The Immigration Debate

[No Limit]

I want to continue this thread from the gun debate thread as that thread went off topic to this subject. I will respond to repvi when I responded to his claim that what the mexicans are doing is so unfair to people like him that want to come here legally. If he thinks its so unfair I already told him he can fly down to warez, sneak in here, and I'll hook him up with a low paying job in construction or landscaping.

It's unfair on everyone except the rich. It's unfair on the working classes who are having their wages and quality of life slashed or losing their sources of income because the illegals will undercut them massively.

I already disputed this, why do you keep repeating this?

They are doing jobs here nobody wants. People in this country would much rather live a shitty life on welfare than live a shitty life cleaning toilets for $5.50 /hr before taxes, which equals less than $4.50 after federal tax, state tax, and social security.

It's unfair on the taxpayer because they have access to the country's social services without paying any money into them, thus putting them under enormous strain.

Our corporations do the same thing.

If we can afford a war that costs 700 million dollars a day we can afford a few million for these illegals, at least there we get something in exchange and that is a workforce that is willing to do what we all dont want to do. And saying they don't give back anything is absolutely false, everything they buy has a sales tax attached to it, not to mention all the jobs they are creating by buying our shit.

It's unfair on the American public because American culture is being undermined and Spanish is becoming the de-facto second language through a completely undemocratic process, and ghettoisation is likely to follow if it hasn't already.

Yes, all mexicans are gangsters. :stare:

Again, you've never been in this country. Every illegal that comes over here is a hard worker and probably a lot more moral than all these stuck up white kids that were born in this country. There is a problem with crime on the second generation of these immigrants, but thats because when they come here people like you think they should live in absolute hell. So they have to constantly work instead of rasing their children, and in return some of their children do end up as total **** tards. For as many of those stories there are just as many that came here with nothing and now make more money then I ever could, and they do it legally while putting that money back into our economy.

Also because of the vast amounts of extra criminal activity that comes across the border.

If you are talking about the drug trade then sure, that happens. They come here, sell drugs, and go back to mexico to repeat the same thing. I don't see what you want to do to change that, pour more money into the war on drugs?

It's unjust to people like me who want to get into the country legally and have a lot to offer.

We don't want you here. We have enough problems getting good jobs here because they are all being shipped to India. Whatever you have to offer there a 10 americans that can offer the same thing yet they can't find a job or they are extremely underpaid.

You like being told you don't belong here by some prick that is lucky enough to be here (pure luck on my part)? Feels good doesn't it? I guess I will use your logic when I say deal with it. Life isn't fair, get used to it.

As I already pointed out to you, they have a lot more to offer to this country than you do. And as I already pointed out to you how many illegals we get pouring into this country has absolutely no effect on how many legal visas we give out, we have given out virtually the same number for a very long time. Remember, you are talking to somebody that was lucky enough to come here on a legal perminent resident visa. That was by far the luckiest thing that has ever happened to me and my family, Poland, especially the part I lived in, was a total shit hole when we left there in 94 (right after communism) and you have absolutely no idea how greatful I am for being here. This is why I realize what a dream it can be for people living in such shitty situations to be able to come over here.

It's unfair on the Mexicans who get exploited and ****ed over.

Absolutely. But they still have a better life than they did in their country, otherwise they wouldn't be coming here by those numbers. So nice try, but I really have a hard time believing you are looking out for their interests.

The ones who really benefit from this situation are big corporations like Walmart. Effectively, it's ensuring that the gap between rich and poor gets ever wider.

Walmart pays shitty wages that no american deserves. But they do not hire illegals, if they did they could not hide them for being such a big corporation. I know there are some isolated incidents of them doing this but when it happens they get caught. Take it from me, I have 3 super walmarts within 5 miles of my house, most of the people that work there are elderly and every single on of them speaks perfect english. I'm positive they aren't here illegally. The only businesses that benefit from illegals are small businesses that can't find a work force else where. It really doesn't make much sense to save a couple bucks hiring illegals when you could hire people here that are legally, the problem again is nobody that is here legally wants to do those jobs.

As a libertarian capitalist, I don't support this from any perspective whatsoever, so as a socialist how can you possibly condone it?

I'm a little confused, condone what? And who said I was a socialist?

 

[HunterSeeker]

It would possibly be better for america to be more generous on who gets legal workpermit, citizenship or whatever. This means that the ex-illegal immigrants would have to pay taxes of cource but they would also be covered under minimum wage laws. This would raise living standards among them and I am sure that would lead to less crime, low living standards are usually the reason behind robberies and the like.