The ATI x600XT

[Quixoticism]

Anyone who has been following this card should already know how it's review was going to turn out. When I first saw the specs I crossed my fingers and hoped that ATI would get kicked hard in the nuts for this. In all honesty, I would prefer an ATI card over nVidia's just about any day of the week. But this card is basically just a 9600XT with the PCIx bus. 12(only 12!!! not 16) pipelines on the X800pro and with ATI waiting on nVidia to release the specs of their new cards(6800 series[not new anymore of course]) before showing theirs.

Here is the review

I hope Ati gets hurt real bad these 2 quarters. Because of this outdated card, and because of the 12(only 12!!! not 16) pipelines on the X800pro and with ATI waiting on nVidia to release the specs of their new cards(6800 series[not new anymore of course]) before showing theirs, so that they could have the upper hand.

Go ATI...redeem yourself!

 

[bosox188]

Well, ATi released the X300 and X600. Nvidia released the PCX 5300, PCX 5750, and PCX 5900. The 5300 is a PCI-E 5200, 5750 PCI-E 5700, 5900 you can guess. And really those aren't true new gen cards, they're just PCI-E versions pretty much of the old AGP8x ones, although the technology may be newer, pretty much the same. But the thing is, ATi only has the X800 pro and XT right now, Nvidia has the 6800 Ultra, GT, Non-Ultra, and 6600 and 6600GT. I know there is an X800SE, but so far only Dell has it and you can only get it if it's in one of their systems and you buy the system. When's it coming out?

 

[blahblahblah]

Anyone who has been following this card should already know how it's review was going to turn out. When I first saw the specs I crossed my fingers and hoped that ATI would get kicked hard in the nuts for this. In all honesty, I would prefer an ATI card over nVidia's just about any day of the week. But this card is basically just a 9600XT with the PCIx bus. 12(only 12!!! not 16) pipelines on the X800pro and with ATI waiting on nVidia to release the specs of their new cards(6800 series[not new anymore of course]) before showing theirs.

Here is the review

I hope Ati gets hurt real bad these 2 quarters. Because of this outdated card, and because of the 12(only 12!!! not 16) pipelines on the X800pro and with ATI waiting on nVidia to release the specs of their new cards(6800 series[not new anymore of course]) before showing theirs, so that they could have the upper hand.

Go ATI...redeem yourself!

The X600XT is PCI Express only. :O And it is available. :O And Nvidia's offering, the 6600 will not be available till late September. :O And ATI is coming out with the replacement for the X600XT called the X700 in September as well. :O And the 6600's performance is roughly expected to be on the same level as a 9800 Pro. :O

As for the X800 Pro, please learn about graphics card performance. Pipelines do not reflect performance. It is like saying my FX 5200 is better because it has 256 MB RAM than the 128 MB version.

 

[Quixoticism]

Hmmm, looks like I forgot to get rid of that first mentioning of the X800...anyways.

Well, ATi released the X300 and X600. Nvidia released the PCX 5300, PCX 5750, and PCX 5900. The 5300 is a PCI-E 5200, 5750 PCI-E 5700, 5900 you can guess. And really those aren't true new gen cards, they're just PCI-E versions pretty much of the old AGP8x ones, although the technology may be newer, pretty much the same.

Then why isn't it labeled something like 9600PCI-XT? Those nVidia cards are just renditions of their predecessors. The X600 is a new series(supposedly) but it has the same performance as the 9600XT. Look at nVidia's new mid-range card the 6600GT, it performs on the same level as a 9800Pro? Why on earth would somebody go with Ati's mid range, when they can go nVidia's and get twice the card for the same price? And that brings up another thing. Why not buy a 9800Pro? They're $20 cheaper than the X600s anyways.

The X600XT is PCI Express only.

Indeed

And it is available.

So is the 9800pro

And Nvidia's offering, the 6600 will not be available till late September.

See previous remark

And ATI is coming out with the replacement for the X600XT called the X700 in September as well.

WOW!!! that soon? The X600 just came out didn't it? hmm, it must not be as good as some of the competing cards...

And the 6600's performance is roughly expected to be on the same level as a 9800 Pro. :O

Wow again, you just proved my whole point...why would anybody buy a "9600XT" when they could get a 6600 or a 9800pro for the same price?

As for the X800 Pro, please learn about graphics card performance. Pipelines do not reflect performance. It is like saying my FX 5200 is better because it has 256 MB RAM than the 128 MB version.

I know about GPU performance. I know pipelines do not effect performance. Just look at the 5900FX series and compare them to the 9800 series and you'll find that out...but the differences in their clock speeds were tremendous. The clock speeds on the X800 pro and XT are nearly identical, and yet the XT performs %20 faster then the Pro. Yeah yeah, you may say that the XT should perform faster becuase it costs a hundred more, but don't you think that a high end card should be just that, a high end card? Not saying that the X800 is a weak card or anything like that(heck I'd love to have one) but it's like they made it a mid-upper range card compared to the XT

 

[bosox188]

Yeah pipelines do not effect performance exactly, but it is good to have more. I think that the more there are the higher you can turn up the resolution without taking as big performance hits. Am I right?

 

[Quixoticism]

Yeah pipelines do not effect performance exactly, but it is good to have more. I think that the more there are the higher you can turn up the resolution without taking as big performance hits. Am I right?

Something like that. The more pipelines you have the more bandwidth your card has for rendering pixels, textures, and shaders.

 

[blahblahblah]

Then why isn't it labeled something like 9600PCI-XT? Those nVidia cards are just renditions of their predecessors. The X600 is a new series(supposedly) but it has the same performance as the 9600XT. Look at nVidia's new mid-range card the 6600GT, it performs on the same level as a 9800Pro? Why on earth would somebody go with Ati's mid range, when they can go nVidia's and get twice the card for the same price? And that brings up another thing. Why not buy a 9800Pro? They're $20 cheaper than the X600s anyways.

You do realize until that the X800 XT and the 6800 GT were unplanned additions to ATI's and Nvidia's family's right? ATI was expecting the current new generation to be set by the X800 Pro. Nvidia was expecting the X800 XT scenario so they released the 6800 Ultra. Since Nvidia was stunned by the X800 Pro they threw together the 6800 GT and ATI released the X800 XT. According to ATI's original plan, the X600 XT within its performance reasons for a mid-range card.

Concerning the X600 XT - this is a PCI Express card like I have mentioned before. The only chipset with PCI Express currently available is the LGA 775 from Intel. If you are stupid enough to buy a prescott, you are stupid enough to buy a X600 XT.

Indeed So is the 9800pro See previous remark WOW!!! that soon? The X600 just came out didn't it? hmm, it must not be as good as some of the competing cards... Wow again, you just proved my whole point...why would anybody buy a "9600XT" when they could get a 6600 or a 9800pro for the same price?

Maybe you forgot the part where the 6600 isn't available to late September at the earliest. Anyways, I've never said anybody should by the X600 XT. In fact, I think it is a horrible card.

I know about GPU performance. I know pipelines do not effect performance. Just look at the 5900FX series and compare them to the 9800 series and you'll find that out...but the differences in their clock speeds were tremendous. The clock speeds on the X800 pro and XT are nearly identical, and yet the XT performs %20 faster then the Pro. Yeah yeah, you may say that the XT should perform faster becuase it costs a hundred more, but don't you think that a high end card should be just that, a high end card? Not saying that the X800 is a weak card or anything like that(heck I'd love to have one) but it's like they made it a mid-upper range card compared to the XT

See above. The X800XT was an unplanned addition to the X800 family. You can't say that pipelines are everything when the X800 Pro can keep up with the 6800 GT. According to your logic the 6800 GT should trash the X800 Pro. Pipelines are only a small part of a chip's architecture.

Yeah pipelines do not effect performance exactly, but it is good to have more. I think that the more there are the higher you can turn up the resolution without taking as big performance hits. Am I right?

As a general rule of thumb, yes. The more pipelines you have, the better the performance should be at higher resolutions. That is why the X800 Pro can compete at 1280 resolutions, but not at 1600 resolutions. There are numerous other factors involved, but that is a current rule of thumb.

Pipelines are quickly being overrated for determing performance. The only thing to properly determine performance of a video card is by looking at benchmarks.

 

[Quixoticism]

You do realize until that the X800 XT and the 6800 GT were unplanned additions to ATI's and Nvidia's family's right? ATI was expecting the current new generation to be set by the X800 Pro. Nvidia was expecting the X800 XT scenario so they released the 6800 Ultra. Since Nvidia was stunned by the X800 Pro they threw together the 6800 GT and ATI released the X800 XT.

I did not know that. Damn them both for now we have $500 cards again. :angry: It's all because those rich snobs always have to have the top of the line. First with the 256MB cards, now with the XT/Ultras. If nobody would buy them, they would exist in the $500 price range.

Concerning the X600 XT - this is a PCI Express card like I have mentioned before. The only chipset with PCI Express currently available is the LGA 775 from Intel. If you are stupid enough to buy a prescott, you are stupid enough to buy a X600 XT.

Hahaha ROFL, that's a good one. Do you happen to know when the AMD based chipsets are going to have DDR2 and PCI-X?

You can't say that pipelines are everything when the X800 Pro can keep up with the 6800 GT. According to your logic the 6800 GT should trash the X800 Pro. Pipelines are only a small part of a chip's architecture.

I don't believe that I said pipelines were everything...if fact I totally refuted that I though that was the case by comparing the 5900Ultra to the 9800Pro. With the exception of PS2 shader support, they are pretty competetive with each other, even though the 5900 has only 4 pipelines compared to the 9800's 8.
I compared the X800Pro to the XT(not the 6800GT). While they both are very close in terms of their clock speeds, the XT performs %20 faster the the Pro because t has 4 more pipelines.

 

[Diablo2k]

Hmmm, looks like I forgot to get rid of that first mentioning of the X800...anyways.

Then why isn't it labeled something like 9600PCI-XT? Those nVidia cards are just renditions of their predecessors. The X600 is a new series(supposedly) but it has the same performance as the 9600XT. Look at nVidia's new mid-range card the 6600GT, it performs on the same level as a 9800Pro?

I even heard on a Tweaker site that the 6600 GT will be faster then a Radeon 9800 XT. :bounce:

 

[bosox188]

I even heard on a Tweaker site that the 6600 GT will be faster then a Radeon 9800 XT. :bounce:

No way. It can beat the 9800 pro because it's clocked a lot higher, but the 9800XT isn't as far behind in clock speeds plus the 6600GT is only 128-bit. I know I probably shouldn't compare clock speeds though on 2 very different GPU's, but I don't think the 6600GT can beat the 9800XT. That's what the 6800NU is for.

 

[Diablo2k]

No way. It can beat the 9800 pro because it's clocked a lot higher, but the 9800XT isn't as far behind in clock speeds plus the 6600GT is only 128-bit. I know I probably shouldn't compare clock speeds though on 2 very different GPU's, but I don't think the 6600GT can beat the 9800XT. That's what the 6800NU is for.

Guess your right, but anyways, if its faster then a radeon 9800 pro its still a good buy for $200.

 

[bosox188]

Yup, but it remains to be seen whether the high clock speeds can make up for the 128-bit memory. But for $200 good card.

 

[blahblahblah]

Hahaha ROFL, that's a good one. Do you happen to know when the AMD based chipsets are going to have DDR2 and PCI-X?

DDR 2 won't show its head on an AMD chipset for a long while (think upwards of a year). PCI-X is completely different than PCI Express. PCI Express is supposed to make its way on AMD chipsets in the next several months.

Anyways, you don't want DDR 2 right away. You will want to wait till DDR 2 starts reaching much higher speeds than what is currently available. This is because of the increased latency when comparing DDR to DDR 2.

 

[Quixoticism]

DDR 2 won't show its head on an AMD chipset for a long while (think upwards of a year). PCI-X is completely different than PCI Express. PCI Express is supposed to make its way on AMD chipsets in the next several months.

Anyways, you don't want DDR 2 right away. You will want to wait till DDR 2 starts reaching much higher speeds than what is currently available. This is because of the increased latency when comparing DDR to DDR 2.

My mistake. I meant PCI Express. The PCI-X is used by the Apple G5s right. I know that right now DDR2 is not a very good chioce because the timings are twice DDR's at best. But it has the capability of being much more. Now the 400MHz is not very enticing but when it gets up to 800MHz and 4GB dims then it will rock.