Should Turkey join the EU?

[Cons Himself]

There has been a lot of talk about the EU recently, and as such I thought we could discuss this issue. As a person who holds UK/Cypriot dual-citizenship, with a strong Greek heritage, I say that Turkey should be admitted into the EU when:

a. They admit and apologise and make reparations for the Armenian holocaust they perpetrated before/during WW1.
b. They remove their occupying army from Cyprus and make reparations for an illegal invasion and occupation which persists to this day.
c. They agree to recognise the Republic of Cyprus - a full and sovereign member of the EU.
d. They adjust their political system so that their military is no longer involved with major decisions - it is an insult to democracy and the ideals of Europe.
e. They clean up their human rights record with respect to their continued oppression and murder of the Kurds in the east of Turkey.

Since Turkey is not civilised enough to achieve even one of these, I guess they will never be able to join the EU. Thank God for that.

 

[The Monkey]

lol...

I don't think they're ready for it yet, but if they keep improvning the way they are, they might be able to join quite soon.

 

[Cons Himself]

Without withdrawing their forces from Cyprus, they can join you mean?

 

[el Chi]

Without withdrawing their forces from Cyprus, they can join you mean?

Be realistic - they're not about to withdraw their troops from Cyprus, nor are they likely to do so for a very long time, nor are they going to do it to get into the EU.

I hope they DO improve their human rights and I hope they can be let into the EU, but their presence in Cyprus should not be a realistic barrier on their inclusion.

 

[The Monkey]

I didn't mean that you should dig up the old thread, I just said that There was already a thread about it. But since it was so, it was right to start a new one.

 

[Gray Fox]

There has been a lot of talk about the EU recently, and as such I thought we could discuss this issue. As a person who holds UK/Cypriot dual-citizenship, with a strong Greek heritage, I say that Turkey should be admitted into the EU when:

a. They admit and apologise and make reparations for the Armenian holocaust they perpetrated before/during WW1.
b. They remove their occupying army from Cyprus and make reparations for an illegal invasion and occupation which persists to this day.
c. They agree to recognise the Republic of Cyprus - a full and sovereign member of the EU.
d. They adjust their political system so that their military is no longer involved with major decisions - it is an insult to democracy and the ideals of Europe.
e. They clean up their human rights record with respect to their continued oppression and murder of the Kurds in the east of Turkey.

Since Turkey is not civilised enough to achieve even one of these, I guess they will never be able to join the EU. Thank God for that.

If turkye dies "d"they would be even more ****ed, then the fundies would take over, and the same thing that happend to afghanistan and Iran would happen to turkey.

 

[The Monkey]

The last thing we need is a muslim extremist state in the EU, so as of today, they mustn't join. Ukraine on the other hand... they're turning into a democracy, and if all goes well, I really think that they are suitable for the EU.

 

[Cons Himself]

Be realistic - they're not about to withdraw their troops from Cyprus, nor are they likely to do so for a very long time, nor are they going to do it to get into the EU.

I hope they DO improve their human rights and I hope they can be let into the EU, but their presence in Cyprus should not be a realistic barrier on their inclusion.

Be realistic - how can the EU function while one member state illegally occupies another by force, their armies face each other over a fortified demarcation line, and the last divided city in Europe.

My family's home and land was stolen from them by a corrupt, evil Turkish regime, who still occupy it illegally. British citizens have bought many of these properties illegally stolen from their rightful owners. People like that disgust me.

It seems the British in particular are very much in favour of Turkey joining, but then the UK has always screwed over Cyprus in the past, so why should they stop now? Aise from the British - the West European population in general is very much against Turkey joining the EU so I dont see that happening for a very long time to come - especially now that the Constitution is in a mess. Thank God

 

[Kangy]

Yeah, until they get out of Cyprus, I would also refuse to accept their entrance and membership of the EU. There are many families who went through the same as Cons' family, and it simply isn't fair to ignore that fact and admit Turkey. I'd just like to see some progress, myself, as Turkey really hasn't made enough effort so far to even look like they want to slowly get out of there.

 

[Recoil]

Hm, right now our government is in favor of them joining... but with the new one that'll come in autumn, that will change.

 

[Cons Himself]

Yeah, until they get out of Cyprus, I would also refuse to accept their entrance and membership of the EU. There are many families who went through the same as Cons' family, and it simply isn't fair to ignore that fact and admit Turkey. I'd just like to see some progress, myself, as Turkey really hasn't made enough effort so far to even look like they want to slowly get out of there.

Thanks for the support.

It seems Turkey thinks that the world somehow owes them something, even when with every violent action they commit, they show themselves to be unworthy of being treated as a modern, mature nation-state. The Turks need to grow up and realise the world, and more specifically the EU, owes them nothing. America can't tell the EU who they can and cannot admit - its not upto them and has NOTHING to do with them, seeing as how in geopolitical terms, the America continent is an Ocean away. America may turn a blind eye to Turkey's atrocities - it doesnt mean it can force us Europeans to do the same.

 

[KoreBolteR]

the european racists woundnt like it..

i suppose there might be some bad side effects if they joined, but i would like them to join..

anyway the dutch and french have voted against EU constitution.. why should they be the ones to decide for all of us..?

 

[Cons Himself]

This isn't about the consitution.

And some bad side effects? Have you read the thread? Read the documented facts about Turkey's continuing state-sponsored murder against their Kurdish citizens? Their murder and illegal occupation in Cyprus - a sovereign EU member state? Have you rad the history of how the Turks killed 3 million Armenians - adults and children, and have never aknowledged their crimes?

And are you calling me a racist?

 

[JellyWorld]

The last thing we need is a muslim extremist state in the EU, so as of today, they mustn't join. Ukraine on the other hand... they're turning into a democracy, and if all goes well, I really think that they are suitable for the EU.

Turkey is a secular state. I think it would be good for Turkey to join the EU if they settle the problem with Cyprus. Of course the different cultures will pose a problem for European unification, sad to say, multiculturalism has always been and will always pose a threat to the unity of any entity. I think the issue with the Armenian Holocaust is moot, I doubt Britain apologized for attempting to suppress the American Revolution, or the French for Napoleon. Many wars were waged in the past few centuries, few were which were just and even fewer have been apologized for. Just because a country fails to apologize does not make it automatically a bad country, past war crimes are always a sensitive subject for any country. Japan has yet to produce a sincere apology for WWII.

 

[el Chi]

...the same thing that happend to afghanistan...would happen to turkey.

The CIA would help terrorists to push out the Soviets?

 

[Cons Himself]

Turkey is a secular state. I think it would be good for Turkey to join the EU if they settle the problem with Cyprus. Of course the different cultures will pose a problem for European unification, sad to say, multiculturalism has always been and will always pose a threat to the unity of any entity.

Solving the occupation of Cyprus would be a start - but they need to sort out the human rights problem in their own country first. Turkey has a minority of about 15 million Kurds who are treated as second class citizens. The state attacks them with its army and police forces.

And Jellyworld re the Armenian holocaust - we're not talking about crimes committed by soldiers against other soldiers here, or a few instances of violence against a civilian population.

We're talking about a wholescale attempt by one country to wipe out an entire race of people - children included, who were unarmed and did not possess an army. Fortunately the Turks failed, but not before murdering 3 million people.

Ie, were talking about an event which is the equal of the holocaust. Would you ever expect Germnay to not apologise for murdering 6 million Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals and Political Dissidents?

 

[Cons Himself]

The CIA would help terrorists to push out the Soviets?

I think he means that the country have an Islamic style government a la Iran or possibly Afghanistan.

And I said something to you back there.

 

[Gray Fox]

The CIA would help terrorists to push out the Soviets?

No, afghanistan and Iran both had secular ruling sytsems, with a strong presance of an army who made sure it stayed that way, once the army got weakened the extremists took aover. And Like I said the turkish army had to intervine 3 times in teh 20th century to stop that form happening. Tjis is more of a critisizm against what Connie said, because if turkey would become more democratic that would happen. Now if they joined the EU , they might change, you our cultures might become a little more intervined and the extremism might fade away a little, aldo due the economic emprovements. But that still leaves Cyprus.

 

[Cons Himself]

Its a good point Grey Fox, and not one that I wasn't aware of I hasten to add

But I think Democracy is the best form of government, as long as the population is content enough to not turn to extreme parties.

And it also leaves the Armenian and Kurdish questions mate.

 

[Gray Fox]

Its a good point Grey Fox, and not one that I wasn't aware of I hasten to add

But I think Democracy is the best form of government, as long as the population is content enough to not turn to extreme parties.

And it also leaves the Armenian and Kurdish questions mate.

ooops, forgot them