Should underage gamers play M rated games

[CptStern]

I posted this in the hl2 discussion thread but it was a bit off topic. Discuss:


I dont think a 13 year old should play an M rated game ...it's rated "M" for a reason. I've said before I'll say it again ..retailers need to become more strict when it comes to selling games that are meant for a certain age group. Parents also need to take responsibility for what they buy their kids. I personally believe that there many gamers under the age of 18 that can handle mature themes but that's not the point. Fear of censorship is my motivation.

As it stands we're keeping the morality watchdogs at bay with the ESRB but if we continue to have underaged children buying mature games sooner or later something's going to happen and by some freak circumstance games will be blamed. All hell will break loose and public opinion will turn against games which will lead to some form of censorship. Or worse yet developers will, out of some sort of public moral pressure will self-censor in order not to offend or cause controversy

In the end if we dont self-regulate the game industry some other group will ..and that will come in the form of censorship. Religious groups, parent associations, right wing nutjobs have been clamouring to censor video games for years, and all they need is another columbine type tragedy tied to video games to turn the tide of public opinion against the medium. It destroyed the comic book industry in the 50's, sort of hurt the music industry in the 90's and has threatened on many occasions to come after violent games.

Sorry to all of you below the age of 18 but you have to be sacrificed so that games can continue to push the envelope and continue to grow as an art form without fear of the wackos yelling "games are killing our children" ...you'll thank me later

 

[bliink]

Just keep 'em off the voice comm

 

[joule]

Yes. I see no problem in it.
A game serves as entertainment/fun, if it accomplishes that, then I believe that anyone should play it no matter what your age. I don't believe it is age you have to worry about, it is the maturity of the person. What it boils down to is the attitude and type of person that is playing the game.
And yes, the final say should be in the parent/s.

 

[Eg.]

lol, i played resident ecil when i was 8, im fine now.

i got doom3 while im 16, and im still fine.

but if i soot someone, then its the games fault.

i would judge by the child. really id lower the M rating to 16, nowaday we have cable for godsakes

 

[Dr. Freeman]

i voted no for the same reasons Stern as stated.
it just doesn't make any sense to have kids playing this M rated games and then have parents turn around and file complaints at the censor board (or whatever its called).

and u know what? my parents did not buy me M rated games.. i only started playing them when i was older so i don't and won't understand why other kids should be able to play said M rated games.

 

[Prince of China]

I started playing when I was 9.
I sucked at them, but still...

 

[UmbrellaMaster]

Personally I think it's the parents decision. Up until the kid is the age that the rating applies to, I really think the parents should watch what their kids are doing.

I don't really think I'd want my 8 year old (theoretical, since I dont have kids nor will I for a while) playing Soldier of Fortune 2, or Leisure Suit Larry. Perhaps Grand Theft Auto as well. I personally got to play all the M rated games I ever wanted, but whatever.

Good parents know what the heck their kids are doing and actually care about it. Just my opinion at least.

*puts on flame resistant suit*

 

[Prince of China]

If I had children, I would let them play 'M' rated games. But only if they get good grades and are athletic.
Well, not necessarily athletic. They would also have to show me they can tell the difference from video games and real and not play video games, of any kind, 24/7.

 

[Neutrino]

In a perfect world I think it should be up to the parents. However, since many parents don't seem to be up to the task of watching over their children this doesn't always work. I do agree that retailers need to be more stict though. If a game is rated as 17 and above they should only sell it to kids who are 17 and above, period.

But I don't really know what a good solution is. About the only thing I can do about it is make sure when I have a kid that they only play M rated games when I think they are mature enough for it.

I would not let my ten year old play them, that's for sure. I probably wouldn't even consider it until they were around 13. Then it would depend on what exactly the game was because there are some M rated games that aren't all that bad and there are some that are really sick.

It's not that I think letting my kid play M rated games would turn them into a killer or something. But I do not think some material is appropriate for children and it can have a negative impact on their development. I don't want movies and games raising my child. I'll do that myself.

 

[Neutrino]

i mean i bet you believe 13 year olds shouldn't watch porn either, b/c it's "evil" :x

*warning last part was half joke, you decide what half*

That just made me think of something kind of interesting. I think the kids of the next generation are going to be in for a bit different experience than kids of this generation when it comes to hiding things like porn and other stuff from their parents.

Kid's today have an advantage as they are often more computer savvy than their parents. But when those kids have their own kids it might be a different story, heh.

 

[Cole]

I think any sane person that knows games arn't real should be able to play. Personally my parents don't care what I play.

I also think that there might me more deaths if someone took the games away. I think just from that, tons of kids would go on a killing rampage or kill themselves. So all in all I think games lower the death rate against what it would be if you took them away.
Because taking games away from the gamer..has very bad withdrawal things..such as killing people\self.

 

[Neutrino]

Because taking games away from the gamer..has very bad withdrawal things..such as killing people\self.

Hmm, kind of like taking drugs away from addicts?

 

[CptStern]

That just made me think of something kind of interesting. I think the kids of the next generation are going to be in for a bit different experience than kids of this generation when it comes to hiding things like porn and other stuff from their parents.

Kid's today have an advantage as they are often more computer savvy than their parents. But when those kids have their own kids it might be a different story, heh.

but what about those of us who took to computers early on and are now parents ...need I fear my son will pwn me before he's 5?

 

[UmbrellaMaster]

I think the kids of the next generation are going to be in for a bit different experience than kids of this generation when it comes to hiding things like porn and other stuff from their parents.

I also wonder how kids will grow up with the new super ultra violent/pointless games *cough*Postal 2*cough* that some developers choose to make for shock value. I mean, even CS: S is pretty violent compared to what I grew up with.

The violence I saw when I was young equalled cheap war flicks and Mario jumping on Koopa heads. Now it's GTA, Soldier of Fortune, etc etc. I'm not saying it will drive kids to kill people, I'm just saying that I base my classic gaming experiences to the innocent days of Mario 1 and 3 and smile at those times when I "grew up" with games and gaming graphics.

Now kids are going to be looking at games like Morrowind, Counter-Strike and the like. There will be no "growing up" with the games. Graphics are already being maxed to the extreme every day now, and slowly the line between photorealism and game images is blurring. I find it a bit sad that kids of nowadays will be looking back on Pokemon games and Counter-Strike the same way I looked back on Mario 1 and Super Punch Out.

Maybe I'm just too nostalgic.

 

[CptStern]

guys I think some of you are thinking in terms of what you personally feel ...try to make a judgement based on what you think is best for the industry ...maybe I should have added a "drop the ESRB" to the poll

 

[UmbrellaMaster]

Well, the movie industry seems to be going strong, and their rating system is enforced much more often than gaming ones are. Not as often as the system means for it to be used, but much much more than the ESRB ever is.

At some point I believe it will be enforced, then all younguns will be playing whatever their parents buy them... or finding ways around the system.

 

[Neutrino]

guys I think some of you are thinking in terms of what you personally feel ...try to make a judgement based on what you think is best for the industry ...maybe I should have added a "drop the ESRB" to the poll

Hmm, I did talk more about how I feel about it, but that is also what I think about the industry. I think parents should make the ultimate decision, but because many cannot or do not want to do that, retailers should be made to strictly enforce age ratings. This makes it so kids cannot buy the games themselves, but if their parent thinks it's alright they can get around the system.


About this poll, I'd be curious to know how old people are that voted: "Yes I can judge if I can handle the material no matter how old I am." I'm betting that most are under the legal age to buy M rated games. I don't know for sure, but I just think you see things very differently when you think of the question in light of having your own kids rather than being a kid. In other words I wonder if younger people will tend to think of themselves when they vote and older people will tend to think of their future children when they vote. I don't know, just a thought.

 

[CptStern]

games have come under fire before ..the ESRB was created by Senator Joe Lieberman to rate games ..here's an interesting read:

"In May 2002, US Representative Joe Baca (D-Calif.) worked to change that by proposing a bill to Congress that would make selling or renting video games to minors a federal crime. The bill was aptly named the Protect Children from Video Game Sex and Violence Act of 2003. The fines would run about $1,000 the first time and up to $5,000 and jail time for repeated offences. Baca's office produced a press release, in which he pleaded for parental support--the hard way: "Do you really want your kids assuming the role of a mass murderer or a carjacker while you are away at work?"

 

[bam23]

I'm only 14. I have no problem with underage gamers playing games as long as they don't whine in their annoying voices over the mic, or whine at all for that matter.

 

[Mac]

I played doom2 when i was about 9 years old

scared the crap out of me, but in no way did it affect me adversely.

Games should never be at fault. it is the person at fault, blaming games is useless, and just a way for people to find closure to senseless crimes.

 

[Mac]

guys I think some of you are thinking in terms of what you personally feel ...try to make a judgement based on what you think is best for the industry ...maybe I should have added a "drop the ESRB" to the poll

considering a large part of gamers are under the age of 18, i doubt this would help the industry more than hurt it.

 

[CptStern]

Hmm, I did talk more about how I feel about it, but that is also what I think about the industry.

you're a "given". I think I know you well enough to know that you know what I'm talking about ..know what I mean?

About this poll, I'd be curious to know how old people are that voted: "Yes I can judge if I can handle the material no matter how old I am." I'm betting that most are under the legal age to buy M rated games. I don't know for sure, but I just think you see things very differently when you think of the question in light of having your own kids rather than being a kid. In other words I wonder if younger people will tend to think of themselves when they vote and older people will tend to think of their future children when they vote. I don't know, just a thought.

ya the poll is too limited ...just cant fit all the different variables, this issue is too big. I guess that's why peeps should elaborate and post why they voted they way they did

 

[CptStern]

considering a large part of gamers are under the age of 18, i doubt this would help the industry more than hurt it.

that's not entirely true ..I think each genre has different age demographics ..how many kids would play a rts in comparison to adults?

 

[johnnypoopoopant]

i say parents handle it all

 

[UmbrellaMaster]

Well I'm 19, I've been playing games since as long as I can remember. M rated games as soon as they came out and I turned out fine yadda yadda blah blah.

I voted for let the parents decide. Should be their decision, and I highly doubt that will hurt the game industry. Kids will still line up to buy M games, just with their parents in tow.

Parents should know what their kids are playing. Period.

 

[Neutrino]

you're a "given". I think I know you well enough to know that you know what I'm talking about ..know what I mean?

Yep, I know that you know that I know what your talking about.:rolling: Just wanted explain myself a bit better.

You know?

 

[CptStern]

Yep, I know that you know that I know what your talking about.:rolling: Just wanted explain myself a bit better.

You know?

I .....think so

 

[Dr. Freeman]

but what about those of us who took to computers early on and are now parents ...need I fear my son will pwn me before he's 5?

/me cues Star Wars music :E

I voted for let the parents decide. Should be their decision, and I highly doubt that will hurt the game industry. Kids will still line up to buy M games, just with their parents in tow.

Parents should know what their kids are playing. Period.

aight.. don't think i am picking on u by asking this.. just trying to have a meaningful discussion..

what happens when a parent buys (lets say GTA:SA for this example) a game for his 12 year old son and then one day sees said son playing this game and promptly stops him, takes away the game, and afterwards files a complaint with the local censor board.

who is at fault here?
RockStar games?
the ESRB rating pple?
perhaps it was the censor board? because it couldn't have been the parent, could it?

okay, nevermind whos at fault in this scenerio, tell me, if enough complaints get filed against this particular game, who in the end stands to lose profit? the game developer.. right? yet this developer followed the rules and guidelines set by the government and have done everything they can to avoid such situations.

see the problem with letting parents decide?
there was a hoopla surrounding Doom3's release about 1-2 weeks before the actual release day.. alot of parents were lobbying to get this game cancelled.. there was a thread in this very forum about it.

some parents may be able to make good decisions as far as games go, but some won't.. and thats the problem with letting parents decide.

 

[Pressure]

Just keep 'em off the voice comm

Agreed

 

[HeWasOnly3]

Same here

 

[Kyorisu]

Sorry to all of you below the age of 18 but you have to be sacrificed so that games can continue to push the envelope and continue to grow as an art form without fear of the wackos yelling "games are killing our children" ...you'll thank me later

Don't be sorry for me laddy there is no such thing as an R rating for games here in Australia.

Doom 3 M15
GTA San Andreas M15
Half-Life 2 M15

I don't hear on the news about mad teenagers going around killing people now do I? Incidents like you mention happen very rarely and are usually dismissed as totaly paranoia.

btw what proof does anyone have of games causing problems? infact it appears quite the obvious. Games allow people to release stress and have a good time etc.

So one wacko kills a few people whoopy. There are enough gaming people in the world to counteract these so called 'Parents'

 

[Homer]

Where is the "no, because they are to young to be seeing some of the stuff in M games" option?

 

[Lanthanide]

considering a large part of gamers are under the age of 18, i doubt this would help the industry more than hurt it.

A very large part is, however it is no longer the largest portion of the demographic. I believe 18-25 is the largest, followed by under 18 and then 25-35. This is because all the people who started playing games when they were children have continued to play games, as well as getting new converts in.

I suspect as families (particularly in non-USA countries) become more affluent (or effluent as Kim would say the demographic will turn back the other way with more families being able to afford consoles/PCs so more kids playing games.

I voted "up to parents", although on second thought I probably should have voted that stores control it. However it is part of both.

It is -definately- up to the parents, if they are responsible, to keep track of what sorts of entertainment their children are accessing, and to discuss this with them frequently to ensure they are not being adversely affected and that they can tell the difference between fantasy and reality and why it is bad to do those sorts of things in every day life etc.

However, I know, as someone else posted earlier, that not all parents are as responsible as they should be, in which case the best method is definately for the stores to screen customers - that way if a parent is happy for their child to play a game, they can purchase it, or be present while their child purchases it.

I think R18 (is it really R18? I thought the ESRB was a recommended 17+) is a bit high as a rating - there should be an R16 or 15 option.

The ESRB rating system right now is laughable anyway, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[XBORGZORZ]

The ESRB is doing a fine job rating games. Mostly it is a reference guide for the parents that actualy care for the games their children are playing.
Games on the other hand are becoming as popular as movies, gone are the days when only kids would be interested in computer and console games. That being said, the industry will come to a point (just like the movie industry) where a small rating, equal to PG13 for movies, is going to be the standard for titles. EA games is doing it right now.
Unfortunately that limits the devolpers creativity, many violent titles are having dificulties finding some company to publish them...
Do you honestly think that GTA would sell all those copies if the game was as realistic in terms of game play and graphics as HL2 for example?

So in conclusion, I cant decide... For the industry it can be good, but on the other hand it will kill small devs with crazy ideas.
Parents though should defenately have a system that informs them if a game is suitable for their children.

 

[Kyorisu]

Parents though should defenately have a system that informs them if a game is suitable for their children.

Like a big skull and crossbones on the box?

 

[XBORGZORZ]

Like a big skull and crossbones on the box?

LOL!!!
Nah, just a biohazard sticker covering up the front and back of the box!!!
Intoxicating the minds of our children!!!

 

[Asuka]

Yes I can judge if I can handle the material no matter how old I am

Its hilarious when someones parents say. You cant play M rated games because i read they can make you kill people. Got to love that.

 

[CptStern]

That being said, the industry will come to a point (just like the movie industry) where a small rating, equal to PG13 for movies, is going to be the standard for titles. EA games is doing it right now.
Unfortunately that limits the devolpers creativity, many violent titles are having dificulties finding some company to publish them....

yes but the movie industry is stifled by the rating system as the content of a movie is geared towards a certain rating. Directors often have to cut scenes in order to get a certain rating ..it's self-censorship. The byproduct of this is that people not directly involved with the creative process have final say in its outcome. Gaming is headed in the same direction.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

yes but the movie industry is stifled by the rating system as the content of a movie is geared towards a certain rating. Directors often have to cut scenes in order to get a certain rating ..it's self-censorship. The byproduct of this is that people not directly involved with the creative process have final say in its outcome. Gaming is headed in the same direction.

yeah and the main problem causing this is parents who buy games for their kids without researching what type of game it is.. and then have the audacity to turn around and complain to the censor board when the game is clearly marked "M" :|

 

[CptStern]

ya I'm convinced if more parents knew what their kids are playing there'd be a lot less n00bs online