Textbook censorship. Hooray, hooray.

[Mechagodzilla]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=230700

Seems a bit sad to me that Texas, having banned both gay marriage and civil unions, has now gone the extra step of teaching children that gay marriages and civil unions do not exist.
This will be a forerunner of the eventual legislation that gays (and 'metrosexuals') can be shot on sight "no questions asked".

Well, ABC didn't report that bit, but I can see it happening at this rate if the trend picks up. Texas don't like no gays.

Apparently the gov would not approve educational materials that so much as hinted that there was more than one way to marry.
Yep, even though it is an absolute fact that gay marriages do take place right now across the world, and could very well end up happening elsewheres in the US, Texas is modifying their textbooks to teach kids that marriage can only be between one man and one woman.
Goodbye, facts. Hello religious influence over a secular educational institution:

Board member Terri Leo, a Republican, said she was pleased with the publishers' changes. She had led the effort to get the publishers to change the texts, objecting to what she called "asexual stealth phrases" such as "individuals who marry."
[...]
Neither publisher added all the changes Leo initially pushed for. For instance, one proposed passage in the teacher's editions read: "Opinions vary on why homosexuals, lesbians and bisexuals as a group are more prone to self-destructive behaviors like depression, illegal drug use, and suicide."

I'd let Terri Leo teach my kids, wouldn't you? Of course, some in the "liberal elite" disagree:

Board member Mary Helen Berlanga, a Democrat, asked the panel to approve the books without the changes, but her proposal was rejected on a 10-4 vote.

"We're not supposed to make changes at somebody's whim," Berlanga said. "It's a political agenda, and we're not here to follow a political agenda."

Boo! If we can't edit innaccuracies into educational materials just to further a political agenda, what can we do?

 

[Neutrino]

:x

I am seriously getting sick of this shit.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Oh jesus, we really should protest this. Honestly.

 

[Maxi]

I like the us, and wan't my children to be taught in texas.

 

[Korgoth]

Oh their God.
And I say their God, becasue that is their driving force, and you know what, their God is completely different from the one I believe. The one I put my faith in is all loving, caring, forgiving, not homophobic, and pissed.
People who go to these extremes just because someone is different than them, just makes me shed a tear for humanity.

 

[el Chi]

That's disgusting. And how the hell did they ban civil unions!?

 

[Absinthe]

Disgusted, but not surprised.

 

[CptStern]

just another example of bush's "moral america" at work ..wont be surprised when they bring back the lords prayer in public school

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Oh, I'll have a say in that...

 

[hasan]

eh? they just redefined marrige.
what's so wrong with that?
what actually annoys me is that in canada they teach kids at school that gayness is normal. now THAT is wrong.

 

[CptStern]

it is normal

 

[burnzie]

it isn't normal.

If you look at it in the most basic form. You are supposed to mate with the opposet sex, its how it works on the "species" level. We wouldnt survive if everyone was gay...

 

[CptStern]

it isn't normal.

If you look at it in the most basic form. You are supposed to mate with the opposet sex, its how it works on the "species" level. We wouldnt survive if everyone was gay...

ah but mother nature allows for variances of species especially when resources are plentiful and over population is a threat

 

[TheGGMan]

yes and the fact other animals are gay. its liek saying being lazy isnt normal because it doesnt contribute to the species

THINK

doesnt surprise tbh, religoun is mostly a means of control over a society ergo this is why all surviving communities have it

 

[Absinthe]

As was pointed out earlier, homosexuality is indeed normal on a biological level.

It's also normal on a social level as well.

 

[Death.Trap]

I like the us, and wan't my children to be taught in texas.

I would have to agree.

EDIT-I'll debate this later...I'm to damn tired to be bothered right now =/

 

[burner69]

As a species we are born bi-sexual. So there goes your argument of gay not being 'natural'.

If you're suggesting homosexuality is wrong because it can't produce babies I ask people here - does everyone have sex to have a baby? Erm... I don't. I it is the general consensus that most of the time sex is for enjoyment.

If anybody has any anti-homosexual views they wish to debate on, I'm sure you'll find there are many people here willing to debate you.

Making kids blind to the world is sick, it'll just confuse them when they encounter a homosexual, and likely make them ignorant homophobics as they grow older.

As for considering teaching kids that gays are more prone to depression/ illegal drug use etc, though I'd question if it were true, I'm sure if it is it stems from being picked on by their own government time and time again.

You're country is already taking a step backwards, after less than a week. I find it disturbing.

 

[LAYP]

I wonder if we will meet a day when we all sit around a fire snort a grunt and call each other fags. Should be a week from now..

America's state sadness me, 4 more years then I get to vote.

 

[Dem0nEgg]

Dddddoouble think?

 

[hasan]

pfft .. no it isn't normal. and this gay gene doesn't exist. have proof it exists? post a link.
I'm sure most people have no proof, they were just fed in school that gays are born that way and that it's not fair bla bla ..
but truth is, there is not much scintific support for this, and the little that exists can be easily debated (not by me, mind you, I'm not a scientist, but I'm trying to say there is no solid evidence and no one can claim it's a scientific fact).

So, what I want to know is: what is wrong with defining marrige as a relation ship between a wife and a husband?!
wow .. just because there are marriges between gays doesn't mean we have to redefine marrige to fit gays.
and just because we are triyng to redefine marrige to be between males and females .. that doesn't mean we are saying "there are no married gays", truth is, there are gays who are legally considered married.

There is a huge difference between defining marrige, and sayign that there are no gays who are legally considered married.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

hasan, homosexuality is found in biology outside of humans. taking this as a given, how do you maintain that homosexuality is not "normal"? what do you mean by that?

 

[Death.Trap]

hasan, homosexuality is found in biology outside of humans. taking this as a given, how do you maintain that homosexuality is not "normal"? what do you mean by that?

Yes but unlike other animals who do not "think" and posses no consience(sp?) we have a choice in what we do.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

so are you arguing that homosexuals should suppress homosexual urges, in spite of nature?

also, to contend that no other animal beside humans possess self-awareness in a bit conceited.. at best you could say they possess a different sentience.

 

[aeroripper]

Man i can't wait until bush and his regime have book burnings against anything that offends his viewpoint.

Anybody want to see how to setup absoulte control in america? Add things like this to the list

 

[Death.Trap]

so are you arguing that homosexuals should suppress homosexual urges, in spite of nature?

also, to contend that no other animal beside humans possess self-awareness in a bit conceited.. at best you could say they possess a different sentience.

Yes Timmy, that's exactly what I'm saying. I have a homosexual cousin. He doesn't engage in any sexual activity with other guys because he believes it's wrong. If he can do it, why can't anyone else?

 

[LAYP]

Because what is the need to? Why does he believe its wrong?

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Yes Timmy, that's exactly what I'm saying. I have a homosexual cousin. He doesn't engage in any sexual activity with other guys because he believes it's wrong. If he can do it, why can't anyone else?

If he doesn't want to, that's his choice, whatever his motivation.

However, you can't possibly expect tens of thousands of american citizens to give up sex just because other people don't enjoy sex. That's insane.

I don't enjoy reading the bible, but I would never ban it.
"I found the bible is boring. If I can ban myself from the bible, why would christians get mad if I banned it from them>?"

eh? they just redefined marrige.
what's so wrong with that?

Because they redefined it into a way that is factually incorrect. The US government is censoring the truth out of education! I can't see how you'd be for it.

Let's say I hate jam sandwiches, and I'm on the school board.
I just changed every reference to sandwiches to make it absolutely clear that no sandwich can ever contain jam.
People might want jam, and people across the world eat jam sandwiches all the time.
However, I am teaching small children that jam does not exist, just to further my selfish agenda against a harmless product.
This is only a partial victory for me of course. I had pushed for other edits too, like adding the sentence: "Opinions differ as to how jam causes cancer."

Stalin had books censored to remove all reference to people who opposed him. Those who neglect history are doomed to repeat it.

what actually annoys me is that in canada they teach kids at school that gayness is normal. now THAT is wrong.

Alright, lets just for a minute concede the baseless notion that gays are "not normal".

Isn't decrying them as abnormal the same as punishing gays for being different?
Since gays are basically the same as any other human in society except in irrelevant cultural practices, abnormal is just another word for 'different' in this case.

I've gathered from your posts that you are an iraqi living in Canada.
How would you react if the canadian government passed a law to prevent you from ever marrying anyone?
After all, you are different too, because of your race and because of your religion.

By choosing to marry in a way that many christians do not agree with, gays have essentially created their own religious belief system.
You support the abolishment of a key part of their belief system, just because they are not the same as you.

Oh, gays can't procreate? Then they chose a life of procreational celibacy. That is thier choice. We won't force them to have straight sex because they chose a lifestyle that is different.
Either they chose, or they are born different than you, like how I was born white.

Be it tantamount to religious or to racial persecution, gays are being discriminated against solely because they are different.

That's what's called racism.

Gays may not be normal to you, but you're not normal to me either. There's this place called reality, and in it, everyone is different.
Normalcy is abnormal, since nothing is uniform.
So, you can either accept that no-one is normal, or you can continue to fight the facts and hurt people through your support of a comforting lie.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

If he doesn't want to, that's his choice, whatever his motivation.

However, you can't possibly expect tens of thousands of american citizens to give up sex just because other people don't enjoy sex. That's insane.

more to the point, and to expand upon what LAYP was talking about. the real point here is that death.trap's cousin doesn't do it because he personally feels it's wrong. obviously, this says nothing about the wrongness or rightness of the act itself. to examne that, one has to appeal to either biology or social authority (religion, government, etc.). personally, i don't think social authority has any right to decree a position unless it's well-supported by facts. the fact is that homosexuality is a normal part of biology.

humans can choose to do any number of things, i can choose to run people over on the sidewalks with my jeep.. does that make it right?

EDIT: but, this is a somewhat separate discussion for homosexual marriage. marriage itself is entirely a social construct. most mammals, humans inclided, are monogamous over short terms, and polygynous over their lifetimes.. a bit of a precedent for the instituion of marriage, but not much. in any case, homosexual animals for pair bonds as readily as heterosexual ones. so it doens't say much one way or the other.

it seems to me that homosexual marriage should be decided within the realm of societal rule, and we as a society need to determine if we are more interested in defending a heterosexual monopoly on marriage and it's benefits or in defending the civil rights of all of our citizens.

 

[Kangy]

Homosexuality is normal and natural.

Humanity has specific genes in place to prevent destruction of humanity through homosexuality, and it's all over the animal kingdom.
Anyone opposing this due to religion disgusts me, as supposedly, America isn't tied to the Church.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

humans can choose to do any number of things, i can choose to run people over on the sidewalks with my jeep.. does that make it right?

That point draws an interesting comparison.
Freedom has its limits at the exact point where other's freedoms are infringed. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Running over people with a jeep, for example, infringes on thier freedom to live and be happy. So, to preserve freedom, America outlaws vehicular manslaughter.

Now let's look at the sides of the gay marriage argument:

-Gays, by seeking marriage, infringe on none of thse freedoms.
-Supporters of the constitutional ban, however, infringe on gay's liberties and their pursuit of happiness.

So, a vote against the gay definition of marriage is simultaneously a vote against american freedom.

Or, in other words, banning gay marriage is akin to hitting someone with a jeep:
It shouldn't be allowed, even if 60% of midwestern americans want to.

 

[Lil' Timmy]

animals run each other over with their jeeps.. i should be allowed to too you ****ing bigot! :angry: :flame:





:angel:

 

[burner69]

*Claps MechaGodzilla*

And guys, I would be very interested if anybody can find answers for illegalising gay marriage after that post which are actually logical and make any form of sense.

Because, you can't.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

I'm sorry timmeh!
I'll vote for the zebra-murderjeep ammendment the minute I become an American citizen.

And burner69, that's my 150$ theory, as expressed through my signature.
So far, no argument has even come close to winning the big prize, and only one person has even bothered to try.

 

[CptStern]

I'm sorry timmeh!
I'll vote for the zebra-murderjeep ammendment the minute I become an American citizen.

And burner69, that's my 150$ theory, as expressed through my signature.
So far, no argument has even come close to winning the big prize, and only one person has even bothered to try.

pffft that's an easy one:

"..cuz divorce is expensive" ...I'll take cash, no cheques please :thumbs:

 

[burner69]

I'm sorry timmeh!
I'll vote for the zebra-murderjeep ammendment the minute I become an American citizen.

And burner69, that's my 150$ theory, as expressed through my signature.
So far, no argument has even come close to winning the big prize, and only one person has even bothered to try.

I think your money's safe.

 

[hasan]

Because they redefined it into a way that is factually incorrect. The US government is censoring the truth out of education! I can't see how you'd be for it.

They are not saying there are no gays who are married, they are saying marrige is something between males and females. nowhere do they claim that there doesn't exist in the world people who have different difenition of marrige or people who allow gay marriges.

Let's say I hate jam sandwiches, and I'm on the school board.
I just changed every reference to sandwiches to make it absolutely clear that no sandwich can ever contain jam.
People might want jam, and people across the world eat jam sandwiches all the time.
However, I am teaching small children that jam does not exist, just to further my selfish agenda against a harmless product.

you are not teaching anyone that there are no people who put jam in sandwitch, you are saying if there is a jam between two breads then it's better be called something other than sandwitch.

I had pushed for other edits too, like adding the sentence: "Opinions differ as to how jam causes cancer."

well, when you make a claim about something, it's better be true, that's the criterian.
so, if that statement is correct, there is nothing wrong with it.
if it's not, then it's a pure lie.

That's kind of interesting, gay lobbies are pushing towards the exact same thing you are claiming to oppose: they are distorting facts according to thier agenda.

1- They teach kids at school that gays are normal.
All people who posted here had nothing to say other than gays are normal, I asked for links but I recieved none. why? becuase most people don't know what they are talking about and are just repeating what they have been spoon-fed at school.
2- They teach kids that any side who opposes thier view is racist, or just like racists. (ideological terrorism)

Alright, lets just for a minute concede the baseless notion that gays are "not normal".

Isn't decrying them as abnormal the same as punishing gays for being different?
Since gays are basically the same as any other human in society except in irrelevant cultural practices, abnormal is just another word for 'different' in this case.

People are not all the same, differences are a normal part of life, everything is different, there are different kinds of people, different kinds of animals, different kinds of fruits .. etc. there are even different "sub-types" of each type of animals and fruits.

Another part of life is right and wrong, some things are right and somethings are wrong. and naturally the concept of differences applies to right and wrong.

So, your argument about gays just being difference an be applied to anything that is wrong.

Let's give it a try:

racist people are different, they have different ideologies, why shouldn't they be allowed? just because you believe in tolerance doesn't mean you can stop people who don't believe in tolerance
from living. why should you teach kids at school that they should tolerate? why don't you let them decide on their own?
and why should you teach kids that racists are bad? why are they bad? they are just different! that's why you hate them1!!!111

/sarcasm

if you have really looked at my older posts, you would relize that I think gayness is psychological, and can be reversed.
It should be treated as some psychological illness that needs to be treated, just like drug addicts need to be treated.

btw, gayness doesn't have a direct harm on anyone, but in the long run, it harms the whole society.
It's one of those things liek alcolhol, adultery .. and all kinds of other things. when you drink alcohol in your basement, you have no direct effect on me. but in the long run, you'll have a negative effect on your children, and your family.
when you promote alcohol, you are spreading this illness to society, after a generation or two, you get a society with all sorts of social problems.
just to give an example.

How would you react if the canadian government passed a law to prevent you from ever marrying anyone?
After all, you are different too, because of your race and because of your religion.

gayness is -like a said - not a race nor a religion.

By choosing to marry in a way that many christians do not agree with, gays have essentially created their own religious belief system.
You support the abolishment of a key part of their belief system, just because they are not the same as you.

Can a drugs society (society, i.e. as in a group) be considered a differnt beliefe system because they are people who believe in taking drugs?

Be it tantamount to religious or to racial persecution, gays are being discriminated against solely because they are different.

This whole "different" argument doesn't do justice to the topic. It's alot bigger than that.

let me put it on bold:
Gayness destroyes society

Normalcy is abnormal, since nothing is uniform.
So, you can either accept that no-one is normal, or you can continue to fight the facts and hurt people through your support of a comforting lie.

I am getting a feeling that you are one of those people who think there is no such thing as morals, and tht morals are just some sorts of irrational restrictions set by society?

 

[burner69]

They are not saying there are no gays who are married, they are saying marrige is something between males and females. nowhere do they claim that there doesn't exist in the world people who have different difenition of marrige or people who allow gay marriges.


you are not teaching anyone that there are no people who put jam in sandwitch, you are saying if there is a jam between two breads then it's better be called something other than sandwitch.

well, when you make a claim about something, it's better be true, that's the criterian.
so, if that statement is correct, there is nothing wrong with it.
if it's not, then it's a pure lie.

That's kind of interesting, gay lobbies are pushing towards the exact same thing you are claiming to oppose: they are distorting facts according to thier agenda.

1- They teach kids at school that gays are normal.
All people who posted here had nothing to say other than gays are normal, I asked for links but I recieved none. why? becuase most people don't know what they are talking about and are just repeating what they have been spoon-fed at school.
2- They teach kids that any side who opposes thier view is racist, or just like racists. (ideological terrorism)


People are not all the same, differences are a normal part of life, everything is different, there are different kinds of people, different kinds of animals, different kinds of fruits .. etc. there are even different "sub-types" of each type of animals and fruits.

Another part of life is right and wrong, some things are right and somethings are wrong. and naturally the concept of differences applies to right and wrong.

So, your argument about gays just being difference an be applied to anything that is wrong.

Let's give it a try:

racist people are different, they have different ideologies, why shouldn't they be allowed? just because you believe in tolerance doesn't mean you can stop people who don't believe in tolerance
from living. why should you teach kids at school that they should tolerate? why don't you let them decide on their own?
and why should you teach kids that racists are bad? why are they bad? they are just different! that's why you hate them1!!!111

/sarcasm

if you have really looked at my older posts, you would relize that I think gayness is psychological, and can be reversed.
It should be treated as some psychological illness that needs to be treated, just like drug addicts need to be treated.

btw, gayness doesn't have a direct harm on anyone, but in the long run, it harms the whole society.
It's one of those things liek alcolhol, adultery .. and all kinds of other things. when you drink alcohol in your basement, you have no direct effect on me. but in the long run, you'll have a negative effect on your children, and your family.
when you promote alcohol, you are spreading this illness to society, after a generation or two, you get a society with all sorts of social problems.
just to give an example.
gayness is -like a said - not a race nor a religion.
Can a drugs society (society, i.e. as in a group) be considered a differnt beliefe system because they are people who believe in taking drugs?
This whole "different" argument doesn't do justice to the topic. It's alot bigger than that.
Gayness destroyes society


I am getting a feeling that you are one of those people who think there is no such thing as morals, and tht morals are just some sorts of irrational restrictions set by society?

I will now rip your argument to shreds.

1. You are taught things at school. Boys are taught about girls in sex education, if they weren't there might be some people missing out on information not given by parents. They would not be prepared for life as those who had been told. By not telling kids gays can marry too you are hiding the truth from them. Not lying, but not telling the truth.
2. Difference between sandwiches and gay marriage is that now gays CANNOT marry. Now there is not 'another name' for marriage between to gays. There is not marriage at all.
3.That I believe was relating to a topic about drugs we are having elsewhere, I could be wrong.
4. Don't know what you're talking about, please explain.
5. We should teach kids that gay marriage happens, not that it's normal. People have said normal here because; a) it happens, and b) it's easier than saying "it should be allowed to happen because a small number of the population chose to partake in it's practice."
6. By removing people's rights based on the principle of their sexuality is racist. That's pretty much by definition I think. That's why they're called racist, because they are.
7. How is homosexuality wrong? What wrong does it cause?
8. Racist people purposefully hurt people/ marginalise people/ abuse people based on their religion/ race/ sexuality. Homosexuals should not be compared to racists, as their sexual preferences cause no harm.
9. Homosexuality certainly is psychological - it's something in your brain. Every human process is reversable, as many psychologists have shown, you can make a person gay as well with enough psychological experiements done on them. It is NOT an illness. I don't even need to step in on the biological ground, I can simply say, an illness is something that causes harm. Finding people of the same sex attractive does no harm. If it does (other than perhaps getting on the nerves of ignorant people) then please tell me what harm it does.
10. You're final argument made little sense. You are sugesting that having gay families harms society? Please tell me why. Will everyone start bumming eachother and not go to work? Will everyone start attacking you in the street because they want to rape you, because, well, you're a male, and so are they. BS.
Don't just say GAYNESS DESTROYS SOCIETY. Give me some evidence I'll believe you, until then, don't make accusations.
11. Why is it immoral to be gay? Or to allow gays to marry? What harm does it do to them, you, and society? Nothing.

Come back with logical responses, and not igorant personal views based around nothing other than BS.

Until then, stop polluting this thread with backward, racist comments that do far more harm to society than any homosexual marriage ever could.

 

[burner69]

I will now rip your argument to shreds.

1. You are taught things at school. Boys are taught about girls in sex education, if they weren't there might be some people missing out on information not given by parents. They would not be prepared for life as those who had been told. By not telling kids gays can marry too you are hiding the truth from them. Not lying, but not telling the truth.
2. Difference between sandwiches and gay marriage is that now gays CANNOT marry. Now there is not 'another name' for marriage between to gays. There is not marriage at all.
3.That I believe was relating to a topic about drugs we are having elsewhere, I could be wrong.
4. Don't know what you're talking about, please explain.
5. We teach should teach kids that gay marriage happens, not that it's normal. People have said normal here because; a) it happens, and b) it's easier than saying "it should be allowed to happen because a small number of the population chose to partake in it's practice."
6. By removing people's rights based on the principle of their sexuality is racist. That's pretty much by definition I think. That's why they're called racist, because they are.
7. How is homosexuality wrong? What wrong does it cause?
8. Racist people purposefully hurt people/ marginalise people/ abuse people based on their religion/ race/ sexuality. Homosexuals should not be compared to racists, as their sexual preferences cause no harm.
9. Homosexuality certainly is psychological - it's something in your brain. Every human process is reversable, as many psychologists have shown, you can make a person gay as well with enough psychological experiements done on them. It is NOT an illness. I don't even need to step in on the biological ground, I can simply say, an illness is something that causes harm. Finding people of the same sex attractive does no harm. If it does (other than perhaps getting on the nerves of ignorant people) then please tell me what harm it does.
10. You're final argument made little sense. You are sugesting that having gay families harms society? Please tell me why. Will everyone start bumming eachother and not go to work? Will everyone start attacking you in the street because they want to rape you, because, well, you're a male, and so are they. BS.
Don't just say GAYNESS DESTROYS SOCIETY. Give me some evidence I'll believe you, until then, don't make accusations.
11. Why is it immoral to be gay? Or to allow gays to marry? What harm does it do to them, you, and society? Nothing.

Come back with logical responses, and not igorant personal views based around nothing other than BS.

Until then, stop polluting this thread with backward, racist comments that do far more harm to society than any homosexual marriage ever could.

EDIT: Why is sexuality different from race or religion? Please tell me.

 

[hasan]

Come back with logical responses, and not igorant personal views based around nothing other than BS.

Yes .. please do that.

 

[burner69]

Yes .. please do that.

You're funny :cheers: