True intelligence versus faked.

Dr Issac Kleiner

Dr Issac Kleiner

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True intelligence is where you figure out things on your own. True intelligence is something Albert Einstein did, when he has no schooling, and yet accomplished all he did.

Today's IQ tests are glorified contests, made to see who can repeat these 'intelligent' things the most. And who repeats them the most is the most intelligent, hum?

Please.

What are we, parakeets? Are we intelligent because we can repeat and remember what someone else told us and then use it?

Or are we intelligent because it is born with us and we can go and figure things out that other people can't?

I'll leave you to think that one over.
 
I think this post is a cleverly disguised Cheese VS Pie debate.
 
Dr Issac Kleiner said:
True intelligence is something Albert Einstein did, when he has no schooling, and yet accomplished all he did.
Click to expand...

Albert Einstein did have schooling, but from what I know he got horrible grades in both maths and physics.
 
Most 'real' IQ tests are along the lines of "What symbol comes next". They actually test intelligence, because the answer isn't about remembering an answer you've already been taught, but figuring out from the clues given what the solution is.
 
....IQ tests don't really ask about information. They give you shapes and make you rotate them in your head, or give you complex sounding problems that are actually quite simple to figure out. You could do an IQ test after you passed 4th grade.
 
Dr Issac Kleiner said:
True intelligence is where you figure out things on your own. True intelligence is something Albert Einstein did, when he has no schooling, and yet accomplished all he did.

Today's IQ tests are glorified contests, made to see who can repeat these 'intelligent' things the most. And who repeats them the most is the most intelligent, hum?

Please.

What are we, parakeets? Are we intelligent because we can repeat and remember what someone else told us and then use it?

Or are we intelligent because it is born with us and we can go and figure things out that other people can't?

I'll leave you to think that one over.
Click to expand...
I don't think you have a proper understanding of IQ test.
Have you ever taken one?
 
Dr Issac Kleiner said:
True intelligence is where you figure out things on your own. True intelligence is something Albert Einstein did, when he has no schooling, and yet accomplished all he did.

Today's IQ tests are glorified contests, made to see who can repeat these 'intelligent' things the most. And who repeats them the most is the most intelligent, hum?

Please.

What are we, parakeets? Are we intelligent because we can repeat and remember what someone else told us and then use it?

Or are we intelligent because it is born with us and we can go and figure things out that other people can't?

I'll leave you to think that one over.
Click to expand...
Faked.
 
....

Your taking what you know to make those shapes, and those mathmatics, even the verbal part...

So how exactly is it intelligence to simply be repeating what you know like a parakeet?

And yes, I've taken an IQ test, the mathematics part is slightly interesting, i'll give you that, but the verbal part is a glorified parakeet simulator.

I fail to see how repeating what people have learned like parakeets is going to help them in life. It does help them become better conformists zombies, but thats a different argument in itself.........
 
I think what we learn in school/high school, like regurgitation through unique questions (i.e. formula memorisation) is just teaching us about general skills. If you decide to take something further, then you get a better insight and it then becomes more about your personal knowledge and understanding of the given subject.
And then if you go even further and want to do a thesis on something, then you're usually investigating an entirely new concept to do with your field of study.
 
Remus said:
Albert Einstein did have schooling, but from what I know he got horrible grades in both maths and physics.
Click to expand...

A myth, he got perfect grades in those, the misunderstanding came from someone who wrote a biography about him but misunderstood the german grading system.

Dont forget that Einstein said this though: "Imagination is more important then knowledge"
 
Well if their teaching you general skills, why call it 'intelligence'?

That's what I don't get... Why call intelligence, simply what people can remember?

So basically if I memorized the entire IQ test and scored the highest score, would I be the most intelligent person in the world?

Thats the point of this topic, you can't view intelligence by parakeets who remember things by what they are taught.
 
Dr Issac Kleiner said:
Well if their teaching you general skills, why call it 'intelligence'?

That's what I don't get... Why call intelligence, simply what people can remember?

So basically if I memorized the entire IQ test and scored the highest score, would I be the most intelligent person in the world?

Thats the point of this topic, you can't view intelligence by parakeets who remember things by what they are taught.
Click to expand...

That's not what happens in an IQ test. And besides, the whole notion of 'intelligence' is pretty vague anyway.
 
I know it's not totally what happens in an IQ test. But still, an IQ test CAN be memorized. It's STILL based on what you know, to a degree.

If you were to take it enough times, and had a good memory, you could memorize it.

But this isn't about cheating the system, this is about the system itself.

If it was completely random or something (The Iq test), and based on things you had to figure out on your own, I'd applaud whoever made it.
 
Solaris said:
That's not what happens in an IQ test. And besides, the whole notion of 'intelligence' is pretty vague anyway.
Click to expand...

IQ tests are not about testing knowledge, they are about seeing logical patterns. You should never do the same IQ test more then once or the purpose is defeated. Although your IQ only represents intelligence if you define intelligence as logical ability.
 
Ah, finally someone who understands.

But the main problem with testing for logical ability is, the average joe accounts IQ for how 'intelligent' you are.

You could've simply memorized the IQ test, but they'll think you are a genius.

The IQ tests I've taken, simply tested what I took in 10-12 grade. They were, by all means, testing what I knew, not what I was capable of.
 
I originally thought that this thread was going to about machine intelligence. Now there's something interesting. Can a machine ever be truly intelligent? I say yes. After all what is the human brain? If there's neither soul, nor a "magic spark" then a human is just a biological machine. What make us who we are is then down to chemical and physical processes. The key to making a synthetic intelligence (not an Artificial Intelligence because it's an oxymoron, "artificial" would it be just appearing intelligent) is first understanding how the human brain works, so in fact the progress of synthetic intelligence is being held up by neuroscience. Once we understand that we can then look at actually creating intelligent machines. I'm almost certain we'll figure out all of the mysteries of the human brain one day. Simply duplicating the human brain I don’t believe will work, just as plane’s today don’t much look like birds, we had to understand how birds actually flew before we could create working planes. As with that we’ll need to actually know how consciousness and self-awareness manifests itself in the brain before we can create conscious robots.

Oh well, sorry to de-rail the thread, but hearing someone bitch about I.Q. tests isn't that interesting. Yes, they're not perfect, no one ever claimed they were perfect. The problem lies in the fact that they're the best method we currently have available to us for judging someone's cognative abilities.
 
If there's neither soul, nor a "magic spark" then a human is just a biological machine.
Click to expand...

i agree with your reasoning, but that's a big if.
 
It seems to me that a lot of people who don't think IQ tests work also happen to find said tests incredibly easy. Maybe you're just, you know, smart? There are a LOT of people who fail a number of questions, you just happen to not be one of them.
 
Dr Issac Kleiner said:
I know it's not totally what happens in an IQ test. But still, an IQ test CAN be memorized. It's STILL based on what you know, to a degree.

If you were to take it enough times, and had a good memory, you could memorize it.

But this isn't about cheating the system, this is about the system itself.

If it was completely random or something (The Iq test), and based on things you had to figure out on your own, I'd applaud whoever made it.
Click to expand...
It's only flawed if you've cheated?
 
I took one test one day back in high school, got like 140 or something.

I'm not intelligent at all, it lied.
 
Cheesecake is not pie. It just isn't. If it were, it would be called cheesepie.
 
Kleiner your not making any sense at all, off course an IQ test score is not valid if you took the same test multiple times, off course it becomes a test of a memory then, that still doesn't invalidate IQ test in any way. The first time you take a particular test it does what it's supposed to do, and doing multiple test is no problem as long as they have different questions.
 
I'm intelligent. I failed half of my maths, just like Einstein
 
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