Steam is slowing HL2 ! Benchmarks here

[johnbames]

Hi, here is a copy of a thread I posted over at the Steampowered Forums. It was not meant to be offensive but to open a real issue. Guess they didn't like it as it was removed after 10 minutes by a moderator and I am now completely banned from Steampowered forums ! Cannot even read them :cheese:
It seems Valve is very open to the comments of their customers...

Here it is (hopefully I typed it in Notepad and did not close it yet):

"Hello,

Wanted to share my experience with you, as it raised some issues that, in my opinion, should be answered by Valve.

I installed HL2 2 days ago, with a lot of problems and frustration during install that I will not detail here because there are already so many posts abouts all this.

After a few hours of play of the excellent game HL2, I was still marginally pissed off about Steam by my 'bad install frustration', so I decided that my life would certainly be happier without Steam on my machine. I dug up an (unofficial) patch allowing to start HL2 without Steam. In fact, this patch was a loader that would execute the GCF files bypassing Steam in the process.

Now, what was my my surprise when I discovered that the game loaded MUCH FASTER this way and that the in game STUTTERING WAS GONE !

To fix the ideas, here are some benchmarks on my 3.2GHZ Intel, 1GB RAM. Each was chronometered after a cold Win XP start followed by a 5 min wait (to ensure that WinXP had really finished scraping the HD). Steam was in offline mode.

*) Start the game (from clicking on the launch button to the main menu) :
- Through Steam : 1 min 52 sec
- without Steam : 53 sec
and that includes a 5sec pause for the Valve animation.

*) Start a new game (from the menu to appearance of the "half-life²" logo) :
- With Steam : 2 min 25 sec
- Without Steam : 1 min 35 sec

*) Exiting the game (from the "half-life²" logo to the desktop, waiting for complete redraw and stop of heavy HD activity (which happen at the same time BTW)) :
- With Steam : 51 sec
- Without Steam : 7 sec

This is very consistent, and the update of today changed nothing at all...

In game Stuttering also disappeared, as saving hardly stops the game for a fraction of a second, and quickloading in the same level is done in under 3 sec (about 20 before). This I like very much, as i like to test funny approaches to some situations, and I often happen to restart the same 'battle' more than 10 times, just for fun...

I think Valve should clearly explain what Steam is doing ! It is not normal to force an unsolicited program upon customers, especially when it is impairing the game experience like that !

Look at it this way : legit users get annoyed, while people using pirated copies finally get a smoother, faster and better game experience, that is really unfair !!!!

So please, Valve, make the use of Steam officially optional for offline play !

In the meantime, I downgrade my opinion about Steam from 'an unsolicited collection of annoyances' to 'an unwanted downright pile of s**t'

And thanx again to the maker of that excellent loader )"

That's it... And please don't spam me with replies like "Piracy is bad" and the like. That is not the point, I bought the game, and, under the laws of my country, am perfectly entitled to modify it for my own, private use...

The point is : Steam may well be the cause of a part of the performance problems that a lot of people are reporting.

And now, it seems to me that Valve is just hiding the problem from their customers... that plain sux ! ;( :angry:

 

[semi-psychotic]

I dug up an (unofficial) patch allowing to start HL2 without Steam.

There's why you were banned. I guess Valve didn't want anybody else getting ideas, despite how your post was relatively harmless and probably benevolent.

 

[luketabor]

that's why i'm going to unsteam mine soon (no illegal patch, loader, etc). i've seen the directions before, but i can't find them now and would appreciate some help via PM.

mods, if I'm not allowed to ask this, please just edit and don't ban me. i'm unclear on this rule, since I'm not pirating (I own it, and I'm asking for a PM, not public posting of the instructions)

 

[destrukt]

i doubt steam alters ingame performance but those others you said make sense.

 

[The Mullinator]

Check the news:
http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62001

Steam was causing performance problems for Half-Life 2 (probably still is causing a few) but the most recent version of Steam has alot of those patched.

 

[johnbames]

Benevolent, not totally, I also wanted to put an extra argument to the "Steam is S**T, please Valve, remove it !" point of view

but sadly enough, it seems that Valve just joined the "Bill Gates Private Club of Select People who Want to Take Full Totalitarian Control over the World" :-(

 

[Roland Deschain]

Yeah, kinda sad that Valve must do that, but wait till other companies start duplicating steam badly, then the real headache will begin.

 

[luketabor]

Ugh...the day EA comes out with their own version of Steam will cause an end to normal PC gaming as we know it. The first huge company like that who does that will make it so every company does it. And it will spell doom.

 

[GorgeousOrifice]

And please don't spam me with replies like "Piracy is bad" and the like. That is not the point, I bought the game, and, under the laws of my country, am perfectly entitled to modify it for my own, private use...

You may want to take a closer look at your Steam Subscriber Agreement.

 

[luketabor]

yeah, but who reads those anyway

 

[johnbames]

i doubt steam alters ingame performance but those others you said make sense.

In-game in the sense of FPS ? No, I don't think it has any impact, except for the sttutututututtering when the game autosaves or loads some parts of textures or sounds.

For me, the issue is probably due to Steam interfering with Windows HD file cache. Maybe it is scanning the files or something like that...

And as I said, the last update did little to help, except maybe quitting the game seems a little faster...

 

[giant384]

he does

 

[giant384]

it can be a problem to because steam uses some alot of cpu power while running hl2 with steam running in background

 

[johnbames]

You may want to take a closer look at your Steam Subscriber Agreement.

You may want to take a closer look at the Belgian law !

I am allowed to modify any software I have licensed to correct issues for my own private use...

 

[Chris D]

You may want to take a closer look at the Belgian law !

I am allowed to modify any software I have licensed to correct issues for my own private use...

Valve are also allowed to attempt to prosecute you for breaching that agreement.

 

[johnbames]

Valve are also allowed to attempt to prosecute you for breaching that agreement.

Again, not under the Belgian law. It specifically forbids the publisher to limit the right of the users to modify the software for their own private use.... any term in the EULA that woud specify that would be void under Belgian law..


But back to benchmarking : it seems that the new patch is doing something after all :
New chronos with Steam :
-Launch the game : 1 min 40 sec. Cosmetic improvement.
-Start a new game : 1 min 42 sec. That is a huge improvement, now it is on par with the loader...
-leave the game : 39 sec : better, but still way slower than the loader...

So Valve is working on this issue, which is a rather good news after all... Why didn't they just answer that ? :dozey:

 

[The Mullinator]

So Valve is working on this issue, which is a rather good news after all... Why didn't they just answer that ? :dozey:

What would be the point? I almost never come across developers who say what they are currently working on fixing, plus what good would it do?

 

[SpoonCrab!]

Well honestly the developers couldnt say that there working on it because if the problem wasnt fixed and they had it in writting somewhere that they were going to fix it, its most likely someone could sue them for something to do with it

 

[jameth]

Again, not under the Belgian law. It specifically forbids the publisher to limit the right of the users to modify the software for their own private use.... any term in the EULA that woud specify that would be void under Belgian law..

can you provide a source for this information? i'm not doubting your word...wait, yes i am.

 

[Cons Himself]

Well my friend is a qualified UK lawyer and he says this:

Although you have been granted a licence to use the software, ie as part of the contract (EULA), contracts by definition cannot contradict common law.

That is to say, I could not draw up a contract with Chris_D stating that if he ever posts on these forums again then I can punch him in the face - that is still common assault.

Likewise if the country's own law enshrines that modifying IP for personal use is acceptable, they are not bound under Valve's EULA drawn up under the law in the State of Washington, where it isn't.

have a nice day

 

[Splinter16]

That doesn't really make sense, maybe its just the examples you've used, so your saying that the law in Washington says your allowed to modify your IP, it doesn't just not mention not being allowed to change your IP, if you know what I mean.

 

[Splinter16]

Oh and in regards to the thread, Steam uses a proportion of RAM, which explains the load times probably, and I doubt you can edit. If what you where saying is true, I could buy HL2, find a country (if one exsits) that doesn't have laws for electronic information, and make pirated copies of HL2 and theres nothing that could be done about it. Even though I've agreed to the EULA.

 

[Cons Himself]

so your saying that the law in Washington says your allowed to modify your IP, it doesn't just not mention not being allowed to change your IP, if you know what I mean.

no, actually. i really don't.

 

[FISKER_Q]

Sure, how can this be a surprise to people?

The "non-steam" release is basically a emulated steam, which is why you do not use any other resources other than what the game need to run.

Whereas with the steam copy there will be more program code to slow the game down. However there is of course room for improvements.

Windows without software is also quicker than Windows with software.

And despite the law Valve can terminate his account if they want to. Screw belgian law, if he thinks he got a case to get his account, then he can fly to seattle and try the case in court, but then there's no such thing as "belgian law".

And i'm pretty sure that the USA wouldn't agree to any delivery of american person based on a private lawsuit.

Edit: And yes Chris_D is right, Valve can start a lawsuit if they want to.

 

[nagual678]

wether this was discovered legally or not is not anymore the point.

the point is to know what steam really does. all i can see is a menu to launch games (somewhat handy) and an automatic updater for those. i don't see what could slow down my computer.

 

[Cons Himself]

Fisker Q stop being an idiot.

Sure, if Valve terminate his account the only way he can take them to court is in the state of Washington.

But, all im saying is that Valve cant prosecute him for using cracked version of Steam if he has bought the licence. They cant prosecute him under Belgian Law and they sure as hell cant extradite someone to the USA due to contractual problems.....

although no doubt the FBI will try to accuse him of being an e-t3rr0r1st yus yus!!111

 

[FISKER_Q]

wether this was discovered legally or not is not anymore the point.

the point is to know what steam really does. all i can see is a menu to launch games (somewhat handy) and an automatic updater for those. i don't see what could slow down my computer.

content files, cache, activations, copy protections, and of course less optimization.

And there's probably even a lot more to it than that.

 

[nagual678]

content files, cache, activations, copy protections, and of course less optimization.

And there's probably even a lot more to it than that.

content files and cache ? this should is handled by the game, as it has been somewhat proven - desteamed versions do work.
activation ? well, i enter my serial number .. and that's it. don't see anything relevant.
copy protection, however, is an interesting question. it would be very instructive to know how far steam goes on copy protection (obviously not far enough, but that's another matter).

but even now, i can't see anything slowing down computers that much.

 

[Cons Himself]

its the UIs from winblows - when u leave them open they eat up RAM and CPU....

 

[Unfocused]

I would really suck if Valve sued someone that bought the game for using a no-steam patch to improve their gaming experience. What's the point? No harm done.

 

[FISKER_Q]

Fisker Q stop being an idiot.

Sure, if Valve terminate his account the only way he can take them to court is in the state of Washington.

But, all im saying is that Valve cant prosecute him for using cracked version of Steam if he has bought the licence. They cant prosecute him under Belgian Law and they sure as hell cant extradite someone to the USA due to contractual problems.....

although no doubt the FBI will try to accuse him of being an e-t3rr0r1st yus yus!!111

Of course they can prosecute him, in the court in belgium. And it shouldn't be hard to figure out that if it's legal he will not be penalized by belgian law?

I'm not being an idiot Chris_D said that Valve could attempt to prosecute him(He did NOT say they would win, or that it would be justified)

content files and cache ? this should is handled by the game, as it has been somewhat proven - desteamed versions do work.
activation ? well, i enter my serial number .. and that's it. don't see anything relevant.
copy protection, however, is an interesting question. it would be very instructive to know how far steam goes on copy protection (obviously not far enough, but that's another matter).

but even now, i can't see anything slowing down computers that much.

Game loading times are included in the "benchmarks" Also game exiting times may be part of caching and content files as it would probably have to clear the cache or memory.

Whereas the illegal version could let Windows handle it.

It's kinda the same as the allocation of filespace, either you can force a rewrite of a file(to be empty) or you can just initialize the files in 0(Meaning that you basically tell the filesystem that there's nothing in the file even though there's leftovers from other files)

The total rewrite of course takes it's time, whereas the other method takes seconds.

 

[Cons Himself]

valve couldnt do that to people living in countries like Germany where you are allowed to modify IP for your own personal use...

 

[CriYam]

I've used a loader from 2 days after getting HL2.

I installed HL2,was having fun then I was abruptly brought to my desktop with the message "lost connection with steam". excuse me? I'm playing SP which has been validated and you need to be connected?

As soon as found a loader I noticed how much better everything ran. And then the damn jbmod came out and I had to update lol.

Anyways, Valve can come after me. They can fly into my country and watch the judge laugh at them.


edit: They may never fix it, look at EQ's loader, it still uses %100 of your cpu cycles.

 

[footsteps]

Those are very interesting numbers. When I load steam, it takes up ~20mb of my 1gb of ram. If I start hl2 and quit, steam will have doubled in size to an incredible 40mb of precious ram. This doesn't make any sense.

Anyone remember the atrocious bugs the older versions of steam had? One version completely nuked all my .GCFs for no apparent reason. Another would take up all my RAM upon loading and cause windows to crash. While recent versions are much improved, I believe steam is still a major culprit in many of the hl2 problems people are suffering.

Unfortunately, it's here to stay.

EDIT: I wish they'd add an option to disable skins in steam.

 

[Cons Himself]

Of course they can prosecute him, in the court in belgium. And it shouldn't be hard to figure out that if it's legal he will not be penalized by belgian law?

I'm not being an idiot Chris_D said that Valve could attempt to prosecute him(He did NOT say they would win, or that it would be justified)

yawn....no Fisker, wrong again, Valve cant prosecute people, they cant bring criminal charges against people, or claim a grievance with whatever the equivalent of the Crown Prosecution Service is in Belgium because there is no grievance under Belgian law. They could try to sue him in Belgian courts, which they would not win since there are no grounds to (ie, no loss of earnings etc) and he has already bought their product, but not prosecute him.

 

[fez]

any1 who pld cs 1.5 will have seen the performance hit after cs moved to steam/1.6. even tho they didnt update the game engine, i get 100fps constantly in 1.5 where in 1.6 it goes from 90-60.

they really need to sort steam out

 

[Computer5k]

You may want to take a closer look at the Belgian law !

I am allowed to modify any software I have licensed to correct issues for my own private use...

You do not have a license to the software. You have a licence to use it as long as you don' break the EULA, which you did

 

[Cons Himself]

Computer5k is right, you broke the EULA, but Valve cannot prosecute you due to Belgian law. They can however terminate your acount.

However, they wont. The only way Valve cancels accounts is for CC fraud or if you get caught by VAC for hacking. Oh and the recent thing where a few dumbasses thought they could get HL2 for free - another form of fraud.

 

[Ari de Verci]

You do not have a license to the software. You have a licence to use it as long as you don' break the EULA, which you did

No, he didn't. In case a clause in EULA contradicts common law, it's void.

Actually, where I live it's legal to reverse engineer software.

 

[Cons Himself]

But Valve can still revoke the licence as it is drawn up under the law in the state of Washington

What they cant do, is prosecute someone for voiding a contract which contradicts common law.