Toothache leads to boys death

[CptStern]

A simple toothache can be fatal.

That is the sobering message a 12-year-old Maryland boy left when, after his dental problems went untreated, he succumbed to a severe brain infection.

Deamonte Driver's life could have been spared if his infected tooth was simply removed ? a procedure costing just $80.

However, the Driver family faced obstacles with Medicaid, poverty, and access to resources, resulting in an easily preventable health problem turning deadly.

In the end, Driver endured two surgeries and weeks of hospital care totaling about $250,000 in medical bills. Sadly, it was too late to save the boy, and he passed away on Feb. 25.

But Deamonte Driver has become much more than just a tragic death. His story underscores the growing need in this wealthy nation to provide adequate dental care to our nation's children.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2925584&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

surely the parents should bear some reponsibilty here but this issue highlights the huge problem of healthcare in the US ..
the US can spend 5 billion dollars a month ($100000 per minute) on repeatedly blowing the shit out of iraq yet 55,000,000 americans are without adequate health insurance? the nation's priorities are out of whack it seems

children should have free healthcare without question

 

[Solaris]

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=2925584&page=1&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

surely the parents should bear some reponsibilty here but this issue highlights the huge problem of healthcare in the US ..
the US can spend 5 billion dollars a month ($100000 per minute) on repeatedly blowing the shit out of iraq yet 55,000,000 americans are without adequate health insurance? the nation's priorities are out of whack it seems

children should have free healthcare without question

But stern this way it's [cue whiney voice] 'More efficient'[/end whiney voice]

 

[CyberPitz]

I agree, that healthcare is jacked up to hell...I should know, I've been needing dental work and some normal medical stuff *random pains in my back and chest, ecxema, etc...* and I just can't plum afford to go that far into debt because of it.....

 

[CptStern]

if you're having chest pains, expense or not you should see a doctor. Oh and there's a prescription cream that takes care of escema pretty quickly and it's only about $11 for a small jar ..enough for a few months. I'll have to ask my wife but I'm pretty sure the active ingredient is also sold over the counter ..so no need for doctor visit

 

[Tyguy]

California spends over 10.5 Billion dollars annually for basic human services for illegal immigrants......1.4 billion is spent incarcerating Crimaliens....dont want to turn this into an immigrant debate, but I think that says alot for the United States and their priorities

but we cant give a kid a dental visit

 

[Solaris]

California spends over 10.5 Billion dollars annually for support services for illegal immigrants......

but we cant give a kid a dental visit

It's just as disgraceful to have 'illegal immigrants' go without health care. You don't think some of those illegal immigrants are also children? Don't blame your fellow workers, blame the system.

 

[CptStern]

California spends over 10.5 Billion dollars annually for support services for illegal immigrants......

but we cant give a kid a dental visit

the alternative would be to let them starve to death while here or just put a bullet in the back of their heads (far more humane doncha think?)

oh and majority of poor are ethnic minorities, and there's no larger group of ethnic minorities than latinos in the US ..the same people you say money is being wasted on ..your compassion obviously only extends to those who have papers proving they belong in america

 

[Flyingdebris]

so wait, would the pocedure have cost 80 bucks in and of itself, or 80 bucks after insurance coverage?

Because if the family wasn't willing to pay up a mere 80 bucks to pull that kid's tooth, then that seems to be more negligence or ignorance at play than anything else.

 

[Tyguy]

I never said money was being wasted on Latinos or LEGAL immigrants. Illegal criminals are draining a ridiculous amount of money which could be going towards Education, Health care, and many other needs for LEGITIMATE Americans.

Like I said, I didnt want to get into a debate, Im just annoyed that my country cant offer its citizens health care, yet we feel the need to pay for criminals to live here.

 

[kirovman]

Because if the family wasn't willing to pay up a mere 80 bucks to pull that kid's tooth, then that seems to be more negligence or ignorance at play than anything else.

I think you may have missed this part:

"However, the Driver family faced obstacles with Medicaid, poverty, and access to resources"

 

[Tyguy]

I think you may have missed this part:

"However, the Driver family faced obstacles with Medicaid, poverty, and access to resources"

Then you mow alot of lawns....if your kid needs medical care, you find a way

Like in John Q

 

[CptStern]

I never said money was being wasted on Latinos or LEGAL immigrants. Illegal criminals are draining a ridiculous amount of money which could be going towards Education, Health care, and many other needs for LEGITIMATE Americans.

yet you're fine with illegal wars in foreign lands, corporate handouts etc etc etc? ..when did it become a situation where supporting your side is more important than people's well being?

Like I said, I didnt want to get into a debate, Im just annoyed that my country cant offer its citizens health care, yet we feel the need to pay for criminals to live here.

it can afford to give every single citizen full healthcare hundreds of times over ...over 5 billion a month alone on a war you started

Then you mow alot of lawns....if your kid needs medical care, you find a way

Like in John Q

it's not nowhere near that easy ..a simple hospital visit can cost $5000 ..can you pay for that? can your family pay? what about if it was $10,000? what if it was $250,000?

had my son been born in the US and I had no health insurance I would owe the hospital over $300,000 ..and that's just 2 1/2 months in non intensive care ..my father who spent the same amount of time in intensive care would be charged almost 1,000,000 for his stay ....can you afford that?

 

[kirovman]

Also, not being dental experts its possible they were ill-advised on what to do, and unaware of the risks.

 

[Tyguy]

yet you're fine with illegal wars in foreign lands, corporate handouts etc etc etc? ..when did it become a situation where supporting your side is more important than people's well being?

No, im not fine with that....Bush should be impeached

it can afford to give every single citizen full healthcare hundreds of times over ...over 5 billion a month alone on a war you started

I didnt start the war, and I dont think we should be there, not to mention the thousands of lives that were lost, I could care less about money

$80 might be too much to pay for a family living below the poverty line as this family seems to be doing ..it's easy to sit there with absolutely zero responsibilities to your name and sit in judgement ..you'd be surprised how many middle class families are a paycheck away from being homeless

Agreed

 

[Solaris]

I didnt start the war, and I dont think we should be there, not to mention the thousands of lives that were lost, I could care less about money

You were just ranting about all that money spent on Immigrants.

 

[Absinthe]

It's just as disgraceful to have 'illegal immigrants' go without health care. You don't think some of those illegal immigrants are also children? Don't blame your fellow workers, blame the system.

Then the parents should apply for citizenship.

The United States isn't a charity organization. When you take something, you give something back (or at least that's how it's supposed to work). Illegal immigrants fly under the radar for the most part, and it's relatively easy for them to get access to benefits while giving little input back into the system. That's a drain on the country.

People like to paint this as an issue of xenophobia, but it's not. I personally have no problem with ethnic minorities or immigrants. What I care about is the legality of their status in the US and the effects it has.

 

[Tyguy]

You were just ranting about all that money spent on Immigrants.

Yes I was, but you quoted me talking about the war.....as far as Iraq goes, Lives > Money

The United States isn't a charity organization. When you take something, you give something back (or at least that's how it's supposed to work). Illegal immigrants fly under the radar for the most part, and it's relatively easy for them to get access to benefits while giving little input back into the system. That's a drain on the country.

Good Point. It is not the United States' responsibility to finance illegal immigrants, especially when we cant even afford health care for our own citizens.

 

[jondy]

The United States isn't a charity organization. When you take something, you give something back (or at least that's how it's supposed to work). Illegal immigrants fly under the radar for the most part, and it's relatively easy for them to get access to benefits while giving little input back into the system. That's a drain on the country.

Illegal immigrants prop up your economy. If they're pushing legitimate Americans out of their jobs, it's because corporations aren't being forced to pay equal wages. But immigration isn't why your healthcare system is the donkey of the developed world, and whoever cited it as a reason not to implement univ. healthcare can't see the wood for the trees.

Good Point. It is not the United States' responsibility to finance illegal immigrants, especially when we cant even afford health care for our own citizens.

But that's the point - you should be able to finance it, and you can blame Gingrich and his cronies for killing what could have been the solution back in the early nineties. American universal healthcare is possible, but with the pharmaceutical lobbies standing in the way of legislation the only way you're going to change things is when stuff gets so bad the majority of the Caucasian middle class start bitching.

 

[CptStern]

I'd like for someone to explain just exactly how americans are paying for illegal immigrants healthcare ..methinks you've been watching too much fox"news"

Although illegal immigrants are ineligible for welfare, food stamps and other public service programs, they can obtain some of them by using false identification papers. It's a big business and not difficult to create an identity for this purpose.

Other services, such as walk-in clinics, do not ask for identification at all, so patrons can simply make-up a name and social security number to get treated. Furthermore, hospitals, even if they know someone is an illegal alien, will not turn them away, and will not report them. All human beings must be treated for serious conditions.

Health care providers can charge the government for emergency care provided to illegal aliens beginning Tuesday.

The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued final guidance Monday that sets up a system for reimbursement. Lawmakers set aside $1 billion over four years for the program, created by Medicare legislation passed in 2003.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/10/heallth.illegal.ap/
http://immigration.about.com/od/ussocialeconomicissues/i/WelfareHealthC.htm

that's less than what it costs for a week in iraq ...over a 4 year period


funny how people complain about spending money on treating people in life or death situations but couldnt give a rats ass about flushing billions of dollars a month on a mess you created and have no hope of fixing ..a sure sign of the decline of western civilization: ideology before human lives

 

[Absinthe]

Illegal immigrants prop up your economy. If they're pushing legitimate Americans out of their jobs, it's because corporations aren't being forced to pay equal wages.

I know, and I agree. The corporations in this country arguably are far more responsible for the issue because of their practices.

But immigration isn't why your healthcare system is the donkey of the developed world, and whoever cited it as a reason not to implement univ. healthcare can't see the wood for the trees.

I never claimed illegal immigration was the reason our healthcare sucked. :|

And Stern, the Iraq thing again... I really shouldn't respond since you know full well that I do give a shit about the Iraq and I am entirely opposed to it. I hope you weren't referring to me with that post.

 

[CptStern]

I was specifically talking to americans in general


btw did you know enrollment in the KKK has skyrocked in the last few years? ..the number one reason: illegal immigration

 

[Absinthe]

I was specifically talking to americans in general


btw did you know enrollment in the KKK has skyrocked in the last few years? ..the number one reason: illegal immigration

Aye... and therein lies the major problem with must public discourse over illegal immigration.

At the heart of it all, I think there is a valid concern. But it's been mutilated into retardation thanks to racists, xenophobes, and idiots. Every time you turn on the TV there's some talking head screaming about the "purity of the nation" when that's never been the problem, you dolts.

 

[CptStern]

whatever valid concern there may have been it is now meaningless; nationalism/xenophobia has firmly taken root to become a permant fixture on the american psyche ...In many ways the US is reverting to a 50's era style fascism and for the most part joe sixpack is almost welcoming it

 

[Tyguy]

But immigration isn't why your healthcare system is the donkey of the developed world, and whoever cited it as a reason not to implement univ. healthcare can't see the wood for the trees.

I didn't say there was a direct correlation between the two, I simply showed how out of whack my country's priorities are.

 

[jondy]

I never claimed illegal immigration was the reason our healthcare sucked. :|

I didn't say there was a direct correlation between the two, I simply showed how out of whack my country's priorities are.

I didn't name names or blame anyone - my point was, we shouldn't be talking about immigration, it's guaranteed to send the debate off the rails. This is about healthcare

 

[DaMaN]

It really boggles the mind how $100,000 a minute can be spent on all manners of killing people, but only pennies are spent trying to keep people alive.

It's seriously ****ed up.

 

[Flyingdebris]

Its easy to not have to worry about illegal immigration if you are up in canada or any state not up against mexico, but down here in South california and the other states along the mexican border, it sucks.

Namely because the illegals show up either expecting handouts or politicians end up rewarding illegals with handouts. And at least as far as LA is concerned, the second you say that maybe illegal immigrants shouldn't be getting benefits that actual citizens aren't getting, BAM, you've got a mexican protest on your front lawn and are labeled a racist.

Now before i get labeled a racist, I'm Hispanic, so lawl 2 u. My Family came to the Florida from Cuba legally and hell, our illegals have to cross 90 miles of ocean so that kind of limits things. Besides Cubans do not generally ask for handouts and for the most part are more interested in embracing american culture than our mexican cousins.

Meanwhie over in California, the damn place is turning into a welfare state where the kids of mexican families are being brought up without any real desire to become american and the influx of illegal immigration is only exacerbating it.

For me, its not an issue of race, but of behavior. If you are gonna show up in my country, you pull your weight, and appreciate that you live here now. You don't show up in someone's house, cordon off an area, declare its yours now, and ask for an allowance.

I'm not advocating massive deportations or anything, but some social programs that promote cultural integration and hardwork would be nice.

 

[CptStern]

Its easy to not have to worry about illegal immigration if you are up in canada or any state not up against mexico

yes because the US is the only place on earth that has to deal with illegal immigration ...we should build a fence

Namely because the illegals show up either expecting handouts or politicians end up rewarding illegals with handouts.

how is that possible? are you saying that Pedro having just snuck into the country walks to his state legislators office and demands food stamps or a shiny new american built car? And these politicians do they open their doors christmas morning to hand out turkeys to suspicious looking latinos? give me a break

And at least as far as LA is concerned, the second you say that maybe illegal immigrants shouldn't be getting benefits that actual citizens aren't getting, BAM, you've got a mexican protest on your front lawn and are labeled a racist.

name one government benefit an illegal immigrant is entitled to ..just one

Now before i get labeled a racist, I'm Hispanic, so lawl 2 u. My Family came to the Florida from Cuba legally and hell, our illegals have to cross 90 miles of ocean so that kind of limits things.

yet should cubans survive the treacherous trip they should be turned back even if it means certain death? or is it just mexicans who are the problem?

Besides Cubans do not generally ask for handouts and for the most part are more interested in embracing american culture than our mexican cousins.

heh you answered my last question: just the mexicans

"I dont mean to sound racist but ..."

Meanwhie over in California, the damn place is turning into a welfare state where the kids of mexican families are being brought up without any real desire to become american and the influx of illegal immigration is only exacerbating it.

so in other words it doesnt matter if they're legal or not, the problem isnt illegal immigration it's mexicans in general

For me, its not an issue of race, but of behavior.

yet you only seem to mention mexicans ..illegal cubans are ok, just not mexicans

If you are gonna show up in my country, you pull your weight, and appreciate that you live here now.

in your country? you ****ing took it from 2 different cultures ..your country my ass. Not to mention you're first fgeneration immigrant ..I'm sure it could be argued you dont have as much a right to stay in the US as someone who can trace their lineage back to the freakin mayflower

You don't show up in someone's house, cordon off an area, declare its yours now, and ask for an allowance.

where who what the hell are you talking about? is there a "Little immigration town" somewhere in butt**** texas that I'm unaware of?

I'm not advocating massive deportations or anything, but some social programs that promote cultural integration and hardwork would be nice.

so again it's not the illegals you're talking about but rather the mexicans

 

[DeusExMachina]

No free health care! We ain't no socialists.

 

[CptStern]

we'll see what you have to say when you have to pay premiums out of your own pocket

pharmacist: "that'll be $275 for the pills sir"

DeusExMachina:"yay, thank god we're not socialists"

 

[Candy art]

That's because most Mexicans refuse to assimilate.
Im of russian decent,I don't even speak russian anymore neither does my Father.We are americans,if you come here,then must accept our culture.

 

[Flyingdebris]

damit stern, you can't just make a post that argues your point without breaking up the the whole thing into quotes? You know that only leads to quote wars and that you'll always win simply by virtue of attrition mister posts all damn day.

But i'll bite

1.The US is not the only place with an illegal immigration problem, but someone in kansas doesn't have to deal with its immediate results, and Canada isn't being flooded by rednecks is it? I hear Europe is having a big problem with illegal immigration over there.

2 & 3 Are you kidding me? CA politicians practically bend over backwards to keep illegals happy for fear of displeasing latino voting groups. As for the benifits they get? A lot of it comes down to reaping the benefits of social programs ment for legal residents without paying taxes themselves like welfare.

4. I mean that Cubans have not become a burden on Florida and we have a harder time getting here.

5. Mexican ain't a race. Are you a racist for not liking americans?

6.7.8. Yeah i primarily mentioned mexicans because its not an influx of south africans or russians coming up from mexico, now is it? And yeah, the primary problem with illegal mexicans is because there's so damn many. If all of a sudden shitloads of people in the northern US decided to just cross into canada like they owned the place, wouldn't you be complaining about the incoming Americans?

9. Hell yes my country. I was born here, i grew up here, and i'll probably die here. I'm just as American as anyone else here.

10.11. Yes, there are. One of the problems quickly becoming apparent is that through a combination of stubborness on part of the immigrants and molly coddling on part of the government you end up with people recreating their own mini country which isn't so much a problem in and of itself, because its natural that it'll happen. But what happens is that all too often you end up with a mentality of seperation and that screws you over in the long run. Go ask france.

 

[DeusExMachina]

we'll see what you have to say when you have to pay premiums out of your own pocket

pharmacist: "that'll be $275 for the pills sir"

DeusExMachina:"yay, thank god we're not socialists"

Damn right I will.

 

[theotherguy]

in history class the other day we started arguing over socialized healthcare. I was the only one who advocated it :hmph:

 

[CyberPitz]

in history class the other day we started arguing over socialized healthcare. I was the only one who advocated it :hmph:

Maybe because everybody else is just like me and can't figure out the difference....

 

[theotherguy]

Maybe because everybody else is just like me and can't figure out the difference....

Socialized Healthcare (Canada, UK, Germany)-All healthcare is either provided or heavily regulated by the government, people pay a higher tax for it but get the benifits of never having to worry about going into debt for healthcare. Healthcare tends to be slower for non-emergencies and overall the doctors get paid less and work fewer hours.

U.S Healthcare(USA)-Insurance organizations or HMOs pay for people's medical bills that subscribe to them. This is technically efficient because market compeition supposedly drives up quality, but many millions of people are left out of healthcare and countless others are driven bankrupt by procedures their insurance will not pay for. Healthcare is directley related to the amount of money you or your HMO is willing to spend, and doctors tend to make large salaries but work long hours.

The fact is, healthcare, like education is a public good and has many spillover benifits. That is, buisnesses are not compensated for the opportunity revenue the person gains from being healthy: healthy people make more money for the economy than sick people, but the healthcare organizations are not reimbursed. This distorts the market for healthcare and causes healthcare organizations to underallocate healthcare to only those able to afford inflated prices, driving poorer people out of the market. Public goods simply must be regulated by the government, and in the case of healthcare and education really should be socialized outright.

 

[CyberPitz]

Well, I definitely see the ups and downs of both of them. I'm not sure which one I'd rather pick...

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

You got to love it when this was just a thread about a boy dies from a toothache, then it turns into a bloody 'evil US' and liberal elitist rant and raving, Thanks to Stern and Solaris once again.

Do you realise that free health care comes at a price? Higher taxes of course, which is almost too much to bear because of the already high tax rate that it is almost impossible to pay, and I have lived here all my life. I can't bear the thought of moving out of New York, because I love it here. So much diversity, New York is a mix of ethnic groups, which is different compared to most states.


P.S: I love my avatar!

 

[jondy]

You got to love it when this was just a thread about a boy dies from a toothache, then it turns into a bloody 'evil US' and liberal elitist rant and raving, Thanks to Stern and Solaris once again.

Do you realise that free health care comes at a price? Higher taxes of course, which is almost too much to bear because of the already high tax rate that it is almost impossible to pay, and I have lived here all my life.

No one's saying it doesn't come at a price. Hell, anyone calling it 'free healthcare' deserves a punt in the crotch, universal healthcare is what we're talking about.

Market-regulated healthcare comes at a price, too - the price of millions of people without insurance getting sick, the price of businesses losing millions of man-hours over sickness, the price of inflated margins and drug patents forcing premiums up. America is the only developed country without a form of socialised healthcare, and it'll pay that price, watching county hospitals go under and markets squeeze people out of HMO's through unaffordable premiums, until the system changes.

 

[CptStern]

damit stern, you can't just make a post that argues your point without breaking up the the whole thing into quotes? You know that only leads to quote wars and that you'll always win simply by virtue of attrition mister posts all damn day.

no the point of splitting up and replying to everything a person says is so that they dont try to backpedal their way out of a statement they might have made ..it directly adresses that person's points rather than the entire thing at once ...it's effective not so much because I can continue the argument but rather because it forces them to be directly accountable for every statement they make. You yourself wiggled your way out of a few statements you made ,,I'm not going to rehash the same points again in the hopes you'll directly answer them so I'll just move on to your latest points

1.The US is not the only place with an illegal immigration problem, but someone in kansas doesn't have to deal with its immediate results, and Canada isn't being flooded by rednecks is it? I hear Europe is having a big problem with illegal immigration over there.

well that's pretty much self evident because nothing stands out more than an illegal in a rural area ..but I get your point however much it doesnt pertain to your first statements

2 & 3 Are you kidding me? CA politicians practically bend over backwards to keep illegals happy for fear of displeasing latino voting groups.

how

As for the benifits they get?

yes I asked you to name one

A lot of it comes down to reaping the benefits of social programs ment for legal residents without paying taxes themselves like welfare.

so how is that giving them benefits? how is it the politicians fault that some of them use criminality to recieve social assistance ..that's like blaming the US treasurey because people rob banks

4. I mean that Cubans have not become a burden on Florida and we have a harder time getting here.

so you're saying that if it were easier for cubans to come to america it might become a problem?

5. Mexican ain't a race. Are you a racist for not liking americans?

I specifically said you dont like mexicans I said nothing about race

6.7.8. Yeah i primarily mentioned mexicans because its not an influx of south africans or russians coming up from mexico, now is it? And yeah, the primary problem with illegal mexicans is because there's so damn many. If all of a sudden shitloads of people in the northern US decided to just cross into canada like they owned the place, wouldn't you be complaining about the incoming Americans?

I have but no one ever listens to stern

9. Hell yes my country. I was born here, i grew up here, and i'll probably die here. I'm just as American as anyone else here.

yet these people are not as american as you are

Besides Cubans do not generally ask for handouts and for the most part are more interested in embracing american culture than our mexican cousins.

10.11. Yes, there are. One of the problems quickly becoming apparent is that through a combination of stubborness on part of the immigrants and molly coddling on part of the government you end up with people recreating their own mini country which isn't so much a problem in and of itself, because its natural that it'll happen. But what happens is that all too often you end up with a mentality of seperation and that screws you over in the long run. Go ask france.

wtf are you talking about? canada is the most multicultural country in the world and we dont have nowhere near the social problems that you americans seem to have ..and do you really blame latinos for banding together in response to a sea of ever growing racism/xenophobia towards anything or anyone that even remotely promotes anything other than american nationalism ..KKK membership is up for the first time since the freaking 60's but now it's toward your kind ..do you think they care whether you're cuban or mexican? same shade of brown as far as they're concerned. How long before "dirty illegal" becomes "dirty latino"?