Soldier Suicide over warnings to shoot children.

[kirovman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/5285816.stm

A 19-year-old soldier who killed himself because he feared having to shoot child suicide bombers has been buried in Greater Manchester.

Jason Chelsea told his parents, after an overdose, that as part of training for Iraq he had been warned he might have to shoot children.

The Kings, Lancashire and Border Regiment infantryman was staying at his parents in Wigan when he overdosed.

A military inquest is to be held into his death.

Family tribute

His mother, Kerry Chelsea, paid tribute to her son, describing him as a "kind and generous man".

Jason died on 14 August at St James's Hospital in Leeds - four days after taking the overdose.

He had been facing the prospect of his first tour of duty in Iraq and had undergone pre-deployment training in preparation.

A Ministry of Defence spokeswoman said: "The Army are greatly saddened by the death of Kingsman Chelsea and the thoughts and sympathies of all the soldiers will be with his family and friends at this very difficult time.

Psychiatric illness

"The tragedy is very recent and there are investigations ongoing and until they are completed we can't comment further."

The MoD did not respond directly to the allegations the soldiers were trained to shoot child suicide bombers.

Earlier this month the MoD released figures showing 1,541 soldiers who served in Iraq are suffering from psychiatric illness.

Last year, 727 cases were recorded, amounting to nearly 10% of the British deployment.

 

[CptStern]

well at least you brits warn ...pretty sure the other guys in the coalition encourage


ya but this sucks ..wtf why are we allowing our governments to send boys to their deaths just to line their pockets? it's just mindblowing that there's still support for this war

read somewhere that the figures for American post traumatic stress is much higher:closer to 20%

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5334479/

btw why didnt he just quit? jail time is preferable to death

 

[DeusExMachina]

Feel sorry for those boys

 

[brink's]

btw why didnt he just quit? jail time is preferable to death

Psychiatric illness?

 

[colson]

Personally it wouldn't be any different to me. If a little kid is gonna try to kill me I have no problem pumping him full of lead. It's sad that those twisted Islamic bastards would train there own children too do such a thing but really what can you do if this little kid is going to try to kill you? Soldiers have to bury there emotions inside themselves and just accept that an enemy is a enemy. I know thats harsh but that's the way it is if your going to be a dependable soldier who can be responsible for your life and the lives of your squad. Call me insesitive or whatever but I'm just being rational.

 

[sinkoman]

Personally it wouldn't be any different to me. If a little kid is gonna try to kill me I have no problem pumping him full of lead. It's sad that those twisted Islamic bastards would train there own children too do such a thing but really what can you do if this little kid is going to try to kill you? Soldiers have to bury there emotions inside themselves and just accept that an enemy is a enemy. I know thats harsh but that's the way it is if your going to be a dependable soldier who can be responsible for your life and the lives of your squad. Call me insesitive or whatever but I'm just being rational.

That's why I hate soldiers.

The good ones are ****ing ROBOTS.

The bad ones are loonies.

 

[Geogaddi]

That's why I hate soldiers.

The good ones are ****ing ROBOTS.

The bad ones are loonies.

I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It is impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror. Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies. I remember when I was with Special Forces. Seems a thousand centuries ago. We went into a camp to inoculate the children. We left the camp after we had inoculated the children for Polio, and this old man came running after us and he was crying. He couldn't see. We went back there and they had come and... hacked off every inoculated arm. There they were in a pile. A pile of little arms. And I remember... I... I... I cried. I wept like some grandmother. I wanted to tear my teeth out. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I want to remember it. I never want to forget it. I never want to forget.
And then I realized... like I was shot... like I was shot with a diamond... a diamond bullet right through my forehead. And I thought: My God... the genius of that. The genius. The will to do that. Perfect, genuine, complete, crystalline, pure. And then I realized they were stronger than we. Because they could stand that... these were not monsters. These were men... trained cadres. These men who fought with their hearts, who had families, who had children, who were filled with love... but they had the strength... the strength... to do that. If I had ten divisions of those men our troubles here would be over very quickly. You have to have men who are moral... and at the same time who are able to utilize their primordial instincts to kill without feeling... without passion... without judgment... without judgment. For it is judgment that defeats us.

If you haven't seen Apocalypse Now, see it now. (lol)

 

[sinkoman]

If you haven't seen Apocalypse Now, see it now. (lol)

I should have said that differently.

That's why I hate the military. They expect a good soldier to be a ****ing robot.

And the ones that aren't "good" by their standards, tend to go insane.

Thar?

 

[pvtbones]

A robot is the last thing a military wants are robots (do I really need to explain why?)

 

[sinkoman]

A robot is the last thing a military wants are robots (do I really need to explain why?)

I don't mean like skynet...

 

[pvtbones]

neither do I.

 

[_Z_Ryuken]

neither do I.

You didn't exactly form a coherant statement. Care to elaborate?

 

[pvtbones]

the military does not what it's soldiers to be mindless automatons, it would be counter productive.

a soldier who can only shoot and follow orders is a useless soldier in any field of combat in this day and age. If the highest ranking indivdual is killed or communications to HQ are disabled they will quickly fall to pieces and die. Canadian snipers make a habit to kill the technician of any enemy group and the communications equipment (satellite up-link) before taking out the leader (that way the enemy cannot report enemy movements or request back up and such.)

For example Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers are require to fight in a fourth generation environment and fight a 3 block war (they may be required to fight a full scale conflict on the first block, peace keeping on the second and humanitarian on the 3rd.)

A soldier who cannot think outside the box will get himself killed aswell as those around him and possible indanger civillians, and we all remember dead civies = bad.

there is no switch a soldier to flick to turn off his/her emotions they are taught to rely on their training and their brothers in arms to get them through one conflict to the next. A soldier who only thinks about killing the enemy will place everyone in risk and shouldn't not be anywhere near a warzone.

PS: I apoligize for any spelling errors or any fuzzy points, it's a bit late and I'm rather tired at the moment.

I can't seem to find the article about the canadian snipers targetting the techie and communication equipment first. I think it was a CTV article. it was about a sniper training in alberta, google didn't give me anything at the moment.

 

[sinkoman]

the military does not what it's soldiers to be mindless automatons, it would be counter productive.

a soldier who can only shoot and follow orders is a useless soldier in any field of combat in this day and age. If the highest ranking indivdual is killed or communications to HQ are disabled they will quickly fall to pieces and die. Canadian snipers make a habit to kill the technician of any enemy group and the communications equipment (satellite up-link) before taking out the leader (that way the enemy cannot report enemy movements or request back up and such.)

For example Iraq and Afghanistan soldiers are require to fight in a fourth generation environment and fight a 3 block war (they may be required to fight a full scale conflict on the first block, peace keeping on the second and humanitarian on the 3rd.)

A soldier who cannot think outside the box will get himself killed aswell as those around him and possible indanger civillians, and we all remember dead civies = bad.

there is no switch a soldier to flick to turn off his/her emotions they are taught to rely on their training and their brothers in arms to get them through one conflict to the next. A soldier who only thinks about killing the enemy will place everyone in risk and shouldn't not be anywhere near a warzone.

PS: I apoligize for any spelling errors or any fuzzy points, it's a bit late and I'm rather tired at the moment.

I can't seem to find the article about the canadian snipers targetting the techie and communication equipment first. I think it was a CTV article. it was about a sniper training in alberta, google didn't give me anything at the moment.

You took what I said WAY too literally.

I mean that, by military standards, a good soldier is one that does every thing his superiors say, who does everything by the book, who doesn't stray from his predesignated path...

A good soldier, when told that that 5 year old over there is a bomb, and then is ordered to shoot said 5 year old in the face, will do exactly as said.

 

[15357]

A good soldier, when told that that 5 year old over there is a bomb, and then is ordered to shoot said 5 year old in the face, will do exactly as said.

And if he sees the 5 year old to be carrying a big backpack or something.

I mean that, by military standards, a good soldier is one that does every thing his superiors say, who does everything by the book, who doesn't stray from his predesignated path...

...and knows what orders are wrong.


Anyway, that guy was, unfortunately, unrealistic. Perhaps even somewhat stupid. Killing oneself because he thought he might have to shoot kids is just.... not a good choice to make.

 

[sinkoman]

...and knows what orders are wrong.

A soldier who defies ANY order is, technically, a BAD soldier.

 

[15357]

Sen. Officer's order: Kill the [Higher ranking officer (than the SO]

= BAD ORDER. MUST TERMINATE PROGRAM. ERROR 2-304E1000100

 

[colson]

Any kind of soldier is a bad idea in my opinion unless they are fighting for themselves and not some stupid government agenda. I feel sorry for those poor bastards sent to Iraq just so that the American government can extend its power to other parts of the world. It's sickening. The only kind of soldiers that I view as usefull are the ones fighting for something they actually believe in and this is necessary. For example soldiers fighting the axis powers in WWII. If they hadn't battled the world would be controlled by a lunatic. Today's wars seem to lack any kind of acceptable reason in my mind. Corporate power, religion, its all just a bunch of bullshit.

 

[Gunner]

Personally it wouldn't be any different to me. If a little kid is gonna try to kill me I have no problem pumping him full of lead. It's sad that those twisted Islamic bastards would train there own children too do such a thing but really what can you do if this little kid is going to try to kill you? Soldiers have to bury there emotions inside themselves and just accept that an enemy is a enemy. I know thats harsh but that's the way it is if your going to be a dependable soldier who can be responsible for your life and the lives of your squad. Call me insesitive or whatever but I'm just being rational.

You don't understand. Extremist radical muslim imams would NEVER send their own children to fight and die, they preach hatred so other people would send their children.

 

[99.vikram]

Another day, another death...the times we live in!

 

[bliink]

ffs he was only 19.

Sending kids out to kill people is bullshit. Humanity is such a heap of shit.

 

[Adabiviak]

Psychiatric illness - it sounds like his noodle was baked a little to begin with. Just what this guy needed was to be flown to that s#it hole and told, 'you might have to shoot children'. Good luck with that!