The Shape of Things to Come - one for the Brits

[el Chi]

Thank Christ for David Blunkett. No, honestly :hmph:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4029507.stm
Maybe soon we can have our very own PATRIOT act, just like our Yankee cousins. <Sighs>

 

[Tr0n]

Wow...I wonder how many other countries are gonna do the same. :|

 

[K e r b e r o s]

I swear to God, either Canada or Britains next on Osama's Def Poetry list.

 

[Absinthe]

Let's fight the War on Terror by terrorizing our own people!

 

[el Chi]

Let's fight the War on Terror by terrorizing our own people!

Which is part of what the War on Terror is about... OBEY.

 

[hasan]

I wonder if we went back in time, and tried to tell pro-hitler germans that hitler was gonna turn germany to a dictatorship .. what would they answer? what would thier reply look like?

 

[Dedalus]

it's funny. they're all waffle until it comes to stuff like terrorism, then all of a sudden it's solid action followed by results.

if they showed half the vigour for anti-terrorism on education, healthcare and social/financial equality we'd all be living in a better place.

our kids and grandkids are gonna hate us for not standing up and stopping things like this coming into effect. but then i think, it's better to just let it happen, as everything is cyclical, and eventually their plans will blow up in their face and we'll start over with a brand new government with good wholesome ideals and good results.


:|

 

[HateCrime]

Let's fight the War on Terror by terrorizing our own people!

No offense, Absinthe, but what do you folks in Switzerland know about terror? Your country has NEVER bothered to take a stand on anything - well, except neutrality. Or well, taking the Jews $$$ during WWII. Or given Nazi war criminals sanctuary. :thumbs:

 

[gh0st]

british patriot act? oh you must mean more efficient prosecution of criminals and updated computer crime technology? sounds good.

 

[oldagerocker]

Someone should lock Mr Blunkett up without proper trial before Jury for 'terrorising politics as we know it'....
I hope he gets the big shuve... out of cabinet.

but then i think, it's better to just let it happen, as everything is cyclical, and eventually their plans will blow up in their face and we'll start over with a brand new government with good wholesome ideals and good results.

Like the U.S.S.R? or Nazi Germany? or... America :O?

 

[el Chi]

british patriot act? oh you must mean more efficient prosecution of criminals and updated computer crime technology? sounds good.

Calling it the USA PATRIOT Act ("Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism") was a stroke of genius, it really was. Who can argue with something that pertains to be "Patriot"-ic without sounding like the terrorist-hugging un-American Commie they truly are?
Thus, they can get away with a lot more than they might be able to usually. Dastardly, it really is.

I object to Blunkett subscribing our country to the climate of fear and the Patriot act is one such tool.

 

[gh0st]

chi... you probably havent read the provisions of the patriot act, but answer honestly. do you really know what the patriot act does, or are you just assuming its bad because of what you hear from leftist fanatics?

 

[el Chi]

chi... you probably havent read the provisions of the patriot act, but answer honestly. do you really know what the patriot act does, or are you just assuming its bad because of what you hear from leftist fanatics?

A little bit of column A, a little bit of column B.
Honestly though, I have read some of it and there were some things that genuinely unsettled me. Some based around giving the authorities the right to search your home without giving you notice of any kind, before or after. They are also allowed to conduct it whilst you are out to the effect that you should never have known you were searched or that you were under suspicion.
I seem to recall a few other similar allowances, often based around a heavy motif of "if you've got nothing to hide, then you shouldn't have a problem with it" This is a statement I loathe, as it tramples on one's freedoms.
Any others escape me as it is late, I am tired and I ought to be working...
I know that sounds like a suspect excuse, but it's actuall true.

Please fill me in on the positive points of it. I would be interested to hear what the Rightist fanatics have to say.

 

[gh0st]

more like a lot of column B. for one...

Some based around giving the authorities the right to search your home without giving you notice of any kind, before or after. They are also allowed to conduct it whilst you are out to the effect that you should never have known you were searched or that you were under suspicion.

oh this would be very frightening indeed. except that its been done this way for years. if you have a warrant you arent required to notify the person whom the warrant is issued for. kind of makes the warrant pointless in the first place if the person has pario knowledge of law enforcement coming. the patriot act simply makes acquisition of warrants easier (YOU STILL MUST HAVE A JUDGE'S APPROVAL, JUST LIKE BEFORE), by streamlining the process and standardizing the act.

the patriot act isnt new legislation. its laws we've always had and enforced, made more efficient and viable for the 21st century. this includes upgrades to necessary computer crime technology, and streamlining many legal issues.

one term loosely thrown around is the "roving wiretap" which really just allows the FBI or other law enforcement to follow a given wire, since many terrorists communicate using cell-phones, not a landline. it makes getting these easier as well, but probable cause and a judges approval are still necessary for this kind of privacy invasions.

student visas (a common method of terrorist infiltration) are also more closely monitered, and why shouldnt they be? theres a bunch more.. ive read the entire 900 odd page document, it really isnt as bad as people think. its actually a very necessary security tool. britain would benefit from it. edit: the ads

if you want to see the benefits of the patriot act (in terms of child porn, and other nasties - most of it is not terror related), check out this house of representatives report.
http://www.house.gov/judiciary/PATRIOTReportfromtheField0704.pdf

 

[Absinthe]

No offense, Absinthe, but what do you folks in Switzerland know about terror? Your country has NEVER bothered to take a stand on anything - well, except neutrality. Or well, taking the Jews $$$ during WWII. Or given Nazi war criminals sanctuary. :thumbs:

1) I'm not Swiss.

2) Even if I was Swiss, that would not necessarily mean I condone my governments previous actions or current stances.

 

[Kangy]

This never happened when the IRA were being bitches about blowing up stuff, and imho, they were a bigger threat to this country than Al Quieda have posed so far. This really is just a big bunch of silliness.

 

[el Chi]

That's crossed my mind so many times. We endured the better part of 40 years of terrorism from the IRA and people didn't create as much fear as they are now.

 

[Kangy]

That's crossed my mind so many times. We endured the better part of 40 years of terrorism from the IRA and people didn't create as much fear as they are now.

Funny thing is, a lot of Americans so fearful of terrorism weren't against the IRA at all.

 

[el Chi]

Funny thing is, a lot of Americans so fearful of terrorism weren't against the IRA at all.

There was a lot of funding to that "legitimate" fellow Gerry Adams and Sinn Fein, which is of course in no way related to the IRA even one little bit.

 

[Edcrab]

"It's for the freedom fighters back home... you'll be doing your part."

Don't get me started on the fantastic way that some businessmen go about funding terrorism.

Phone tapping, oddly, doesn't make me recoil in horror- as long as they start allowing it for drugs charges and general gangland offences. Too often evidence has been "compromised" because it was gained in an "illegal, unethical manner"... not quite alongside torture, of course.

The problem? Pass one law like this and hundreds more could follow. 'Course, we feared the same thing would happen back when we were appeasing Hitler. And look what happened the- oh, shit. Bad example.

 

[The Dark Elf]

Bah saw the thread title and thought this was gonna be about one of my favorite stories. Meh