The HL Universe as an RTS?
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Dante
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http://www.valve-erc.com/srcsdk/
the only legal one that is.
Or you could always get the Torque RTS engine (http://www.garagegames.com), then you would have to get permissions from valve, or figure out some way to integrate the RTS into hl2's steam access.. blah blah..
pretty much, use the first link i gave you.
the only legal one that is.
Or you could always get the Torque RTS engine (http://www.garagegames.com), then you would have to get permissions from valve, or figure out some way to integrate the RTS into hl2's steam access.. blah blah..
pretty much, use the first link i gave you.
Angry Lawyer
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I'm doing the HL universe as an RTS, using Source, and another team I can't quite remember is having a pop at it.
Believe me, there are loads of difficulties in getting it working, though. I've been coding it since the SDK's release, and I've only just reached the ability for creatures to exist in multiplayer. That's the hardest part, though, as I managed to get the actual gameplay working in the original HL.
-Angry Lawyer
Believe me, there are loads of difficulties in getting it working, though. I've been coding it since the SDK's release, and I've only just reached the ability for creatures to exist in multiplayer. That's the hardest part, though, as I managed to get the actual gameplay working in the original HL.
-Angry Lawyer
Angry Lawyer
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I was planning for four seperate races - Combine, Resistance, Xen, and possibly Race X, once I find whether Valve own the rights to them, or Gearbox, and the legal stance on the concepts. Synths are a staple of the Combine forces - the Gunships, the Crab-Synth, the Mortar-Synth, the Striders, and a multitude of things from a mixture of my imagination and some of the old concept art.
Random fact: The Scanner MK2 is actually a form of Synth.
As of yet, I don't have a website, nor any released material, but trust me, when I have a stable, working version (which I'm quite close to, strangely), I'll whip up a website, supply some downloads, and let everyone know about it.
-Angry Lawyer
Random fact: The Scanner MK2 is actually a form of Synth.
As of yet, I don't have a website, nor any released material, but trust me, when I have a stable, working version (which I'm quite close to, strangely), I'll whip up a website, supply some downloads, and let everyone know about it.
-Angry Lawyer
Angry Lawyer
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Right now, no jobs are going, as I'm determined to prove to all these massive mod teams that one lone coder/mapper/conceptualist guy can outdo them.
But after my first public release (which will include the bare-bones controls, no flashy graphics, and a couple of units for three of the sides), I'll probably be open to people sending in maps and other customised content (I plan to have a system akin to SvenCoop's Model replacement thing, so people can make maps about anything. But expanded, so the stats can be set, and stuff).
Keep an eye out for news posts, because when I've got something stable and playable, everybody's going to know.
-Angry Lawyer
But after my first public release (which will include the bare-bones controls, no flashy graphics, and a couple of units for three of the sides), I'll probably be open to people sending in maps and other customised content (I plan to have a system akin to SvenCoop's Model replacement thing, so people can make maps about anything. But expanded, so the stats can be set, and stuff).
Keep an eye out for news posts, because when I've got something stable and playable, everybody's going to know.
-Angry Lawyer
sfc_hoot
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A Half-Life RTS? That would be great. 
If you were to include content from the first HL in your RTS, then you could have 7 races.
1. Resistance
2. Combine
3. Xen
4. Race-X
5. Black Mesa
6. Grunts
7. Black Ops
Looks like a lot of work. :/ Anyway, where would the Vortigaunts belong? To Xen or the Resistance?
If you were to include content from the first HL in your RTS, then you could have 7 races.1. Resistance
2. Combine
3. Xen
4. Race-X
5. Black Mesa
6. Grunts
7. Black Ops
Looks like a lot of work. :/ Anyway, where would the Vortigaunts belong? To Xen or the Resistance?
theGreenBunny
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Angry Lawyer said:
Do you intend to write an article about getting the basic rts structure working at one point? Maybe even opensource it? I'm planning on trying some stuff with an rts base at one point (nothing like an rts like yours though) and something to use as an example to learn from or just to get started would be very very nice.
Of course I can understand if you don't want to. I just find it a shame that every modder has to reinvent the wheel with the current, rather closed mindset of the hl2 modding community.
Angry Lawyer
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I'm sticking to four races, and four empty, map-definable slots for scenarios any wacky mappers want to make.
If I do put them into the multiplayer component, it is most likely that Black Mesa, the Grunts, and the Black Ops will all be buildable under the Resistance banner. It makes more sense, gameplay-wise, to have these units under the Resistance, considering there are so many Combine and Xen units.
If I get it working (very likely, because I managed to do it with HL1), I'll probably lay down some tutorials for the basic parts of my coding. Then again, if I continue down the path of ultimate moddability I plan to achieve with my mod (think of somewhere between Sven-Coop's model replacement and Warcraft's unit editor), people should be able to do their own campaigns.
And I've still not decided whether I should allow for players to use their spray-decals as banners in the game. Sorta like having a blank spot on certain models that will have the image applied to it. It'd have the advantage of giving clans a symbol they could rally around, but have the disadvatage that simply having sprays has: people can't help but put porn in them.
The idea of a Strider having an image of a woman's crotch burnt onto it's carapace kinda takes away some of the feel.
In coding the most basic RTS, there are only a few things to think about for the most basic of playability.
1. Camera style. Having players as Noclip cameras is the easiest to do, and allows them to zoom in on battles - a favoured feature of mine.
2. Team joining. Players - and creatures - need to be assigned to teams when they spawn.
3. Selecting units. At it's simplest, merely a pointer with a player's reference in it on the units.
4. Commanding movements. Using the unit selection thing, send a message to all entities in the level with that player in their memory to override their current schedule, and move to a target location.
5. Win conditions. Usually involving a power-core thing.
After that, you can think about tech trees, and everything. HL's AI will take care of combat.
Currently, in my programming, I've just completed implementing the AI into multiplayer (item # 0), and I'm progressing onto 1.
-Angry Lawyer
If I do put them into the multiplayer component, it is most likely that Black Mesa, the Grunts, and the Black Ops will all be buildable under the Resistance banner. It makes more sense, gameplay-wise, to have these units under the Resistance, considering there are so many Combine and Xen units.
If I get it working (very likely, because I managed to do it with HL1), I'll probably lay down some tutorials for the basic parts of my coding. Then again, if I continue down the path of ultimate moddability I plan to achieve with my mod (think of somewhere between Sven-Coop's model replacement and Warcraft's unit editor), people should be able to do their own campaigns.
And I've still not decided whether I should allow for players to use their spray-decals as banners in the game. Sorta like having a blank spot on certain models that will have the image applied to it. It'd have the advantage of giving clans a symbol they could rally around, but have the disadvatage that simply having sprays has: people can't help but put porn in them.
The idea of a Strider having an image of a woman's crotch burnt onto it's carapace kinda takes away some of the feel.
In coding the most basic RTS, there are only a few things to think about for the most basic of playability.
1. Camera style. Having players as Noclip cameras is the easiest to do, and allows them to zoom in on battles - a favoured feature of mine.
2. Team joining. Players - and creatures - need to be assigned to teams when they spawn.
3. Selecting units. At it's simplest, merely a pointer with a player's reference in it on the units.
4. Commanding movements. Using the unit selection thing, send a message to all entities in the level with that player in their memory to override their current schedule, and move to a target location.
5. Win conditions. Usually involving a power-core thing.
After that, you can think about tech trees, and everything. HL's AI will take care of combat.
Currently, in my programming, I've just completed implementing the AI into multiplayer (item # 0), and I'm progressing onto 1.
-Angry Lawyer
sfc_hoot
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Makes sence. Having all the humans as one - against the alien forces (eg. Combine, Xen, Race-X)Angry Lawyer said:
Now, how close to an RTS will this mod get? For example, do you plan to have buildings that create the units, people to gather resources (or machines perhaps), which will be used to purchase upgrades, create new units etc - or will you have more of a HL feel to it?
Angry Lawyer
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Because I don't want to have to scale the character models down, I've decided against having 'structures', as such. Of course, certain units will be able to set up things such as turrets, barricades, teleporters, and other whatnot, but having structures would make the maps have to be huge. You can build units, though, and they appear at the spawn points a mapper chooses - which allows for creative mapping, such as having a Citadel level where Combine forces appear behind a plasma barrier, and walk through it, every time they are bought.
I'm aiming for a sort of 'control point' system as the basis for resources - having units in a certain area will cause the flags surrounding it turn to their colour, and the team will gain resources. Of course, I'll also be adding entities that take input from anything to add resources, so mappers can add objectives that actually reward the players (for example: if Resistance destroy all func_breacable computer things in a Combine building, a money bonus will be awarded).
There'll still be a tech-tree, though, but it's basis will be - for lack of a better thing to compare against - something akin to the skill tree in Diablo 2 and other such RPGs. You have to research a certain thing to unlock others, but there's full decision on what gets researched first.
I'm aiming for a slightly faster paced RTS than the common ones - as you don't have 'resource gatherers', your combat units have to move into the territories - which takes away a territory from an opponent. Hopefully, this will force aggresive playing, rather than sitting back, and base building for too long.
Vortigaunts will be buildable on both Resistance and Xenian sides. The Xenians get a cheaper, but less durable one, with the original slave collars and stuff.
Oh, and I'll be keeping the Combine and Xen as seperate races, as I can't find defining proof that the Combine actually control them. Best not cause any plot inconsistencies...
One of the biggest hurdles in my modding - due to the fact I'm a one man team - is that of testing. I've got nobody to try it out with, when it gets to a playable state
I'm sure there'll be plenty of volunteers, though.
-Angry Lawyer
I'm aiming for a sort of 'control point' system as the basis for resources - having units in a certain area will cause the flags surrounding it turn to their colour, and the team will gain resources. Of course, I'll also be adding entities that take input from anything to add resources, so mappers can add objectives that actually reward the players (for example: if Resistance destroy all func_breacable computer things in a Combine building, a money bonus will be awarded).
There'll still be a tech-tree, though, but it's basis will be - for lack of a better thing to compare against - something akin to the skill tree in Diablo 2 and other such RPGs. You have to research a certain thing to unlock others, but there's full decision on what gets researched first.
I'm aiming for a slightly faster paced RTS than the common ones - as you don't have 'resource gatherers', your combat units have to move into the territories - which takes away a territory from an opponent. Hopefully, this will force aggresive playing, rather than sitting back, and base building for too long.
Vortigaunts will be buildable on both Resistance and Xenian sides. The Xenians get a cheaper, but less durable one, with the original slave collars and stuff.
Oh, and I'll be keeping the Combine and Xen as seperate races, as I can't find defining proof that the Combine actually control them. Best not cause any plot inconsistencies...
One of the biggest hurdles in my modding - due to the fact I'm a one man team - is that of testing. I've got nobody to try it out with, when it gets to a playable state
I'm sure there'll be plenty of volunteers, though.
-Angry Lawyer
Angry Lawyer
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Well, there will be a map-definable population limit, mainly for the reason that the server will slow to a crawl if someone spammed out too many of anything.
But build times should limit Striders. And their cost. And their weaknesses.
Sadly, they won't be in my first release, as they do their movement code a different way from your standard NPCs. Still, that gives me time to think.
-Angry Lawyer
But build times should limit Striders. And their cost. And their weaknesses.
Sadly, they won't be in my first release, as they do their movement code a different way from your standard NPCs. Still, that gives me time to think.
-Angry Lawyer
Angry Lawyer
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Yeah, a little like the Gunships.
I've not got around to doing the tech tree yet, but I've got some basic ideas.
-Angry Lawyer
I've not got around to doing the tech tree yet, but I've got some basic ideas.
-Angry Lawyer
Angry Lawyer
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I'm more focused on getting a working version of the mod than implementing music at the moment, but I appreciate the offer.
-Angry Lawyer
-Angry Lawyer
who said that YOU had to do the music? i'll make the music WHILE you figure how to do it. A good RTS game needs good music. good music naturally takes a bit more thinking and time to make it good to listen to over and over. if you want to see what ive done before, go download simmars. (beta) its good to listen to, in-game and in your walkman.
Angry Lawyer
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Why don't I want help? It's to prove something:
You don't need sixteen coders, thirty two concept artists, and two hundred mappers (all lead by one 'ideas man') to make a mod.
To be honest, I've been working on this mod since Half-Life 1, and I managed to get it working under that engine after a month. Admitted, it was unpolished, had no true interface, and the models used for the power-cores looked like crap, but it worked. And it was fun. And my younger brother kept beating me with a Gargantua.
Half-Life 2 is not very different, code-wise, to the original. I've only been doing dedicated coding for about two weeks, and I already have manyclose-combat NPCs working in a multiplayer environment (so far, all Headcrabs, Zombies, Antlions, and the Antlion Guard), a team system, and the ability to create NPCs at a point, dependant on your team. I believe I'll have a working 'internal' alpha (i.e. a game I can play with people who've shown the most interest on the boards, and those who I generally respect) within a few weeks. Hopefully, I'll have something playable by next Saturday - my Birthday.
Still, I would appreciate music made for it, although the best I can offer is a mention on the 'contributors' page, and a place on the testing team.
Most of the mods I've seen have fallen apart due to overly large teams, and a leader without any talents. And also, by working alone, I get things done based on my committment. No deadlines to follow. And nobody to have to depend on to get a crucial part working.
Don't worry, I'll be getting folks to make other parts of the mod eventually, but for the time being, it's an exercise of my personal skill.
Oh, and a random question. Due to their weak nature, Headcrabs are spawned in groups of three or so. Should selecting a headcrab automatically select all headcrabs beside it? (Considering a box-select is not currently on the agenda, due to the way the camera works). Or would people prefer if Headcrabs were able to be selected individually, for extra control? Both have advatages - but it's speed of selection, versus accuracy.
-Angry Lawyer
You don't need sixteen coders, thirty two concept artists, and two hundred mappers (all lead by one 'ideas man') to make a mod.
To be honest, I've been working on this mod since Half-Life 1, and I managed to get it working under that engine after a month. Admitted, it was unpolished, had no true interface, and the models used for the power-cores looked like crap, but it worked. And it was fun. And my younger brother kept beating me with a Gargantua.
Half-Life 2 is not very different, code-wise, to the original. I've only been doing dedicated coding for about two weeks, and I already have manyclose-combat NPCs working in a multiplayer environment (so far, all Headcrabs, Zombies, Antlions, and the Antlion Guard), a team system, and the ability to create NPCs at a point, dependant on your team. I believe I'll have a working 'internal' alpha (i.e. a game I can play with people who've shown the most interest on the boards, and those who I generally respect) within a few weeks. Hopefully, I'll have something playable by next Saturday - my Birthday.
Still, I would appreciate music made for it, although the best I can offer is a mention on the 'contributors' page, and a place on the testing team.
Most of the mods I've seen have fallen apart due to overly large teams, and a leader without any talents. And also, by working alone, I get things done based on my committment. No deadlines to follow. And nobody to have to depend on to get a crucial part working.
Don't worry, I'll be getting folks to make other parts of the mod eventually, but for the time being, it's an exercise of my personal skill.
Oh, and a random question. Due to their weak nature, Headcrabs are spawned in groups of three or so. Should selecting a headcrab automatically select all headcrabs beside it? (Considering a box-select is not currently on the agenda, due to the way the camera works). Or would people prefer if Headcrabs were able to be selected individually, for extra control? Both have advatages - but it's speed of selection, versus accuracy.
-Angry Lawyer
sfc_hoot
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A one-man modding team - refusing any help. Heh, hope you can manage.
Anyway, I think it would be better if the headcrabs are selected in groups. It makes things easier to manage. Clicking a cluster (correct collective term?) of headcrabs and having them move somewhere is far easier than selecting each individual headcrab, and commanding them separately. But this shouldn't be applied to other units (eg. Gargs, Combine, Vortigaunts). I've played a lot of RTSs and it can sometimes really annoy me when I want to command a single unit of a type and I can't, because of the group-select. For example, if I want it to explore an area.
Random questions:
1. Will there be a minimap?
2. Since you aren't having a box-select, how will players select multiple units?
3. Are you having HL1/OP4 monsters in your current version?
4. Will you have things like fog-of-war?
Anyway, I think it would be better if the headcrabs are selected in groups. It makes things easier to manage. Clicking a cluster (correct collective term?) of headcrabs and having them move somewhere is far easier than selecting each individual headcrab, and commanding them separately. But this shouldn't be applied to other units (eg. Gargs, Combine, Vortigaunts). I've played a lot of RTSs and it can sometimes really annoy me when I want to command a single unit of a type and I can't, because of the group-select. For example, if I want it to explore an area.
Random questions:
1. Will there be a minimap?
2. Since you aren't having a box-select, how will players select multiple units?
3. Are you having HL1/OP4 monsters in your current version?
4. Will you have things like fog-of-war?
Angry Lawyer
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1. Eventually. I've left space for it on the layout.
2. There'll be a 'select all units in view' and 'select all units around camera'. And of course, by just clicking all of the creatures.
3. I plan to have them soon enough. The one problem is that of Gearbox's copyright - I'm not sure where modders stand with their materials. I've sent a message to Valve, and Mike Dussalt has forwarded it to Scott Lynch, and he's supposed to get back to me as soon as he finds out.
4. Fog of War seems rather difficult to implement, but I'll be looking into its effect on the game.
Oh, and you'll be able to link yourself to Combine Scanners you build, and you'll get a picture-in-picture view of what the scanner sees at the bottom of the screen - perfect for early warnings.
Headcrab mass-select should be pretty easy to code. But for now, I've gotta update all my code, as I've just noticed that Valve snuck in an update to the source.
-Angry Lawyer
2. There'll be a 'select all units in view' and 'select all units around camera'. And of course, by just clicking all of the creatures.
3. I plan to have them soon enough. The one problem is that of Gearbox's copyright - I'm not sure where modders stand with their materials. I've sent a message to Valve, and Mike Dussalt has forwarded it to Scott Lynch, and he's supposed to get back to me as soon as he finds out.
4. Fog of War seems rather difficult to implement, but I'll be looking into its effect on the game.
Oh, and you'll be able to link yourself to Combine Scanners you build, and you'll get a picture-in-picture view of what the scanner sees at the bottom of the screen - perfect for early warnings.
Headcrab mass-select should be pretty easy to code. But for now, I've gotta update all my code, as I've just noticed that Valve snuck in an update to the source.
-Angry Lawyer
Angry Lawyer
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Full 3d floating camera, to start with. Like floating around in Observer Mode.
As many people find this camera angle irritating, I'll be endeavouring to make an optional, traditional locked camera.
-Angry Lawyer
As many people find this camera angle irritating, I'll be endeavouring to make an optional, traditional locked camera.
-Angry Lawyer
sfc_hoot
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I'd prefer it to be a traditional 3D-RTS camera, so a top view of the battlefield, with the abilities to zoom and rotate. Maybe some kind of pitch as well. I wouldn't really like the idea of a noclip-like camera. It wouldn't feel like an RTS. :/
Have you played Age of Mythology or Impossible Creatures? Those two RTSs have awsome cameras in my oppinion.
Have you played Age of Mythology or Impossible Creatures? Those two RTSs have awsome cameras in my oppinion.
Angry Lawyer
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Yeah, they've got a locked camera. But I've still got to work out how to get the camera like that. It seems difficult. Admitted, I prefer this camera style, but some things are currently taking priority.
-Angry Lawyer
-Angry Lawyer
sfc_hoot
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You don't happen to have any screenshots you could share with us, do you? I'm sure many of us would love to see what a HL RTS would look like.
On the other hand I understand if you don't wish to give us any screenshots. Best to let the community see when you feel ready about it.
I'm sure many of us would love to see what a HL RTS would look like. On the other hand I understand if you don't wish to give us any screenshots. Best to let the community see when you feel ready about it.
Angry Lawyer
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Right now, it looks no different from the original Half-Life - I'm not far enough into the development to make it look any good. Doesn't help that a computer error popped the source code. Thankfully, I'd remembered most of what I'd done, and I'm almost back to where I was.
I'll post pictures when I have something to show.
-Angry Lawyer
I'll post pictures when I have something to show.
-Angry Lawyer
