Shadow 'bug' also present in DX: Invisible War

[Ghostdog]

I´m not sure if this has been discussed already, but it seems as if Deus Ex: Invisible War is also troubled by the same kind of shadow rendering problem as CS: Source (and Half-Life 2?).

Image

Presumably the bug is present throughout the game, but this was the first time that I actually noticed it. So, I´m thinking this feature mishap will have little effect on gameplay of coming Source-titles.

 

[coZ]

that is just a map error not a bug in the engine.

 

[Alec_85]

I can't see ANY shadows. Except something dark on the ground. But I can't make out what it is. Also, the player do not cast shadows & neither do the things on the table apparantly. Looks awful. But DE:IW is hardly a next-generation engine/game anyway. If the UE 3.0 has these problems, I'll leace this business

 

[Neutrino]

I can't see ANY shadows. Except something dark on the ground. But I can't make out what it is. Also, the player do not cast shadows & neither do the things on the table apparantly. Looks awful. But DE:IW is hardly a next-generation engine/game anyway. If the UE 3.0 has these problems, I'll leace this business

The Unreal 3 engine won't have the problem because it has a unified lighting model. Engines like Source will always have these problems as far as I know, until they adopt a similar system. For right now using a combination of light maps and dynamic shadows will always produce some errors.

 

[NB.]

The Unreal engine defiantely wouldnt have any issues related to DX:IW anyway, because the lighting engine used in that game was developed entirely by IonStorm, its the same tech they used in Thief : Deadly Shadows.

The bulk of the engine was based on a build of Unreal, but thats as far as it goes.

 

[Alec_85]

Well I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with another problem down the road...

 

[Varsity]

Eugh, the interface!

 

[czrsink]

who cares! HL2 is G_O_L_D F.F.S

 

[Ahnteis]

He's pointing to the small shadow on the ground that is cast by the energy thingy on the table. (Shadow goes through table onto ground.)

 

[noah]

Deus Ex 2: Invisible War (via the Unreal Warfare engine IIRC) uses an entirely different shadow rendering method than Half-Life². DX2, along with Thief III, uses stencil shadows as opposed to the Source engine's use of projected textures. The two really aren't comparable IMO.

 

[Nostradamus]

This will still be in HL2 and will never disapear, live with it.

 

[Alix Mcdean]

Its like apples and oranges. Both fruit(Games) but they're also completely different all around. get it? Apples...oranges...being round...OMGLOLOLOL? Oh come on! Its funny! Chuckle!

*gives himself a sepathetic giggle*
-Alix

 

[Mountain Man]

There are currently two choices:

1) Pre-computed light- and shadow-maps along with their associated problems (i.e. shadow overlap) but great performance; or

2) Full real-time lighting and shadows but at a huge performance hit.

A unified lighting system is great for large outdoor areas...if your computer is from 5 years in the future. Valve picked the best option for today's hardware.

 

[She]

EDIT: whatever...

 

[Alix Mcdean]

Edit: XD

-Alix

 

[Slime]

I think people should stop ranting about the shadow bug, because, as far as I know, it can't really be fixed. If we want to play HL2, we must get used to this very minor problem.

That's the way it is.

 

[CombineHarvester]

I think people should stop ranting about the shadow bug, because, as far as I know, it can't really be fixed. If we want to play HL2, we must get used to this very minor problem.

That's the way it is.

Indeedy! It pains me every time this "bug" issue is raised. Yes, it cold be fixed, but the game would run far slower and everyone would be complaining about the hardware needed to play the game at a decent frame rate.

Oh, and I haven't seen this issue raised in any of the reviews I've read.... indicating it isn't really noticeable unless you are going out of your way to look for it.

 

[Lobster]

The shaddow system there using, is somthing built into dx, its used in alot of games, including alot of other genres which dont neccasarily need dynamic shaddows, like Tiger Woods 2005! which also has the overlap bug, its just the nature of soft shaddows, when your playing, you honestly dont notice it, unless you make it a problem for yourself, in which case, poor you! :O

 

[NB.]

Indeed it does'nt really bother me either, its not a huge problem. I think it might well be fixable in future anyway, so we can wait and see.

And btw, hello noah. You're the guy from Bethesda iirc?

 

[Dagobert]

I can barely play CS: S. This bug makes blood come out of my fingernails and anus.

 

[She]

Yes, it cold be fixed, but the game would run far slower and everyone would be complaining about the hardware needed to play the game at a decent frame rate

no it would not.

 

[Alix Mcdean]

Dago, I must insist you stop playing CS:S and contact a medical asistant imidiately.

-Alix

 

[Ghostdog]

OK. I just wanted to point this out since it looked like a similar problem.
But if it really is only a map issue, that kind of explains why I haven´t noticed it before

Oh, and I never meant to rant about the shadow issue in HL2.

 

[CombineHarvester]

no it would not.

She, no offence, but just GTF. Thank you. And on your way pop into Valve's offices and explain how they can fix their engine without impacting performance. And maybe then I'll view you as something other than an irritating one-trick pony.

 

[kaellinn18]

when your playing, you honestly dont notice it, unless you make it a problem for yourself, in which case, poor you! :O

This is true. I just finished playing through DX:IW (since I finally got a computer that can run it). I even looked to see if the shadow bug existed, but couldn't find it. Obviously it's there, but I just didn't notice. It's not going to affect your gameplay any.

 

[Miker75]

Jesus.. you'd think by the sounds of it that the whole game was spoiled by a damn shadow "bug". I didn't even notice it until I went looking for it on purpose. I was busy doing something else..like.. actually play the game and not piss around looking for small unimportant effects.

People are complaining now about the shadows not reacting correctly, but if Valve were to say "ok.. we'll throw away that code and implement true shadows", then those same people would be complaining how they used to get 60-70 fps on their system and now only get 10-15 and how terrible it is to play.

Get over it already, it's only a bloody shadow...

 

[Xeinon]

Why can´t people understand it´s not a BUG? HL2 dosen´t have dynamic shadows (i.e all objects and walls cast shadows). Thats why objects shadows show on the floor below insted of the shadow from the table or whatever.

 

[Alec_85]

This is my 1000th post here. Thought I should do something special with it. I wish to wash my hands of any hard feelings I might've had about this well-known "bug". I've been a front figure on the subject (well sort of anyway) & I've finally come to the conclusion that it's just ridiculious to whine about it. So if I ever forget this & go on another pointless rampage about it, plz post a link to this thread & kick my *** :thumbs: Deal?

/me washes his hands in soap.

And I suggest everyone else does the same. Okay? How's that for a celebration? :E *Go me*

 

[Demonmerc]

Nobody knows for sure WHY or HOW TO FIX IT except those with access to the lighting source code.

Hey SHE, why don't you download the HL2 source code, fix the lighting problem, and email Valve your fix! I'm sure they wouldn't care that you used the stolen code because you fixed this EGREGIOUS and GLARING bug.

 

[Letters]

I don't even get the shadow "bug"...

I win!

 

[subtlesnake]

For the last time IT IS NOT A BUG!! It's an unavoidable side effect of the shadowing technique they use.

 

[UmbrellaMaster]

HL2 lighting is fairly simplistic. I believe (now I'm not sure if this is correct) that when the shadows of models are being casted, it is from one unified light source (using something like the evironment light from HL1). It is per vertex lighting which means it casts a sort of model from the actual model that looks like a shadow... following me so far? When models are "stacked" I believe the shadow is only made to be cast on the world, not other models. Therefore, the shadow is cast THROUGH the model onto the world and acts like the other model is not there. Phew. I'm pretty sure that's how HL2 handles model lighting at least. Anyone care to tell me what's wrong with my theory (since I'm not a coder and am really just basing this off of what I've heard)?

**Edit** And if you notice, when a character reaches his/her hand up to their face to scratch their nose or something, the shadow that should be cast on their face is not. Yet, it IS cast on the world behind them.

 

[kurtmax_0]

The shaddow system there using, is somthing built into dx, its used in alot of games, including alot of other genres which dont neccasarily need dynamic shaddows, like Tiger Woods 2005! which also has the overlap bug, its just the nature of soft shaddows, when your playing, you honestly dont notice it, unless you make it a problem for yourself, in which case, poor you! :O

Uhm... by dx do you mean DirectX? Because, DirectX (DirectX Graphics actually) has no 'built in' functionality for shadows....

EDIT: On subject: This 'bug' does not bother me, kindof hard to notice when you are actually playing the game....

 

[Alix Mcdean]

She seems to have all the answers ever. Specialy like how its all in 1 or 2 words! Hey She! Mighty knower of all, do tell us how it will not impact performance? You seem to be highly specialized in this field. Do tell! Come on little guy! You can do it!
Wait wait, lemme guess here first. "I cant" ?

Meh.

-Alix

 

[Eon Blue]

Honestly, why the hell does anyone care about shadows ffs.
Go play Doom.

 

[She]

She seems to have all the answers ever. Specialy like how its all in 1 or 2 words! Hey She! Mighty knower of all, do tell us how it will not impact performance? You seem to be highly specialized in this field. Do tell! Come on little guy! You can do it!
Wait wait, lemme guess here first. "I cant" ?

Meh.

-Alix

hahahahahaha..

yes, it will hit on performance..
but you wont need a new GPU or RAMstick to get it running LOL.
Turning on/off Bumpmapping will have greater effect on performance than fixing that shadow thing.

and that ""double shadow/shadow on shadow thing"" ...
if you are a good programmer it would even go PLUS performance.
less pixels = faster performance.

 

[kaellinn18]

hahahahahaha..

yes, it will hit on performance..
but you wont need a new GPU or RAMstick to get it running LOL.
Turning on/off Bumpmapping will have greater effect on performance than fixing that shadow thing.

and that ""double shadow/shadow on shadow thing"" ...
if you are a good programmer it would even go PLUS performance.
less pixels = faster performance.

First off, there's always the same number of pixels. Now I'm not sure how many passes that the Source engine makes to determine pixel color (I'm pretty sure it depends on what graphics card you're running), but fixing this shadow bug wouldn't change a thing in terms of the number of passes needed, just in terms of adding in the actual color. The only thing affecting performance would be the checks that would need to be implemented to determine if shadow needs to be applied (which would DECREASE performance, never increase). I've heard talk that this "bug" is a map design error, and not an engine error. I'm not sure which is true, but there's no way fixing it would ever increase performance.

 

[Asuka]

I dont see anythign wrong in that screenshot. :/

 

[kaellinn18]

I dont see anythign wrong in that screenshot. :/

The little black spot on the floor to the right of center is the shadow of the energy cell on the table.

 

[She]

First off, there's always the same number of pixels.

no.

but fixing this shadow bug wouldn't change a thing in terms of the number of passes needed, just in terms of adding in the actual color.

or destory them?



this is very simplified.. ATTACHMENT: