course, I did complete only one (Tali'zorah), so I don't know what the others are like. But this scene was non-explicit and kinda funny, so thankfully didn't cringe.

 

[Remus]

While I do love a very good "over the top silly fun" video game, please don't ever try to limit the whole medium to that ever again or you and me will have to fight to the death.

I don't think you understood me. I wasn't saying that "all games shouldn't have story lines". I was saying that I'm against the mentality that "all games should have story lines".

However I meant that other part. If a game isn't fun it's a failure in my opinion. It doesn't matter how pretty it looks, or how elaborate the story is.

 

[Rizzo]

ITT bunch of fags.

 

[VirusType2]

And that's just the way Rizzo likes it.

 

[Sheepo]

I don't think you understood me. I wasn't saying that "all games shouldn't have story lines". I was saying that I'm against the mentality that "all games should have story lines".

However I meant that other part. If a game isn't fun it's a failure in my opinion. It doesn't matter how pretty it looks, or how elaborate the story is.

Ah, well then I pretty much agree. I don't know about 'all games should be fun', because I think how you define fun can be pretty limiting. There are plenty of games I've played that had great gameplay and kept me enthralled the entire time, but if you asked me to go back and name a strictly fun moment, I'd probably be at a loss.

 

[kupocake]

No sex in video games? Have you ever heard of a little country called Japan?

Japan doesn't have sex in their game software, they have tiny bits of game in their sex software.

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

Japan doesn't have sex in their game software, they have tiny bits of game in their sex software.

I just wrote an entire paragraph on RapeLay. I now feel dirty.

 

[the cow says moo]

I think another problem is the inclusion of females in a game almost solely for titillation. It seems like Developers have always been doing it and it's the reason why most female characters are so busty. There are games that get past this, though, and don't have females that are meant to sexually arouse the players. Yorda in Ico and Alyx Vance in HL2 are especially good examples of this (if you think Alyx is hot, you should get your eyes checked).

A good point. Sex definitely doesn't have to be explicit, and cases of non-explicit sex where it's contextually correct to do so are still perfectly viable and appropriate. It's important I remember that while I'm writing about pushing boundaries and all.

The Mass Effect series does this; shows just enough so you know it happened and then how it plays out with the characters.

It stood out for me because while killing and assassinating countless people had been no problem, I was then prompted to beat up a defenceless woman. And I did it. The mission was designed to make me feel uneasy about what I was doing, even though I was playing a game where violence was the main gameplay mechanic, and it worked. It made me think about what I was doing.

I believe games have the ability to make you think about what you're doing too. The possibilities are intriguing to me.

What you're describing is guilt, which is something Shadow of the Colossus does quite well. The whole point of SotC, much like GTA, is violence. Your objective in the game is only to kill each Colossus, which is entertaining. Yet, it's easy to see that the Colossi are innocent; you're the invader that's come to kill them. And so, when each one falls, you feel a certain amount of guilt and it makes you question your motives in the game. It makes you think about what you're doing.

 

[Remus]

What you're describing is guilt, which is something Shadow of the Colossus does quite well. The whole point of SotC, much like GTA, is violence. Your objective in the game is only to kill each Colossus, which is entertaining. Yet, it's easy to see that the Colossi are innocent; you're the invader that's come to kill them. And so, when each one falls, you feel a certain amount of guilt and it makes you question your motives in the game. It makes you think about what you're doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmwB-yz7PxM

Now what have we learned kids?

 

[TheOneFreeMan]

I think another problem is the inclusion of females in a game almost solely for titillation. It seems like Developers have always been doing it and it's the reason why most female characters are so busty. There are games that get past this, though, and don't have females that are meant to sexually arouse the players. Yorda in Ico and Alyx Vance in HL2 are especially good examples of this (if you think Alyx is hot, you should get your eyes checked).

Film studies went through (and is arguably still in) a similar phase. Laura Mulvey wrote in detail about how the role of women within film was as an obstacle to narrative progression, instead of as a vehicle for it. You can't take any film studies course without running into it, in my experience. Of those games that do make strong female characters, they're almost always for titilation, or feature heavily in third-person perspective for the pleasure of the male gaze (like how we're always presented with a nice view of a scantily-clad ass throughout Tomb Raider, for instance).

Alyx Vance is a very good example of the way forward, you're right. I think Faith from Mirror's Edge is the best example I can think of which bucks the trend. Very much non-sexualised, yet not in any way a masculine woman. A shame that the game's plot was such a peripheral part of that game that she's not really given the appearance she deserves.

What you're describing is guilt, which is something Shadow of the Colossus does quite well. The whole point of SotC, much like GTA, is violence. Your objective in the game is only to kill each Colossus, which is entertaining. Yet, it's easy to see that the Colossi are innocent; you're the invader that's come to kill them. And so, when each one falls, you feel a certain amount of guilt and it makes you question your motives in the game. It makes you think about what you're doing.

Yes, I've heard the Shadow of the Colossus example given before as well. I think it was an argument in David Freeman's Creating Emotion in Games. Sounds awesome, would like to own a console just to play that. Strange how all the games which are awesome examples of emotional involvement in games seem to be tied to the Playstations ... Ico, SotC, Heavy Rain ...

I'm not sure whether to call it guilt, as such. It probably is, but the reasons for it are quite convoluted; are we experiencing guilt because of an empathic connection to the characters in the game, or because our actions in the game have made us reflect upon what we as a person are doing in the name of entertainment? I remember a controversial scene in the old movie Henry, Portrait of a Serial Killer which showed the protagonists watching a video of a murder they'd committed, and a shot of them staring at the TV screen watching it. It caused a stir, and was edited out of a lot of releases, because at that moment you realise that you are no better than the serial killers themselves, because you too are watching a serial killer commit murders for entertainment. The GTA4 mission reminds me of that, a little.

I just recieved a copy of Brenda Braithwaite's Sex in Video Games in the post today. I never realised just how deep the Hot Coffee scandal went. And anyone who's seen Hot Coffee in action knows that it's the most unarousing, unexplicit form of sex ever seen on a screen. Weird.