So who hates item scaling?

[Raziaar]

Who among us here hates item scaling? The fact that the game robs you of a sense of exploration and excitement of finding rare, truely unique pieces of armor and weapons. The fact that you can literally amass enough daedric and glass armor at level 20 to outfit an entire army.

Yep... critters, as you advance in level, start wearing better and better armor, until eventually nearly all the normal, plain old, poor bandits are coming at you wearing daedric and glass armor.

I can't wait for the mod community to get a mature, polished mod out that fixes this issue, and reverts it back to morrowind status, where finding a piece of daedric or glass, or ebony armor is truely a find, rather than a common occurance. Rather than daedric and ebony and glass armor being as common as the grass growing on the hillsides.

What I can't understand though, is why people defend this system. The nutjobs who are insulting and attacking the people who are complaining about the scaling system on the official forums. I guess they're just console kiddies who have no concept of rare and unique items, and expect uber loot to just rain on them from the skies.

 

[The Mullinator]

Even though I have not yet achieved a level where this would become a problem I still totally agree with everything you said. Luckily I doubt it will very long at all before a mod changing it back to the Morrowind style is released.

 

[Raziaar]

Now take this into consideration, when you think of my bitterness. I haven't been able to play the game for 5 days. The ENTIRE weekend, and half of a week has gone by, while I wait for the heatsink/fan that may or may not fry my graphics card when I install it.

So i've had time to stew on some of these issues. My character is still level 2 in game.

 

[Mutley]

I like it in some ways. Fighting harder enemies and at level 14 there is only 1 or 2 pieces of Mythril armor on enemies and takes a while to get a whole kit. I like getting the armor.

It would be nice to explore for it though. I agree, it sort of ruins it as if your level 1 (or any low level), you won't find anything worth while at all raiding dungeons and caves. No prizes for your exploration.

 

[AmishSlayer]

The scaling world is my major gripe with the game too. I really think static worlds work much better for games like this. If I'm roaming around into new and possibly dangerous territories...sometimes I WANT to walk into a fight I can't win. Progressing through areas and enemies is just part of advancement in characters. It's awesome to go back to old areas and kick the shit out of guys that used to give you troubles. It's also awesome to come across guys you can't beat because then you have something to shoot for.

In Oblivion EVERY battle can be won and there's no chance of you finding any rare items that are way above your level. Something's wrong with a game when you find all your current equipment from bandits that you can easily kill while hardly losing any health.

The feeling of progression in this game is just nonexistant because of this scaling.

Early levels you're just running around scrounging anything that's worth money so you can sell it to pay for some decent set of armor or supplies or training.

Mid levels you begin to gain all of your equipment in the field. Bandits and other human characters are your main source for new gear. Shops are always at least 1 step behind in terms of available classes of armor. You're getting mithril? They have chainmail or leather. Money begins to pile up seeing as there's nothing worthwhile to buy in the game besides a black horse and that's a measly 5k at this point. Sure it dents your wallet a bit but you're not spending it on anything else but 5 training sessions per level (if that).

High levels you start actually finding magic items consistently. Money is no object anymore. You have tens of thousands of gold and nothing to do with it. You start buying every house for sale in the entire game just to spend it. Bandits and other human characters are still your main source of equipment. At this point equipment you get from quests probably suck compared to your current gear. You start throwing everything on the ground that is worth less than 1,000 because it's just a waste of space.

This horrendously long rant said...I still have a lot of fun in this game. I just hate to see how it could be so much better with simple changes in the world.

I just started my second character today and I can't wait to become a vampire and continue in the Dark Brotherhood quests.

I say bring on the mods that fix these issues.

 

[Cole]

I like it but hate it.
It's kind of good because it would be way to boring if you were level 20, can steal anything, kill anything, do anything wayyyy beyond the word easyness.

Yet can be bad for the reasons listed above.

 

[Asknoone]

Its got its pros and cons but overall its my major issue with Oblivion. I want to remember when I had trouble fighting them bastard creatures then come back later and hand them hell on a platter. No can do.
I want to feel as though I am a powerful being in the world as I progress and learn new skills...but I can't.


Meh.

I can't hope for a mod either, since I've the 360 version.

 

[Gargantou]

I did a thread about this a few days ago, it's the biggest issue yes, it just gets silly when all the piss poor bandits you encounter are wearing daedric, glass and ebony armor.
Hopefully this is something they'll change in ES5.
Oh well, atleast I have Daggerfall for a better sense of accomplishment, exploration etc <3

 

[B_MAN]

yeah i agree with most of what's been said
there's really nothing to shoot for now
why hunt down and steal some elite armor when you can just slay a bandit for it? its kinda lame
still havin fun tho

 

[auron]

I just quit sleeping. I'm making my own kickass gear by enchanting it. Expensive though, and I quit sleeping before I hit the point of getting massive ammounts of gold from bandits. All leveling realy does is give the enemies better armor, which hurts you alot more than the increase in stats helps. Realy, you are the strongest at level 1. I just leveled up some becouse I wanted a bit of a challenge and better armor.

 

[Warbie]

I agree about the armour, but much prefer the scaling of enemy in fights. Take it away and you end up with a game more similar WoW, in which exploration is very limited at early levels, and you're herded through a predetermined route. Except it'd be even worse in Oblivion, because the game world is that much smaller - at least in WoW you have some choice in the areas your level is capable of. Most of the freedom that I enjoy in Oblivion would be gone.

The other disadvantage, which is also present in WoW, is when you hit a high level. Now 90% of the game world becomes redundant. Every enemy is riduculously easy to kill, offering no challenge/fun/satisfaction, and there's no loot/items/mats worth collecting. In Oblivion I can travel anywhere and always get a good fight. Dungeons that have been completed before can be tried again, now with tougher, and sometimes different, bad guys. Much better.

It would be nice if the best armour and weapons were tougher to get, though - it's silly coming by bandits who're tooled up in top gear and loaded with gold.

//edit

For those complainging about not having challenging fights - have you tried playing on the hardest difficulty setting? Now when you win it'll be because you've gotten better at the game, not because you've spent more hours levelling. I prefer games that reward skill/practise over time spent (which is why i'm tiring of WoW - a game that actually gets both easier and simpler in endgame, just everything takes ten times as long to achieve. Crazy)

 

[VirusType2]

Who among us here hates item scaling? The fact that the game robs you of a sense of exploration and excitement of finding rare, truely unique pieces of armor and weapons. The fact that you can literally amass enough daedric and glass armor at level 20 to outfit an entire army.

I can't wait for the mod community to get a mature, polished mod out that fixes this issue, and reverts it back to morrowind status, where finding a piece of daedric or glass, or ebony armor is truly a find, rather than a common occurrence. Rather than daedric and ebony and glass armor being as common as the grass growing on the hillsides.

Luckily I doubt it will very long at all before a mod changing it back to the Morrowind style is released.

Actually guys, Morrowind had the same problem. I owned chests full of armor sets. With a little skill (4th time replaying the game) I was wearing Ebony and Daedric armor and weapons, and had supplies of Glass and Dwemer armor and weapons by about level .. 4 or 7 .. can't remember. Maybe you guys didn't know where to get it. I agree that this armor no longer felt special and rare once every high level monster I came across had the exact same incredible weapons and armor as me, and eventually I wouldn't even bother carrying it all back to sell it.

Was there anything better than this armor? I never found any, though I never finished the game .. got my stats almost maxed and got a little bored of collecting sacks of loot only to take them somewhere to sell them. What was originally the most fun in the game began to become a little too much of a chore.

The problem is similar in that there is nothing you can spend your money on, except that in Morrowind you could pay an enchanter to take an ordinary ring or other item and create a powerfully enchanted magic item. This was extremely expensive.

In Oblivion, they've removed the enchanting ability from players, so now even more so, I would think you would use your money to get items enchanted. Has anyone come across an enchanter and experimented with what can be made and how much it costs yet?

The enemies get tougher as you level up - I pretty much agree with what Warbie said on this topic. While it can be cool to gain an advantage over your enemies as you level up, killing monsters in one hit is so lame; a common occurrence in Morrowind.


There will be mods. Oh yes, there willlll beeee mods.

 

[Mutley]

I think Scaling is 50/50. I think creatures/NPC scaling is GOOD but item scaling is BAD.

If it was just NPC scaling, bandits would still wear chainmail/leather/fur but harder to kill and have better powers/attacks. New monsters would spawn with your level too... but the change is, no item scaling. So you have to find/quest for good armor and weapons. When you do, NPC scaling won't be a problem because you pwn them with good weapons/armor. Once you level, harder badies will spawn again, and the process starts again of finding better armor/weapons... now that would be alot better. Agreed?

People need to realise enemy scaling isn't that bad, if at all. Just item scaling makes it so much worse.

 

[Gargantou]

I think SOME NPC scaling is good..
But it's silly that you can just as easily complete the game on level 1, than on level 12.. IMO..
But then again that's just because I'm a fan of the OLDER ES games, I.e. Daggerfall and Morrowind where you actually knew "I had to avoid that monster til I was level x", like this quest that Bethesda even warned you shouldn't do unless you were level 30, I did it and got soooo badly owned.
In terms of depth and RPGness Oblivion is definitely a step backwards, but as was Morrowind, it was only Daggerfall that actually made the game more COMPLEX, and that was the second game in the series.
But I guess with the rising costs of next-gen developing they have to appeal to a larger audience..

 

[Fishlore]

I haven't had this effect me yet. Personally though I want my enemies to always be tough. I've never gotten satisfaction running around one hitting things. That's usually the point I stop playing. Right now I can one hit certain things and other things beat me down every single time. Sounds about right to me. I can't say it will stay like that as I continue to level though. Judging by the complaints it won't.

I can understand people's point about rare items and armor. I'm just not sure I agree. Your character can get it's hands on the stuff, why shouldn't NPCs be able to as well? I thought we wanted more realisim and better AI in our games, not worse.

Personally I'd prefer an option to remove the auto scaling loot, that way people who don't like the current system can change it with a click of the mouse and I can leave it just like it is and we can all be happy.

 

[Gargantou]

Fishlore, going totally against ES lore and universe is not making the game more realistic.
Daedric armor is according to the ES universe incredibly and I mean INCREDIBLY hard to come by, how can every single ****ing bandit have it then?

 

[mortiz]

I think Scaling is 50/50. I think creatures/NPC scaling is GOOD but item scaling is BAD.

If it was just NPC scaling, bandits would still wear chainmail/leather/fur but harder to kill and have better powers/attacks. New monsters would spawn with your level too... but the change is, no item scaling. So you have to find/quest for good armor and weapons. When you do, NPC scaling won't be a problem because you pwn them with good weapons/armor. Once you level, harder badies will spawn again, and the process starts again of finding better armor/weapons... now that would be alot better. Agreed?

People need to realise enemy scaling isn't that bad, if at all. Just item scaling makes it so much worse.

Nah, that would be a bad idea imo. For instance you could hunt down an enemy with some really cool amour at an early level and since you're only level 2 or 3 say he'd be easy to kill so all of the good equipment would be easy to get. Some scaling for perhaps the first few levels, but beyond a certain point in the game scaling should just be thrown out the window and enemies should have set difficulties. There isn't anything inherently wrong with that either, it's just a simple balance issue that most Devs can't be bothered to get right. You just make sure you've got lots of content to keep the higher levels entertained. It's also cool to explore areas where you're too weak to go yet and get your ass kicked by some huge evil monster.

I have quite a few gripes with Oblivion and this is only one. It's not bad for an action game (it's not a CRPG dammit!) but definitely not worth the hype, as I expected it wouldn't be.

 

[Cole]

here isn't anything inherently wrong with that either, it's just a simple balance issue that most Devs can't be bothered to get right

Extremely true, and I think Bethesda did hit in a good area but I think once more Mods start coming along they'll balance it out better.

You gotta make it so the game dosn't boring at higher levels so theres nothing to do, yet still make it feel worthwhile that you got to such a high level.

It's worth my hype, I wasn't expecting some game where you can do absolutely anything where the world is in constant motion. Now if Bethesda's next game relied heavily on procedural generating....well that be another story...

 

[Fishlore]

Fishlore, going totally against ES lore and universe is not making the game more realistic.
Daedric armor is according to the ES universe incredibly and I mean INCREDIBLY hard to come by, how can every single ****ing bandit have it then?

Realistic is probably a very poor choice of words on my part. My point is that NPCs should have the access, the ability and the desire to get anything the player can get. They should seek out the best equipment as well. That's where I was going with the realism angle. I'd like the AI I compete against to be as human like as possible. A human isn't going to use leather armor at level 25, so why should NPCs. I'm not saying that every NPC should have the absolute best armor though.

I won't argue the fact that it appears this game has way to much high end loot, too easily available. I too would love to have those one or two items that are better than everything else and hidden away somewhere. Maybe they are. But at the same time I'd want the AI to have just as much of a chance at finding it as I do. I know we're not there yet, but it would be nice.

Finally I have to say that this is my second fantasy RPG that I've ever played. I usually avoid the genre and setting like the plague. As a result I don't have a clue about what the relative amounts of these different types of equipment should be. I guess I don't really care either. As long as the game is challenging and fun I'm happy. I'd love to see an option for loot scaling in addition to level scaling just to see how different the game is and to make everyone else happy.

 

[Mutley]

Item scaling, no more uber stuff on NPCs/Bandits. Plugin here:
http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=311376

 

[AmishSlayer]

Realistic is probably a very poor choice of words on my part. My point is that NPCs should have the access, the ability and the desire to get anything the player can get. They should seek out the best equipment as well. That's where I was going with the realism angle. I'd like the AI I compete against to be as human like as possible. A human isn't going to use leather armor at level 25, so why should NPCs. I'm not saying that every NPC should have the absolute best armor though.

I won't argue the fact that it appears this game has way to much high end loot, too easily available. I too would love to have those one or two items that are better than everything else and hidden away somewhere. Maybe they are. But at the same time I'd want the AI to have just as much of a chance at finding it as I do. I know we're not there yet, but it would be nice.

Finally I have to say that this is my second fantasy RPG that I've ever played. I usually avoid the genre and setting like the plague. As a result I don't have a clue about what the relative amounts of these different types of equipment should be. I guess I don't really care either. As long as the game is challenging and fun I'm happy. I'd love to see an option for loot scaling in addition to level scaling just to see how different the game is and to make everyone else happy.

I'm fine with some enemies having good equipment but not simple bandits...I mean these are people that just sit on the roads and raid the passing people. They're not bound to get full sets of glass armor. I think glass and daedric armor should be very rare to come by, like only a few places you can get it in quests or enemy group leaders or something.

As for Warbie's comment on how it'd be like WoW - I don't think the game has to separate whole areas into level groups. I think low should be mixed in with medium and high strength monsters. I still think there should be some specific high and specific low end areas as well though to fear and feel a little safer when you're starting (and to go stomp all over enemies that gave you trouble later on). The overall countryside of the world would be great if it had a real mixture of difficulty if you ask me.

 

[Dalamari]

I like the scaling, it forces you to find rare pieces of armor (like the imperial dragonscale armor, that stuff is one of a kind) or to go and get umbra

 

[VirusType2]

Hmm don't you get better with your abilities with every use? So maybe they had to make monsters level up as you do, to keep you from going off and leveling up off of little level 1 monsters.

 

[AmishSlayer]

Hmm don't you get better with your abilities with every use? So maybe they had to make monsters level up as you do, to keep you from going off and leveling up off of little level 1 monsters.

Leveling off the level 1 monsters would take AGES. You get skill based on hitting an enemy. Lower level monsters would take 1 hit to kill thus barely moving your bar. Higher level monsters take a lot more so leveling is much more efficient on them.

 

[VirusType2]

Leveling off the level 1 monsters would take AGES. You get skill based on hitting an enemy. Lower level monsters would take 1 hit to kill thus barely moving your bar. Higher level monsters take a lot more so leveling is much more efficient on them.

I used level 1 as an extreme example but I think you've missed the point. Let me re-iterate:

you get better with your abilities with every use. Maybe they had to make monsters level up as you do, to keep you from getting easy experience from weak enemies.

Imagine if they didn't have monsters level up as you do. Here is an example of a problematic scenario under these conditions:

You go into an old cave filled with easy enemies - enemies that can't even hurt you. They may only be several levels below you but you are considerably more powerful. You equip an extremely weak sword, something like "Rusty POS Sword of Weakness" and eat an item that lowers your strength. (In Morrowind there are many items that can affect your stats temporarily when eaten - items like rat meat caused negative effects like lowering willpower or strength. I can't play Oblivion right now but I assume it's a similar effect.) So there you are doing little damage, hacking away at the beast, it may take a minute or two to finally finish him off - all the while the enemy attacks are missing or taking only a couple HP. In the mean-time you have gained a skill level with swords because for every sword swing that strikes a monster, you're get that much closer to leveling up your sword ability.

Is this possibly why they made monsters level up as you do? Well thats what I believe because it makes sense to me. I'm sure there are more reasons - like the ones Warbie talked about.

Ah well, it's not by any means an interesting topic anyhow. Mutley pointed to a thread that does remove the item scaling though... I also noticed there are several of these mods already, so scroll down on that link to be sure you get the right one for you.

 

[AmishSlayer]

I used level 1 as an extreme example but I think you've missed the point. Let me re-iterate:

Imagine if they didn't have monsters level up as you do. Here is an example of a problematic scenario under these conditions:

You go into an old cave filled with easy enemies - enemies that can't even hurt you. They may only be several levels below you but you are considerably more powerful. You equip an extremely weak sword, something like "Rusty POS Sword of Weakness" and eat an item that lowers your strength. (In Morrowind there are many items that can affect your stats temporarily when eaten - items like rat meat caused negative effects like lowering willpower or strength. I can't play Oblivion right now but I assume it's a similar effect.) So there you are doing little damage, hacking away at the beast, it may take a minute or two to finally finish him off - all the while the enemy attacks are missing or taking only a couple HP. In the mean-time you have gained a skill level with swords because for every sword swing that strikes a monster, you're get that much closer to leveling up your sword ability.

Is this possibly why they made monsters level up as you do? Well thats what I believe because it makes sense to me. I'm sure there are more reasons - like the ones Warbie talked about.

Ah well, it's not by any means an interesting topic anyhow. Mutley pointed to a thread that does remove the item scaling though... I also noticed there are several of these mods already, so scroll down on that link to be sure you get the right one for you.

While I suppose that is possible, why not just fight monsters your level with the same amount of effort and actually have a chance to get decent gold and equipment? Sure you'll be in more danger but not too much if you're smart.

People that pull stuff like what you explained go out of their way to exploit games...

I don't think the overall advancement of your in-game experience should be tailored just to prevent some people from exploiting the system in their own lame way...but that's just me.

 

[CookieCuttah]

Exploiting the game is an exception, not how it's ment to be played. I know a lot of people get +5 on stats, but I personally don't do that, I just play my role as a warrior and level up on the normal +2 and +3. Enemies are getting a bit too tough at times, I don't really get how things I killed before in 4 hits still only die in 4 hits when I have like a magical sword that does 11 damage as opposed to the previous 2. I think things should only level in places you don't travel often (Dungeons), it's kind of unrealistic to come to the same place a week later, way strong and be killed by something that stood no chance before.

 

[DreadLord]

I find it ridiculously annoying that I can't execute someone in one hit while they sleep. If someone is sleepin I should be able to deal a deadly enough blow to kill them, without them getting up and screaming for the guards and waking up the entire city.

 

[Sainku]

I like it and I dislike it sometimes. I really don't want it to go back to how it was in morrowind though. This is probably my biggest complaint as well, but it doesnt bother me to much. I don't think they did this because it needed more mass appeal as some people have said though.

 

[phantomdesign]

I see two perspectives within this discussion; those who have played Morrowind (For at least 20 hours) and those who haven’t. To fully understand and appreciate the complaint about scaling, you really have to understand how morrowind worked – as a model of how Oblivion COULD HAVE worked.

Scaling in Morrowind vs Oblivion:
Morrowind did have a small amount of item scaling, however it never really took away from gameplay much. The loot in random crates scaled slightly, but you’d never find truly unique & powerful items there. For the most part, high-powered items were difficult to find & acquire, but exceedingly rewarding – due to their rare, unique, and powerful nature. It’s like the Umbra sword people have been talking about in the other thread.

For example, I remember finding this cavern – after fighting past numerous challenging enemies and then navigating this unique maze (already a memorable exerpeince) I came to this boat in the cavern. On the boat, there was a guy decked out in some cool armor and there was a decent amount of other cool loot on the boat. IT was an awesome experience – however I decided to levitate to see if there was anything else nearby. When I got to the top, I found this unique daedric helmet – at which point I got extremely excited and called my “best-nerd-buddy” to inform him of the latest find!

In oblivion, every item scales. Not only to bandits get glass or daedric armor & not only do items in chests scale, but quest rewards and even unique items appear to be scaled. I hate to say this at the risk of ruining the game for someone (because you might try to exploit this), but it makes it exceedingly advantageous to finish quests at a low level & then accept rewards at a much higher level.

For example, the mages staff you get from the mages guild in oblivion is severely scaled. On my first character, I got a frost staff and it had 80-damage-per-shot. I thought to myself that it was very over-powered for an easily acquirable item. I eventually started a second character & this time when I got the staff, it had a measly 20 frost damage.


-----------
I’m tired of typing and I’m sure you’re tired of reading, but I’ll continue this later.

 

[phantomdesign]

You can level up that way, but it's incredibly boring, not to mention unrewarding.

Imagine if they didn't have monsters level up as you do. Here is an example of a problematic scenario under these conditions:
<snip>

I like it and I dislike it sometimes. I really don't want it to go back to how it was in morrowind though. This is probably my biggest complaint as well, but it doesnt bother me to much. I don't think they did this because it needed more mass appeal as some people have said though.

Whenever I hear the word "Mass appeal" I get nauceous.

 

[phantomdesign]

<Delete>

 

[Sui]

Personally I really like the feature. It sets Oblivion apart from all the other standard RPGs, which give the impression that you're some high-and-mighty god. Oblivion makes you feel like you're just one more fish in the sea - it makes the game feel like you're getting better with experience and not with experience points. Because in the real world, people don't get magically stronger as they murder people, and we can't run around killing people just by touching them.

As for the equipment - I can see how this would be annoying. But personally I like it. It means that the game isn't just about getting epic loot, but more based on your skill. However, I wish there was some "epic" dungeons / items that you needed to be level x to get. For instance, there could be a dungeon that required level 10, 15, 20, 30 etc (not literally - just if you weren't these levels, you'd die like an insect) that have some truly amazing armour.

Also, the armour system represents the profound effect globalisation is having on the modern day economy. Unlike in the past, where it was only people of noble blood such as lords and ladies who could afford luxurious lifestyles, now even the most sophisticated equipment is available for the everyday man.

hehe

 

[Gargantou]

Suicide, you fail at having the correct(I.e. my) opinions about an ES game, thus you must now suffer the consequences! > : (*Stabedistabs with a stabmachine*

 

[Roland Deschain]

Personally I really like the feature. It sets Oblivion apart from all the other standard RPGs, which give the impression that you're some high-and-mighty god. Oblivion makes you feel like you're just one more fish in the sea - it makes the game feel like you're getting better with experience and not with experience points. Because in the real world, people don't get magically stronger as they murder people, and we can't run around killing people just by touching them.

As for the equipment - I can see how this would be annoying. But personally I like it. It means that the game isn't just about getting epic loot, but more based on your skill. However, I wish there was some "epic" dungeons / items that you needed to be level x to get. For instance, there could be a dungeon that required level 10, 15, 20, 30 etc (not literally - just if you weren't these levels, you'd die like an insect) that have some truly amazing armour.

Also, the armour system represents the profound effect globalisation is having on the modern day economy. Unlike in the past, where it was only people of noble blood such as lords and ladies who could afford luxurious lifestyles, now even the most sophisticated equipment is available for the everyday man.

hehe

Yep, now an entire cave of goblins can have elven shields and swords. God bless globalization.

 

[phantomdesign]

I have to disagree with Suic (3 comments up). In the realms of fantasy - people want to be specail - a james bond, gandolf, nerevar. If everyone had a ferrari - sure they'd be nice cars, but it wouldn't be nearly as specail to own one. In fact, you might be looking at rare junky Fords if everyone had a ferrari.

It's also part of competition - if you've played a MMORPG, your goal is to be the biggest baddest player on that server that can whip anyone's butt - at least if you have above-average skill. If you play a sport, you'll want the most home runs.

Even teh story of Oblivion tries to support the idea that YOU can make the difference, save the world. Start as nothing and become something great. It's not nearly as specail if EVERYONE seems to get every bonus you get based on your hard work. In fact, if you're lazy, it doesn't really matter, because that means all NPCs are lazy.

 

[Sainku]

I agree with suicide I much prefer just being another fish in the sea in a way. The only bad thing is I have played the elder scrolls games for a while now and seeing what used to be rare armor on an average joe kind of looks weird. If I didn't recognize the armor I don't think I would be anywhere near as bothered. But it really just isn't that big of a deal for me.

 

[CookieCuttah]

Given some wit and patience ive succesfully murdered people and payed off only about 80 gold for it. You're not exactly "A fish in the sea" . If you're methodic you can clear a whole town of people, it just takes a while. Same way with most battles, you just have to be very methodic and figure out your own way of going about things.

 

[Cole]

Even teh story of Oblivion tries to support the idea that YOU can make the difference, save the world. Start as nothing and become something great. It's not nearly as specail if EVERYONE seems to get every bonus you get based on your hard work. In fact, if you're lazy, it doesn't really matter, because that means all NPCs are lazy.

Yes, but the game might get boring around level 20 then. You can kick everythings ass, you can do any quest with complete ease.
Of course I would agree that the item system shouldn't go up to Deadric Armor and Weapons..thats just a little over the top but it will keep it fun. Because after those start appearing more, just keep on leveling because the game will eventually stop leveling with you and you will get better magic gear (Guys do -34% normal damage to me) and you will be able to own everybody it just keeps the mid-game fun.


also if you dislike it THERES A FEW MODS THATS HAVE ALREADY COMPLETELY REVAMPED IT. Thank you, if you own the 360 version well in my proffesional opinion ur just gonna have to get past it like im sure you will cuz it is still a damn good game.

 

[phantomdesign]

If you played morrowind, the game was kept interesting long past level 20. At the beginning, you could only raid caves near towns, but as you got stronger, you could start raiding more remote shrines and stuff.

What I'm saying is they didn't have to do it this way to keep it interesting - in fact they could have done it the way they've already done it.