Spy improvements list

[CLIKKY]

As there seems to be tonnes of good ideas out there for improving spys i thought it would be fun to have a thread just for them. So here is a of some of mine and some i have found. Feel more than free to add more ideas.

My ideas:

plunger gloves: can be used to scale walls and maybe then drop behind an unsuspecting enemy

Poison vial:
you can use this to contaminate water so that when enemys go under it they take damage and the water is alot more blurry. Can also be thrown into people so they get a blurred vision and sway alot making enemy less accurate for a short time. Also can be used to contaminate a medics heal beam, when apllied to the beam it slowly makes the ubercharge go down instead of up. when medic stops healing and the beam gets sucked back inside, medic takes damage (all but dirrectly throwing it into someone doesnt break disguise).

Time bomb: an obvious bomb that delays for 1 minute before doing big damage to anyone near it. can be used while disguised, but is obvious when you are setting it up.


From riomhaire

Spy - Deadly Neurotoxin
Replaces sapper. Acts similar to a sapper but can only be placed on dispensers and teleporter exits. When the dispenser/teleporter is used by an enemy it will emit a deadly neurotoxin, damaging and poisoning enemies, but not immediatly killing them provided they aren't on low health.

Spy - Drainer
Replaces sapper. Acts similar to a sapper but can only be placed on dispensers and sentries. Drains the ammunition of sentry guns and causes dispenser replenishment of health and ammunition to slow down (but not stop).

Spy - Smoke Bomb
Replaces sapper. Can only carry very few at once (one perhaps). Causes a large cloud of smoke to hamper enemy vision, of course, it hampers allied vision too.


From Blaise

I'd like to see the spy with the weapon he was originally meant to have, the silenced pistol, it could pack a larger clip, a bit less powerful, and obviously slienced.


From Flyingdebris

Spy. Blank firing gun, lets you shoot noncorpreal rounds while diguised, but your revolver cannot defend you anymore. makes a little bang flag pop out of your gun when you shoot. 2nd ALT "You can borrow my watch." Allows you to give a teammate a one time use 10 second invisibility that behaves just like the spy's except they cannot control it, but temporarily depletes your own cloak meter, replaces the sapper. Any kills made 10 seconds after invisibility fades off a teammate count as assist points for the spy. This ability does not work on other spies.


From Operational

Spy replacement for Sapper (or maybe the Revolver)
Heart Stopper: allows the Spy to fake their own death

Spy replacement for Sapper
Silent Saboteur: a Sapper which is harder to spot, destroy and doesn't alert the Engineer to it's presents. But it doesn't destroy the buildings just prevents them from working.

Spy replacement for the Cloak Watch (yeah I know not a weapon)
Resistance Watch: the Spy's cloak is replaced with an armor of sorts, the Spy takes less damage and can't be set on fire. But like the cloak he can't attack while it is on and has visual displays and time delays when turning it off or on.


From dekstar

Spy: Decoy that replaces invisiblity. It deploys a hologram of a random enemy (and displays random animations and taunts, with sounds from a crappy speaker it holds) where it is thrown that fools turrets into attacking it. The holograms probably wouldn't fool a real player unless they really weren't focussing. This temporarily stops the turrets attacking anyone else, giving (in my opinion) the spy an actual team-based weapon, instead of encouraging them to go off on their own).
The decoy can be destroyed by an enemy by shooting at the disk (shooting the projected hologram won't work), and it does have a limited battery life, but long enough for a careless engineer to lose the turrets.
Also if the decoy is well placed between two turrets, then they will shoot each other through the hologram and destroy themselves.

Alternatively, the hologram could be replaced by one of those coat rack stands, with a mask like the spy wears hung over it, and a tape player round it's neck that plays random taunts from the random class it chooses. Coat Racks have a limited health instead of battery life, but since they're not living (and turrets can kill heavies in seconds), health is quite high and probability of missing is too since they're so thin.
I think the coat rack idea would fit into the universe more (since it's quite comical and farfetched) but would be harder to implement.


From Hamsocks

Hack-Box
Class: Spy

Rather than destroying a sentry, the hack-box causes that sentry to fire on it's own team. This type of device has a slightly longer setup time than the sapper. Sentry gun can be returned to normal by an engineer wrenching it before the hack-box takes effect or by another spy's hack-box. Once hacked, a sentry can also take damage from friendly fire, so a team can simply destroy it's own guns.

There would be a lot of bugs and exploits to work out with that one, but I like the concept of the spy turning a team's own buildings against it. An engineer would still have the option of self-destructing it and it would explode if said engineer switched classes.


From mr.fua

Spy: slightly longer invisibility (1.5 times or so), but no sapper. (Player-killing focused spy)

and thats all i could be bothered fitting in.

 

[Omnomnick]

What is this thread...

Spy needs no improvements, end of...

 

[Iron_cube]

Great thread, some of these ideas are pretty cool.

Unlockables for spy should be pretty interesting.

 

[KennyJC]

I don't care what you do with spies, just stop getting 'face stab' insta kills. Should only be insta-kill if you get stabbed in the back or have very low health.

When I hear someone get back stabbed behind me, I spin round in time to get stabbed in the face, and it's falsely claimed by the game as a back stab. :angry:

 

[ríomhaire]

Best:

Spy. Blank firing gun, lets you shoot noncorpreal rounds while diguised, but your revolver cannot defend you anymore. makes a little bang flag pop out of your gun when you shoot.

Spy: Decoy that replaces invisiblity. It deploys a hologram of a random enemy (and displays random animations and taunts, with sounds from a crappy speaker it holds) where it is thrown that fools turrets into attacking it. The holograms probably wouldn't fool a real player unless they really weren't focussing. This temporarily stops the turrets attacking anyone else, giving (in my opinion) the spy an actual team-based weapon, instead of encouraging them to go off on their own).
The decoy can be destroyed by an enemy by shooting at the disk (shooting the projected hologram won't work), and it does have a limited battery life, but long enough for a careless engineer to lose the turrets.
Also if the decoy is well placed between two turrets, then they will shoot each other through the hologram and destroy themselves.

Alternatively, the hologram could be replaced by one of those coat rack stands, with a mask like the spy wears hung over it, and a tape player round it's neck that plays random taunts from the random class it chooses. Coat Racks have a limited health instead of battery life, but since they're not living (and turrets can kill heavies in seconds), health is quite high and probability of missing is too since they're so thin.
I think the coat rack idea would fit into the universe more (since it's quite comical and farfetched) but would be harder to implement.

 

[ktimekiller]

i want the slowing silenced pistol back, i hate the revolver

 

[Pesmerga]

I rather like the revolver.

 

[Iron_cube]

Yeah because revolver crit is a lucky sniperrifle.

 

[Druckles]

I dislike the revolver, I could never get used to it. I'd like a deagle of sorts, though.

Some of those ideas are interesting, but probably not easily implemented.

 

[DoctorWeeTodd]

The spy is my favorite class to play...but it is so damn hard because Valve made them sooooo weak!

My ideas:
Hidden camera...barely noticeable object that can be thrown against walls and can viewed through a tiny monitor in the spy's inventory.

Enemy team speak: Allow the spy to access the enemy team chat.

These additions make it possible for the spy to act as an important source of information for his team. Sometimes I feel the spy should be renamed "the saboteur" because there's not much that he can do that involves spying.

Also: In addition to the blank firing I would like to introduced the "blood pack round" that sprays blood decals when hitting members of your own team. It also works when team members hit you. Along with that there should be the blood coagulator which removes blood decals from showing up from you when hit by enemies at the cost of extra damage being dealt.

I would like the hallucinogen bombs and feign death features returned or as this thread suggested a hologram and heart stopper.

I think the cloak feature should turn the spy fully invisible in the beginning and it should get more "predator" like as it drains instead of being visible from the start.

There should also be a "gut stab" feature which would be hard because it's such a small hitbox. Too many of the camping classes simply back up into a corner to avoid being attacked by a spy.

 

[DoctorWeeTodd]

I must be the only person who likes the revolver. It's not very big on capacity or very stealthy but it's a beauty and packs a meaty punch. I've won many sniper duels against...well who else but snipers using that!

 

[Cpt Tenacious]

I really like the idea of faking death.

 

[Crispy]

The spy is my favorite class to play...but it is so damn hard because Valve made them sooooo weak!

My ideas:
Hidden camera...barely noticeable object that can be thrown against walls and can viewed through a tiny monitor in the spy's inventory.

Does not fit the game dynamic. TF2 is played at a fast pace, this is more fitting for a sneak-em-up or slower-paced game.

Enemy team speak: Allow the spy to access the enemy team chat.

Would actually be more annoying than useful, as your own important team messages would disappear off the screen too quickly due to the increased chatter.

These additions make it possible for the spy to act as an important source of information for his team. Sometimes I feel the spy should be renamed "the saboteur" because there's not much that he can do that involves spying.

One of the Spy's roles is to inform his team about key information (which he can get by infiltrating under cloak). You should be doing this before you try to take out ky targets, so if you fail your team know where the biggest threats are.

Also: In addition to the blank firing I would like to introduced the "blood pack round" that sprays blood decals when hitting members of your own team. It also works when team members hit you. Along with that there should be the blood coagulator which removes blood decals from showing up from you when hit by enemies at the cost of extra damage being dealt.

Completely overpowering. Plus this is not intuitive, it is a counter to higher-level play (shooting teammates to see if they are a Spy). TF2 is meant to be fairly WYSIWYG in terms of accessibility.

I would like the hallucinogen bombs and feign death features returned or as this thread suggested a hologram and heart stopper.

If they were in the game before, I'm sure Valve must have thought about this hard before removing it. Therefore there is probably sufficient reason (and probably playtest data) to back them up on this.

I think the cloak feature should turn the spy fully invisible in the beginning and it should get more "predator" like as it drains instead of being visible from the start.

Again, overpowering. This takes a whole layer of forward-thinking away from the Spy. As it is now you have to cloak out of view and then enter the hot zones when your cloak is fully active. If you de-cloak, this feature also stops Spies from instantly disappearing. Without this the Spy would be seriously hard to take down in the hands of a good player.

There should also be a "gut stab" feature which would be hard because it's such a small hitbox. Too many of the camping classes simply back up into a corner to avoid being attacked by a spy.

Other than 'looking cool', what actual enhancement to gameplay does this provide? This goes against TF2's gentle learning curve (imagine if all the pro Spies were just running up to people from the front and gutting them). This would remove the need to approach from behind and be stealthy and make the Spy uncharacteristically twitch.

 

[DoctorWeeTodd]

Does not fit the game dynamic. TF2 is played at a fast pace, this is more fitting for a sneak-em-up or slower-paced game.

If that was so why not remove the spy class altogether. The game can be played in different ways and each person has his/her own style.

Would actually be more annoying than useful, as your own important team messages would disappear off the screen too quickly due to the increased chatter.

There is a scrollbar, when you press y or u.

One of the Spy's roles is to inform his team about key information (which he can get by infiltrating under cloak). You should be doing this before you try to take out ky targets, so if you fail your team know where the biggest threats are.

Yes that is a given.

Completely overpowering. Plus this is not intuitive, it is a counter to higher-level play (shooting teammates to see if they are a Spy). TF2 is meant to be fairly WYSIWYG in terms of accessibility.

The issue issue is that anyone with a brain and trigger finger will blast everyone and everything fifty feet away from him just to check spies. It is nearly impossible to sneak up on let alone get past anyone who is not an engineer, medic or sniper because experienced FPS players, which all TF2 players seem to be will strafe, bunny hop and shoot at anything that moves. This trivializes the whole point of the disguise, for the moment anyone appears on sight they're shot and marked as a spy.

If they were in the game before, I'm sure Valve must have thought about this hard before removing it. Therefore there is probably sufficient reason (and probably playtest data) to back them up on this.

There are new weapons and options coming in on future updates. Hopefully these could be bonus features.

Again, overpowering. This takes a whole layer of forward-thinking away from the Spy. As it is now you have to cloak out of view and then enter the hot zones when your cloak is fully active. If you de-cloak, this feature also stops Spies from instantly disappearing. Without this the Spy would be seriously hard to take down in the hands of a good player.

You use the term overpowering a lot. Considering they're such an underpowered (albeit awesome and fun) class I can't see through your eyes. The moment a cloaked spy is spotted the initial reaction is to pull out an automatic/splash damage weapon and spray and once hit, the cloak becomes fully visible and then it's a matter of when not if the spy dies. Cloaking is trivial when in range.

Other than 'looking cool', what actual enhancement to gameplay does this provide? This goes against TF2's gentle learning curve (imagine if all the pro Spies were just running up to people from the front and gutting them). This would remove the need to approach from behind and be stealthy and make the Spy uncharacteristically twitch.

You said it yourself that it'll look cool. I'm adding this in because, only a few months into it's release players are finding...exploiting might I say all sorts of cheap and easy tactics to strike at the weaknesses of arguably the weakest class (He is still my favorite!) I see experienced players all the time back up hug the wall to counteract just in case a spy appears behind them and many times I even see even cleverer engies build dispensers against a corner to stand on so you that you cannot jump on top of them to knife them on the head! This is unfair gameplay which makes the harassment style gameplay of the spy useless. An option to deal a crit hit from the front is welcome in my eyes. Again, I am not talking about overpowering the spy I'm giving options. You still need to sneak up and deal damage but the gut shot would be a last resort. The hitbox I imagine is TINY, imagine the size of a liver or kidney! Against a moving experience player you must be skilled or lucky to even get that close to deal a melee attack, let alone deal the critial hit to the gut hitbox!

 

[PvtRyan]

Spies should be able to instantly sap stickybombs.

 

[Mahalis]

The hitbox I imagine is TINY, imagine the size of a liver or kidney! Against a moving experience player you must be skilled or lucky to even get that close to deal a melee attack, let alone deal the critial hit to the gut hitbox!

You play Spy a lot, it seems - do you somehow miss the massive amounts of bitching that people do about "facestabs"? The hitbox stuff just does not work well enough for a "tiny" one to be anything more than one more place for an unskilled Spy to get lucky.

 

[Druckles]

Some good points and some bad points. The blood decals aren't that necessary, as it would confuse things quite a bit. People don't tend to shoot around at everyone alot, especially in the right situations. Just think of all the times you didn't realise that that guy was a spy until the last minute. And alot of being a spy is not having to be noticed at all. People are quite stupid, and in the fray, not many people will be bothering to check for spies. Just come up from behind them.

I also think sapping sticky bombs is a must. It would definitely give them that extra finish and that extra requirement for teamplay.

And yeah, TF2 can be played as slow as you want it to be played. Rushing it won't always work.

 

[ríomhaire]

People first complained that spys are overpowered. Now they're saying that they're underpowered.

 

[Mahalis]

People first complained that spys are overpowered. Now they're saying that they're underpowered.

That would be because it got weakened. Sappers work more slowly, and cloak, if I'm remembering right, doesn't last as long, as they used to.

 

[xcellerate]

my only complaint about spies is that they are able to sap a sentry more efficiently than an engineer can knock it off + repair it.

That is to say if a spy and engineer are on both sides of a sentry and the engineer is hitting and the spy is sapping, the sentry WILL die.

This scenario has happened before. Often times when my SG is near my respawn, I wont attack the spy because I figure my team will see the spy sapping my sentry and they will kill the spy for me. However, as I've learned...my team is not that observant.

I think the spy sapping should be slightly less effective than the sapper. So if that scenario arises the spy will be FORCED to attack the engineer rather than just sit there jumping around constantly sapping my sg.


After all the entire point of the sapper is so the spy can:

1.) destroy an SG when the engineer is absent
2.) Shut down a SG so the spy can knife (and therefore unclock) without being killed by the sg
3.) TEMPORARILY disable an SG, if that SG is in a high traffic area


So I believe the sapper needs a slight delay on it to give the engineer an extra second or half-second to repair his SG before the spy is able to place another sapper, and because there's a lot of people who are probably going "that's not fair! spies need to be able to instantly sap everything around them!"

You could put the anti-sapper-timer as apart of the SG...so the spy would still be able to instantly sap the sentry/disp/tp, but then if the engineer knocked the sapper off his SG, the SG would have a built in timer before the spy would be able to place another sapper...and this time should only be like a second, JUST enough time for the engineer to repair the damage caused by the sapper.

This way spies won't be able to run up to an SG jumping around in circles planting sappers faster than the engineer can knock them off + heal the sg. I know lots of people think it's easy to just "shoot the spy!" but really, if you miss like 2 or 3 shots there isn't enough time to kill the spy AND repair your stuff.

edit: Currently the spy being used in the method listed above, makes him a kamikaze class. Which is exactly what valve tried to do away with in TF2; remember demos who would run in throwing his det pipes and when you killed him they all exploded? Or how people would throw every grenade they had as soon as their life went below 30? Those were kamikaze tactics we don't have anymore.

 

[DoctorWeeTodd]

You play Spy a lot, it seems - do you somehow miss the massive amounts of bitching that people do about "facestabs"? The hitbox stuff just does not work well enough for a "tiny" one to be anything more than one more place for an unskilled Spy to get lucky.

Facestabbing never seems to work for me. It always requires at least two to three jabs for me to take out an opponent from the front. What works is jumping atop of players to head stab them. I have however out of a fluke gotten backstabs from targets that were facing me and vice versa. It's all due to client/server coincidence I guess.

Sometimes being lucky is what it's all about.

 

[DoctorWeeTodd]

my only complaint about spies is that they are able to sap a sentry more efficiently than an engineer can knock it off + repair it.

That is to say if a spy and engineer are on both sides of a sentry and the engineer is hitting and the spy is sapping, the sentry WILL die.

This scenario has happened before. Often times when my SG is near my respawn, I wont attack the spy because I figure my team will see the spy sapping my sentry and they will kill the spy for me. However, as I've learned...my team is not that observant.

I think the spy sapping should be slightly less effective than the sapper. So if that scenario arises the spy will be FORCED to attack the engineer rather than just sit there jumping around constantly sapping my sg.


After all the entire point of the sapper is so the spy can:

1.) destroy an SG when the engineer is absent
2.) Shut down a SG so the spy can knife (and therefore unclock) without being killed by the sg
3.) TEMPORARILY disable an SG, if that SG is in a high traffic area


So I believe the sapper needs a slight delay on it to give the engineer an extra second or half-second to repair his SG before the spy is able to place another sapper, and because there's a lot of people who are probably going "that's not fair! spies need to be able to instantly sap everything around them!"

You could put the sapper-timer as apart of the SG...so the spy can still sap individual things instantly, but then those items have a built-in delay before the next sapper can be placed.

I never have that problem when I hug my SG and am standing ontop or behind a dispenser. That seems like another incentive to join a class that requires little skill or thought.

 

[Cpt Tenacious]

my only complaint about spies is that they are able to sap a sentry more efficiently than an engineer can knock it off + repair it.

That is to say if a spy and engineer are on both sides of a sentry and the engineer is hitting and the spy is sapping, the sentry WILL die.

This scenario has happened before. Often times when my SG is near my respawn, I wont attack the spy because I figure my team will see the spy sapping my sentry and they will kill the spy for me. However, as I've learned...my team is not that observant.

I think the spy sapping should be slightly less effective than the sapper. So if that scenario arises the spy will be FORCED to attack the engineer rather than just sit there jumping around constantly sapping my sg.


After all the entire point of the sapper is so the spy can:

1.) destroy an SG when the engineer is absent
2.) Shut down a SG so the spy can knife (and therefore unclock) without being killed by the sg
3.) TEMPORARILY disable an SG, if that SG is in a high traffic area


So I believe the sapper needs a slight delay on it to give the engineer an extra second or half-second to repair his SG before the spy is able to place another sapper, and because there's a lot of people who are probably going "that's not fair! spies need to be able to instantly sap everything around them!"

You could put the anti-sapper-timer as apart of the SG...so the spy would still be able to instantly sap the sentry/disp/tp, but then if the engineer knocked the sapper off his SG, the SG would have a built in timer before the spy would be able to place another sapper...and this time should only be like a second, JUST enough time for the engineer to repair the damage caused by the sapper.

This way spies won't be able to run up to an SG jumping around in circles planting sappers faster than the engineer can knock them off + heal them. I know lots of people think it's easy to just "shoot the spy!" but really, if you miss like 2 or 3 shots there isn't enough time to kill the spy AND repair your stuff.

Oh lawd yes I hate when that shit happens.

 

[Sam]

You play Spy a lot, it seems - do you somehow miss the massive amounts of bitching that people do about "facestabs"? The hitbox stuff just does not work well enough for a "tiny" one to be anything more than one more place for an unskilled Spy to get lucky.

I play spy a fair bit and while I've been on the receiving end of facestabs, I don't think I've ever gotten someone with one. I think they happen if the spy starts the backstab animation (as opposed to the slash) that it will always be an instant kill. However, I've been killed by a sentry from low health when I've been stabbing someone (the backstab is slower than the slash I think), which is irritating as hell.

People backed into a corner can be stabbed. The backstab hitbox is slightly larger than 90 degrees I think, since you can take out snipers like that with a stab partly from the side.

 

[Operational]

That is to say if a spy and engineer are on both sides of a sentry and the engineer is hitting and the spy is sapping, the sentry WILL die.

That's a good thing otherwise you get stalemates which ultimately means that the spy hasn't done anything.

In scenarios where it's too hard/impossible to backstab the engineer after sapping, continually sapping while trying to live as long as possible to do damage is the spies only recourse. These scenarios are very common, for example whenever more than one engineer is in the same area.

 

[xcellerate]

That's a good thing otherwise you get stalemates which ultimately means that the spy hasn't done anything.

In scenarios where it's too hard/impossible to backstab the engineer after sapping, continually sapping while trying to live as long as possible to do damage is the spies only recourse. These scenarios are very common, for example whenever more than one engineer is in the same area.

but that's exactly the point, the sapper isn't designed to be used like the shotgun or rocket launcher. It's supposed to a 'place it and knife the engie or run away' kinda weapon.

The sapper is designed to be effective against engies who left their SG alone/died or as a distraction so the spy can knife the engie. But because of this small mistake spies ARE using it like a shotgun.

The only scenario I could imagine where you couldn't stab an engie would be if he cornered himself with a sg in front and disp on the side. But you could probably jump on his head and knife him...I would think.

 

[Druckles]

This scenario has happened before. Often times when my SG is near my respawn, I wont attack the spy because I figure my team will see the spy sapping my sentry and they will kill the spy for me. However, as I've learned...my team is not that observant.

Dude, that's the whole point behind it. If the engineer isn't going to kill the spy, and your team isn't observant enough, then the spy wins. That's all there is to it. It's a team game, and if your team isn't that observant, or aren't working together, then you lose. The spy has little else for him, can't you at least feel sorry for him? He's in the middle of an enemy base, all alone, surrounded by people who want to kill him, and there's this pissed off engineer who's trying to sabotage one of the only meanings behind his life. I mean, what else has he got to live for? He can't sab the sentry because the engineer wins, he can't backstab the engineer, because the sentry will kill him, and he can't run away, because the engineer will kill him! Dude, feel sorry for the poor guy. As soon as he saps the sentry, the engineer is no doubt going to wrench/shotgun his face in!

 

[Darkside55]

You want to improve the spy? Easy: replace TF2 spy with TFC spy. IMPROVED.

Seriously f*ck the revolver. I don't need that shit and frankly it's a mark of high disgrace; if you're using something like the revolver you're a poor spy. The tranq gun, there was a gun. That's a gun that sets it up for your teammates; can you imagine the devastation a tranq'ing spy could wreak in concert with other classes? Enemy scout? Tranq'ed, don't touch my flag; defenders mop him up. Enemy offense? Tranq'ed, and look here comes my friend the pyro. Enemy medic? Tranq'ed, run up on and stabbed. Ain't healing no more! Ditch that PoS revolver and return my tranq gun! FFS, I miss it so.

Spy doesn't need shotgun anymore. Ditto with nailgun; nailgun was only good against sentries and we have sappers now.

Return my ability to feign death. Return my ability to feign death silently. Cloaking is all well and good, but feign death is the true scourge. Even in TF2 where people are mostly being blown up left and right, TFC was like that too, and feign death was STILL the most valuable skill a spy had. Far more valuable than disguising as the enemy, I'll tell you that. What need have you for a disguise when you're a dead body in the corner observing and reporting back to your team, popping up unexpectedly to stab the lone unwary enemy?

Grenades may be out, but give me SOME kind of hallucinogen. An emitter or something, a sticky or a proximity mine, SOMETHING. It's not necessary, but it sure is a nuisance. It's also what you call, "Get away, FAST!" flames and explosions and shotgun blasts and fake rockets blocking your enemy's view, and damaging them to boot...that's deterrence right there. That's clearing yourself an exit route. Spies need exit routes.

 

[Operational]

but that's exactly the point, the sapper isn't designed to be used like the shotgun or rocket launcher. It's supposed to a 'place it and knife the engie or run away' kinda weapon.

It's a kill buildings weapon, if it can't do that when the engineer is present then it's next to useless. If a spy saps a building then the spy must be killed for the building to survive, which is the way it should be. You have it the other way around, the eng must die before the building can die which would lower the effectiveness of the spy too much.

The only scenario I could imagine where you couldn't stab an engie would be if he cornered himself with a sg in front and disp on the side. But you could probably jump on his head and knife him...I would think.

You don't play the spy much do you? In a crowded area with multiple engineers mass sapper chaos is your only chance to destroy any buildings.

 

[Operational]

BTW xcellerate I'm assuming that this is your thread as it has the same wording, you are rather alone in your viewpoint.

 

[xcellerate]

yea that's mine, it would seem I'm all alone here. But also they say the problem has been 'fixed'. I stopped playing engie because of this problem a while ago and I've been all about the pyro since, apparently they've fixed the sapper though.

My bad, I was just saying what I remember being my #1 complaint about spies. Apparently other people had the same complaint because they've fixed it.

 

[CLIKKY]

Thought of an anti spy weapon: a rear vision mirror for the sniper so when he is zoomed in he can see if anything suspicius is happening behind him. If the spy is just given tonnes of good new weapons and made better then it would be easy enough to make alot of anti spy stuff.

 

[Crispy]

If that was so why not remove the spy class altogether. The game can be played in different ways and each person has his/her own style.

The current Spy lives up to his name and fits the fast pace of TF2. If he played at a slower pace he simply wouldn't be able to keep up with the other fast-paced classes.

There is a scrollbar, when you press y or u.

It's not on by default, and if it is on it obscures the screen.

This trivializes the whole point of the disguise, for the moment anyone appears on sight they're shot and marked as a spy.

The disguise still buys you valuable seconds when a sentry gun cannot lock on to you. This is particularly useful when escaping.

You use the term overpowering a lot. Considering they're such an underpowered (albeit awesome and fun) class I can't see through your eyes. The moment a cloaked spy is spotted the initial reaction is to pull out an automatic/splash damage weapon and spray and once hit, the cloak becomes fully visible and then it's a matter of when not if the spy dies. Cloaking is trivial when in range.

I'm not sure how you go about playing the Spy, but in the right hands he's still pretty damn deadly. I agree he's not the strongest class, but he's by no means the weakest and he has an indispensable role to play in every round on every map.

The hitbox I imagine is TINY, imagine the size of a liver or kidney! Against a moving experience player you must be skilled or lucky to even get that close to deal a melee attack, let alone deal the critial hit to the gut hitbox!

Firstly, as you say you'd most likely have to be lucky to get a crit for landing a hit here. You are therefore proffering a situation where a player can get killed by luck. Secondly, with a hitbox this small, lag will become a massive factor in deciding if a player hits or not. Thirdly, they would have to change the hitbox significantly to implement this item. Suffice to say, this wouldn't work out that well.

 

[Mahalis]

Thought of an anti spy weapon: a rear vision mirror for the sniper so when he is zoomed in he can see if anything suspicius is happening behind him. If the spy is just given tonnes of good new weapons and made better then it would be easy enough to make alot of anti spy stuff.

That'd be silly. A good sniper is strafing back and forth constantly, and if they get blocked by something (e.g. a spy) they damn well turn around and shoot it.

 

[McCoy]

EMP sapper. Secondary fire on your sapper that sends out an electromagnetic pulse that blows up sticky bombs and disables any buildings for 3 seconds. Only used while disguised, and makes it so you cannot switch weapons until after the 3 seconds are up.


:|