So, What do you guys really think happened?

[Baal]

Since HL2 is finally, officially going to be released this time, over a year later, I figure what's the harm in a little guessing game as to what really happened last year when HL2 was supposed to be released. Even though it is OBVIOUS the game wasn't even close to release.

So what do you guys think? They deliberately lied to us (not that I really care, especially now with the game being released in a few weeks) about it being released on September 30th?

Or..well, I just can't see it being possible, but maybe the Source leak did cause the delay. Or the conspiricy theorist view, Valve intentionally leaked the Source Code etc. to give themselves an excuse to delay the game. Very unlikely though.

Maybe that much is obvious, I just haven't seen a thread about this discussion in a while. I don't want it to turn into a Valve bashing thread, because that is not my intent, I am just curious as to what you guys think happened.

Discuss!

 

[KagePrototype]

I say: it was unfinished.

Or they weren't happy with it and did loads of it again.

I remember Gamespot's upcoming "final hours" article on HL2 will have Gabe 'fessin' up about the delay. I think.

 

[guise]

lombardi happened

:E

 

[f|uke]

They didn't 'lie', as they were talking about the projected future (unless they really knew it woudln't happen, but why would they do that?). And the source leak clearly is not what prevented a 2003 release. I think VALVe simply made a gross error in judgement.

I remember Gamespot's upcoming "final hours" article on HL2 will have Gabe 'fessin' up about the delay. I think.

Sounds intereting.

 

[63]

There is nothing to confess. Valve simply underestimated how much they had done, and how long it would take to complete.

 

[WhiteZero]

Unifinished, definetly. If you heard or saw anything from the full leak, you'd know.

 

[[[LuCkY]]]

Unifinished, definetly. If you heard or saw anything from the full leak, you'd know.

They claimed they the hacker got an old, incomplete alpha build.

 

[rrm]

valve were the more optimistic people in the world last year...

 

[Adios amigos]

They claimed they the hacker got an old, incomplete alpha build.

He did... ive tried it and it sucked... but it made me want the game so much! (It wasent me who dloaded it, it was a friend of mine!)

 

[WhiteZero]

Yeah, but how much could they have possibly added in the <1 month that the build was old? Not alot.

 

[Baal]

I think it was pre-E3, I think probably March 2003ish.

Still though, it was rather incomplete. Even the E3 stuff was incomplete compared to what we have now, which was only a few months from September 30th.

 

[DavE0r]

mmmm i dont think that Source JUST got leaked.. its a bit too...i dont know! ah well, who cares tho we will have it in!!

3 weeks 3 days 9hours 32 minutes and 20seconds as i post this!!

 

[Ari de Verci]

I'd like to get a honest answer from Valve themselves, but it's not going to happen.
If you think they didn't lie - then explain to me, why did they stick to the "Sept. 30, really" line? They kept repeating it until about mid-september. Now, could they really have believed the game could be finished in a week?
Maybe it had something to do with the ATI deal ?

 

[fragShader]

i think it's obvious they massively underestimated the amount of work that needed to be done to get it where they wanted it. they did the same with HL1 (the few months allocated for a complete rewrite ended up taking a whole year)

but as the date drew near, weren't ppl from VALVe were still insisting on the Sept 30th date when others with inside info were adamant the game would be delayed? what was going on there? surely by then VALVe could tell thay had miscalculated?

 

[rrm]

so maps were so ancient that they fitted in an old storyline where Alyx didn't even exist

 

[SFLUFAN]

What a horrible storyline that would've been

 

[cadaveca]

What happened?

DirectX9 and SP2 happened.

 

[fragShader]

What happened?

DirectX9 and SP2 happened.

explain.

 

[cadaveca]

When was DirectX 9 released? Remember that the first BINKs are DX8.1.

when was HL2 supposed to some out this year?april or something? when was SP2 beta released?

 

[PvtRyan]

My thoughts?

HL2 wasn't ready before september 30th and Valve realized that but ATI pushed them to maintain the date so their big launch of the XT series wouldn't go wasted.

I think ATI has a much bigger role in this than most people think.

 

[cadaveca]

My thoughts?

HL2 wasn't ready before september 30th and Valve realized that but ATI pushed them to maintain the date so their big launch of the XT series wouldn't go wasted.

I think ATI has a much bigger role in this than most people think.

I agree... and dx9 plays a role because of your item as well...

 

[Baal]

Yea I think ATI probably does have quite a large role in this whole chain of events.

 

[koopa]

I hadn't heard the ATI 'conspiracy' theory before but it makes a little sense. I don't buy the idea that Valve thought they had about a couple of months left on the project when it was really nearly a year - they've too many experienced people for that to happen. My guess:
* ATI naturally know about HL2 long before we do, since they've probably been in contact with developers/lent kit/etc.
* ATI hear that xmas 2003 (or so) is a planned date. ATI offer boatload of money for HL2 exclusive.
* Valve know it can't be done in that time frame, but take the money. Marketing guys (Lombardi et al) maintain September date while rest of Valve beaver away on it. Not sure where the source code theft fits into this ... does anyone know if any of the Havok stuff got leaked? I assume not?

 

[(TK)Deltashadow]

I think a big peice of the first part of the delay was underestimated work load, but I don't think it was just simple miscalculation. The fact of the matter is that the whole Valve team is their own biggest game fans and critics. If it won't pass their test it wouldn't pass our test. Also think about how excited we all are, when they gave that date it was like the excitment of Christmas times 1000 and they just didnt fully think of the task in depth in that excitment. It wouldnt have been prudent for valve to push back the release date a whole year, intetionally. Just remember they want to enjoy playing the final products with us(dod:s, halflife:s and even talking around the watercooler about how fast they sweeped through hl2, neglecting to say they had the cheats turned on) I actually thank Valve for at least their detication to Gaming perfection.

 

[koopa]

I think a big peice of the first part of the delay was underestimated work load, but I don't think it was just simple miscalculation.

But there will be project schedules, and it's normal for developers to have to deliver milestones/show they are on schedule with the publisher. I'd guess since Valve earned VU truckloads of money from HL1 they won't be as pressured as a smaller developer, but I still can't see Valve being a whole year out on their project management. VU and the marketing guys... well that's a different matter :naughty:

 

[huff]

Valve takes the money ATI offers then notices thats its not possible for a Sept 30. release so hires a hacker to steal a beta and use that as an excuse !

 

[MajorPayne]

As much as I hate to admit it (I am a big VALVe fan), I think everyone knows that the leak was not the full reason for 1 year delayed. I think the leak was the pretext for a delay that would have happened anyway, and simply allowed them an easy way out. I DO think ATI had something to do with not announcing the delay sooner, and I do think that converting all to DX9 (and aren't we glad they did) had to have taken additional time. Personally, I am glad they delayed, because I think they used the time well to perfect HL2. And better a delayed classic than a timely average game.

 

[N0N1337H41]

And the source leak clearly is not what prevented a 2003 release. I think VALVe simply made a gross error in judgement.

Making a 13+ month timetable miscalculation doesn’t happen just a couple of months before your projected release date. Not that banking and game developing are closely related, but I know that certain projects at my bank aren't budgeted enough time, but I can't imagine any type of event (minus having your data storage hardware burn up in a fire) that could cause them to misjudge THAT much. I'm sure that the leak cost them some time, but there was something else other than the leak. I'm not sure about all of the ATI theories, but I do think that VALVe lied to us, and then continued to deceive us up until just a bit before the 9/30 date.

But for all of the lies that we're told.... I still bought the damn gold package.

 

[cadaveca]

What happened:

AUGUST 2003:
DirectX9 announced. Valve offer the videocard partnership, that almost all games have, up for bid, and the highest bidder was ATI. It is also ATI's version of DirectX9 that Microsoft opts to go with, and based on the number of physical registers(8 for ATI, 5 for Nvida) that ATI uses,, offering a more stream-lined texture path.
SEPTEMBER 2004:
ATI holds ShaderDay, an hardware industry event to promote PS2.1, PS 3.0, and how ATI's cards beat down Nvidia's rivals. 6800GT, Nvidia's savior, is still a myth.

Low and behold, shortly thereafter, the alpha's been leaked, and the game delayed.

APRIL 2004:Servicepack2 comes out, and kills alot of programs. Surprisingly, none of Valve's products have issues, but HL2 is delayed again.

 

[koopa]

APRIL 2004:Servicepack2 comes out, and kills alot of programs. Surprisingly, none of Valve's products have issues, but HL2 is delayed again.

You mean they're using that as an excuse somehow? The things SP2 breaks are 5 minute fixes. Or is it a joke and I'm the last one to get it?

 

[wonkers]

You guys are morons. The hacker probably got 70% of what they had done. They totally missjudged when they would finish and then lied about the rest.

Actually I don't care what they did.

 

[WhiteZero]

You guys are morons. The hacker probably got 70% of what they had done.

It was offically stated that the hacker(s) got almost 100% of the Source Code and what they had finished for the game at the time.
:sniper:wonkers

 

[Dr. Freeman]

What happened:

AUGUST 2003:
DirectX9 announced. Valve offer the videocard partnership, that almost all games have, up for bid, and the highest bidder was ATI. It is also ATI's version of DirectX9 that Microsoft opts to go with, and based on the number of physical registers(8 for ATI, 5 for Nvida) that ATI uses,, offering a more stream-lined texture path.
SEPTEMBER 2004:
ATI holds ShaderDay, an hardware industry event to promote PS2.1, PS 3.0, and how ATI's cards beat down Nvidia's rivals. 6800GT, Nvidia's savior, is still a myth.

Low and behold, shortly thereafter, the alpha's been leaked, and the game delayed.

APRIL 2004:Servicepack2 comes out, and kills alot of programs. Surprisingly, none of Valve's products have issues, but HL2 is delayed again.

hm... thinking back, that is quite interesting.
of course all one needs to link these things together is money.
in the business world, money talks and it was bad for business to be releasing HL2 even at the stage it was at.

so they delayed it and have since improved on what they had.

 

[cadaveca]

hm... thinking back, that is quite interesting.
of course all one needs to link these things together is money.
in the business world, money talks and it was bad for business to be releasing HL2 even at the stage it was at.

so they delayed it and have since improved on what they had.

Now do you understand my earlier thread a few weeks ago, where i asked for links to the ACTUAL reason of delay? This is what i had come up with. Because most of the people here are gamers, and i'ma hardware guy, I gety a different perspective.


If you ask me, If my theory is correct(and all i have done is correlate events), then Valve did what they did for a very good reason, and even though I'm mad myself at the delay, I applaud the actions that could have put their heads on the chopping block.

I think they may have pulled it off.....I could also add that in APRIL pci-e was announced, as well as 939 amd64's, to be the future standards for upgrade-card connectivity..

 

[Kanehdian]

If the code leak didn't happen last year, it still would have been delayed but we would have had the game in our hands by now, probably since May or June. What took most of the past year in developement was probably re-coding the game to prevent online cheating and adapting Half-life 2 to take full advantage of DirectX 9 technology. For strongly stating the 09/30/03 release date, Valve was most likely too confident in their skills, even with twice the staff size as Half-life 1's developement crew.
So the main obstacles in developement were an unrealistic release date, leaked source code, and Vivendi for buying Sierra and opposing Steam's obviously great system.

 

[Dr. Freeman]

Now do you understand my earlier thread a few weeks ago, where i asked for links to the ACTUAL reason of delay? This is what i had come up with. Because most of the people here are gamers, and i'ma hardware guy, I gety a different perspective.


If you ask me, If my theory is correct(and all i have done is correlate events), then Valve did what they did for a very good reason, and even though I'm mad myself at the delay, I applaud the actions that could have put their heads on the chopping block.

I think they may have pulled it off.....I could also add that in APRIL pci-e was announced, as well as 939 amd64's, to be the future standards for upgrade-card connectivity..

yeah i understand now why u made that thread a few weeks ago.
my apoligies for not being patient in understanding what u were trying to get at.
anyway good forward thinking man :thumbs:

 

[koopa]

I think they may have pulled it off.....I could also add that in APRIL pci-e was announced, as well as 939 amd64's, to be the future standards for upgrade-card connectivity..

Your theories don't make any sense. What difference does socket 939 make to anything?

 

[DigitalAssassin]

Your theories don't make any sense. What difference does socket 939 make to anything?

Nothing. Unless Valve though "hm... better hardware soon, lets up the graphics". (They didn't, not after April anyway).

 

[destrukt]

The graphics will be basically the same as the beta/tech demos?

 

[cadaveca]

what difference the 939 made weighed in on thier decision to/not to develop 64-bit compatibility. Obviously you aren't into hardware.
939 also brings pci-e connectivity to AMD64, as there nforce4 will not support 754(will remain n-force3 250GB ultra), or at least that is Nvidia's plans.

Follow along, and i'll lead you, by the hand, through this...