Spy and his Sapper weapon

[Mutley]

I think it's called the Sapper, basically that little bug they put on Engineers buildings.

On maps where you're fighting over the last CP, the defenders usually spawn right next to it, you get about 3-4 Engineers defending.

So I was an Engineer out of the 4 we had a Sentry and Dispenser each, a spy comes, disguised as an Engineer and bugs all our stuff instantly (so about 8+ things) all in a row, everyone panics and trys to get the bugs off their stuff so they don't get blown up - now, I decide to kill him as he is putting them on constantly as they are repairing - in this 30sec of killing him (first I had to find which Engineer was the spy and that was a bitch since we were all pretty much touching each others stuff) I lost my upgraded Sentry.

Now, it's REALLY annoying - simply because the Spy can instantly place these bugs, I feel it needs at least a 2-3 second reload time. Other than that I have no other issues with the Spy but this bugging constantly was a nightmare and either way the Engineer loses.

 

[Apocalypse89]

Considering how overpowered the turrets are, and the amount of complaints about the engineer's effectiveness, this is only a good thing. And this is coming from someone who prefers to play an engi to a spy.

 

[Malfunction]

Yeah, I agree. I like how spies can REALLY mess your shit up if your an engy. I feel it adds a more combat oriented feel to being an Engy instead of sitting back and defending your stuff.

I'm new to TF in general, and I couldn't figure out if you can actually remove the Sapper from your builds and stuff. I generally just tried to kill the Spy really fast as they always hung out near the target, and I could have sworn killing them would cancel out the bug.

 

[Mutley]

I just played as Spy and it was rather fun taking out 3 Dispensers and 2 Turrets which were bunched up.

I've not had issues with Sentrys, I've taken loads out from just seeing a glimpse of them around a corner and shooting it with something like a Pistol - it takes about 5 shots.

 

[Lucid]

Are you actually able to de-bug your turrets?

Cause it sounds like it's way too easy for spies to sabotage everything.

 

[Mutley]

The Spy places them by clicking the buildings - it is instant, there is no charge or reload, so as soon as an Engineer removes them from 1 to 2 wacks the Spy can place one instantly again - so you have a choice, kill the Spy and hope you can remove the bug quick enough in time, or lose your turret trying to repair it because the Spy can place them faster than they can be removed.

 

[kacation_man]

I think it's called the Sapper, basically that little bug they put on Engineers buildings.

On maps where you're fighting over the last CP, the defenders usually spawn right next to it, you get about 3-4 Engineers defending.

So I was an Engineer out of the 4 we had a Sentry and Dispenser each, a spy comes, disguised as an Engineer and bugs all our stuff instantly (so about 8+ things) all in a row, everyone panics and trys to get the bugs off their stuff so they don't get blown up - now, I decide to kill him as he is putting them on constantly as they are repairing - in this 30sec of killing him (first I had to find which Engineer was the spy and that was a bitch since we were all pretty much touching each others stuff) I lost my upgraded Sentry.

Now, it's REALLY annoying - simply because the Spy can instantly place these bugs, I feel it needs at least a 2-3 second reload time. Other than that I have no other issues with the Spy but this bugging constantly was a nightmare and either way the Engineer loses.

Some one had complained about this in a server i was playing on, and I think i agree because the sentries maybe effective, but they are week and not entirely easy to fix if you dont have a dispenser.

 

[Flyingdebris]

SG are the most overpowered weapons in the game. Besides, if you babysit your turret, you can easily spot the spy and get him before he elctro zaps your stuff.

 

[CyberPitz]

SG are the most overpowered weapons in the game. Besides, if you babysit your turret, you can easily spot the spy and get him before he elctro zaps your stuff.

Agreed. I am an engie a lot and I don't see a big problem yet. Most cases, anybody looking at my stuff suspiciously gets blown the **** away. It doesn't take long to take off the sapper, anyway.

 

[scotland1]

Yeah I was on dustbowl and a spy kept trying to zapp my sentry, eventually he did, after all that upgrading. Very annoying.

 

[Ennui]

It's easy as hell to defend your turret and dispenser if you're an engineer and a spy comes by. Just beat him to death with the wrench - which is easy because he has low HP - and repair your shit while you're doing it. I've never lost a turret to a sapper and they've tried many many times.

Also, I'll be pissed if they nerf the sapper because that's really one of the best things a spy can do.

 

[Zeus]

I think it's fine the way it is because if you put a sapper on a turret, the engineer will kill you, if you kill the engineer then the turret kills you. Not to mention everyone always shoots their teammates to "check" them for being a spy. And sentry guns kill in like 1 second. So it's only right that spies can "sapper spam" as you described

 

[FISKER_Q]

It's easy as hell to defend your turret and dispenser if you're an engineer and a spy comes by. Just beat him to death with the wrench - which is easy because he has low HP - and repair your shit while you're doing it. I've never lost a turret to a sapper and they've tried many many times.

Also, I'll be pissed if they nerf the sapper because that's really one of the best things a spy can do.

I disagree, that's basically only possible if he stands still, which a spy shouldn't do.

The sapper charges are extremely powerful, and i pretty much have no choice but spamming my sapped equipment asap or i lose it.

But there are of course 2 major contributing factors to this:

1. People don't know how to play and let the spy spam my SG's with sappers when there is an audible notification of the spy doing it .

2. Spies aren't that good otherwise, they are so easily spotted.

The thing is that i don't think we can solve this by FF, that would just make combat vs. spies totally silly.

If a spy approaches a somewhat concentrated group of people and undisguises that sentry will pretty much kill anyone in their path, also the same will likely happen if the persons see the spy.

I think the best would be to improve how the spy works, firstly it should never have the same name as the observer, meaning if his name is usually name1 when disguised and name1 sees him then it will show up as name2, it will remain unchanged for anyone else.

Perhaps some kind of dodge chance while disguised so people might say "oh he didn't die so he's probably not a spy".

Perhaps even some kind of fake fire abillity, although that might be over the top.

 

[Mutley]

It's easy as hell to defend your turret and dispenser if you're an engineer and a spy comes by. Just beat him to death with the wrench - which is easy because he has low HP - and repair your shit while you're doing it. I've never lost a turret to a sapper and they've tried many many times.

Also, I'll be pissed if they nerf the sapper because that's really one of the best things a spy can do.

It's only on like two maps where all the turrets/dispensers are located in a tight space - since everyone spawns and runs through all the buildings and you have 2-3 Engineers there anyway, a Spy walking through and constantly Sapping them is hard to spot, they'll defiantly get a majority of buildings down.

A two second reload/recharge for the Sapper would still keep them stealthy, they have to think a bit more plus it gives the Engineer a little less punishment.

I'll try and get a video of me as Spy and Sapper spam their stuff, it's very fun but as an Engineer mega piss off, especially if there are several Spys but yeah I agree with your statement, on most maps it's well balanced.

Edit: Woop! 2000 spammos.

 

[Synthos]

I don't think the spy or the engineer need to be changed paticularly.

 

[Asus]

I don't think it should be changed. If a spy bugs a few buildings but the engineer takes them off then the spy just had no effect. And that's with applying it instantly (timed to destruction). If you were paying attention and he came up to the buildings dressed as your team then you should be able to track him down and kill him. And if for some reason he gets away you can always inform your team that there is a spy that went down corridor #1 or something.

Even if he turns invisible when running away they often end up dying because you may have spotted him as his figure disappears and then they show up when your bullets hit them.

There are some exceptions when it is really easy for the spy (or explosives) to take out your stuff. Such as having tons of buildings in one spot or putting buildings in separate rooms and not being able to watch them. That is just not smart though.

 

[Asuka]

I think its perfect, the engy or spy dont need changing.

 

[Ionium]

Just shoot anybody that comes remotley close to your turret.

 

[Vangald]

I think the sapper should take just a smidge longer to shut down a structure.

I say this because as someone who always loved playing engineer I don't like having to sit on my sentry the whole match. For instance in 2fort. I want to be able to roam around the base and take part in some one on one combat while still being able to have a chance at fixing my sentry. As it is now I can never get there in time. Now I am not talking about coming up from the tunnels and to the basement or even the stair room to fix it but from the hallways on the bottom floor to the stair room I often don't have enough time to fix it.

I say either this or slow down their ability to spam sappers just a hair. Something slight and I would be happy.

 

[Iron_cube]

I remember my team having about 8 sentries all in the same spot on dustbowl.

I went away for like 3 seconds, and when I came back, there was smoke and sparks everywhere. Totally insane sappers.

 

[Warbie]

8 sentries in one place is equally insane!

As written in Sun Tzu's Art of War, 'you need a lame class to combat another lame class'

 

[Chris]

The Spy needs to keep his sapper ability, it's one of the few things that lets you actually get to the flag in 2fort And whilst the engineer is quite powefull, I feel that with the spy and the relitivly low range of the turrets it all balances out nicely.

If anything needs fixing its the scout needs a good nerfing and the pyro needs a damage boost. How can his flamer do less close combat damage than some other classes close combat weapons?

Cheers

 

[Ennui]

8 sentries in one place is equally insane!

As written in Sun Tzu's Art of War, 'you need a lame class to combat another lame class'

lol, amen

If sappers weren't so powerful it'd be half impossible to take out little Engineer fortress clusters (you know, when there are two or three or god forbid four engineers with their respective turrets/dispensers all together).

ITT: Engineers whining because they're pissy after a sapper broke their 20 kill streak

 

[Vangald]

8 sentries is a bit much unless it is a training map/match for a clan.

Max should be 4 and should be spaced decently.

Honestly when I hear people call engi a lame class I question there abilities as they come off as someone who played too much UT and are unhappy that they cant just rambo through an entire match.

I am not saying spy is a bad class. Irritating yes. But not bad. I just think the sapper should be toned down a hair so that the engi ISN'T just relegated to sitting on his sentry the whole match.

 

[Ennui]

That's the engineer's job! It's perfectly balanced, as it is, and if there's an imbalance I'd say it's in favor of the engineer, not the spy. Even if the sapper wasn't as powerful the engi would still have to stick by his sentry just as much.

 

[CyberPitz]

The Spy needs to keep his sapper ability, it's one of the few things that lets you actually get to the flag in 2fort And whilst the engineer is quite powefull, I feel that with the spy and the relitivly low range of the turrets it all balances out nicely.

If anything needs fixing its the scout needs a good nerfing and the pyro needs a damage boost. How can his flamer do less close combat damage than some other classes close combat weapons?

Cheers

I agree with this statement whole heartedly. I don't think the spy needs a nerf...if anything, they are easy to beat, since people just shoot each other anyway.

 

[Warbie]

Don't nerf the scout! He's can be a powerful class but already has some considerable weaknesses.

I could quite happily see the engineers turrets get a little nerf - a touch longer to lock on and fire - and for spys to be tweaked a little. I'm not sure the best way to go about that, but they can be damn annoying.

Honestly when I hear people call engi a lame class I question there abilities as they come off as someone who played too much UT and are unhappy that they cant just rambo through an entire match.

That isn't the case. I've always enjoyed the turrets in TFC and similar mods - they were particularly good in a RTCW mod that was popular for a little while. TF2 is the first TF game in which i've found their inclusion to be a little frustrating. Turrets should be powerful, but not godly.

 

[Seagull]

Spies are fine, I personally think scouts are a little over the top and pyro's flamethrower should be upped the range a tad bit.

 

[Synthos]

Spies are fine, I personally think scouts are a little over the top and pyro's flamethrower should be upped the range a tad bit.

Perfect agree-ance here (except not range but power).